Optima ExtendAir Duration Experiences?

jiseson · 2nd April 2008, 11:51

I use mine per manufacturers' guidlines-Mark D taught me an important rule-DON'T BE A CHEAP DIVER! as stated here $30! buy less beer -. same with regulal sorb-guys push their use -this is cutting down on safety margins!

Tienuts · 2nd April 2008, 14:15

Quote: (Originally Posted by diverreb)

Guys, I hate to rain on your parade here, but you are really pushing it.

I spent a while with Micropore at DEMA and talked to them about the method you are using to determine used scrubber. While it is a very rough guide, you can't base your usage on it. The line which divides the good from the bad can't be accurately determined. When you are down to the last quarter of the EAC it's basically done. They can never be used 100%.

Richie -

First I think you are confused about how some are measuring these. I can speak for Dsix36 and myself and say that we consider an EAC 100% used when the reaction front has reached 3/4 of the cannister. This leaves 1/4 as our safety margin. I have also said on these forums though, that measuring the reaction front is one of several means we use to measure the life of the EAC.

I also think Micropore says what they do for litigation purposes. They can't as a responsible company endorse anything like that. Can you imagine the lawsuit?

Some divers are very comfortable pushing the limits to test the technology and see what their limits are and the limits of the machine is. They are comfortable incurring a greater amount of personal risk to make the sport better/safer. Let's face it - we learn a great deal from the likes of a Shek Exsley, and if it weren't' for pioneers like that - we would still be diving air to 60 feet.

There is very little real world data on the EAC. While I am not suicidal - I have a great zest for life and no desire to die, I am willing to incur a bit more risk to test my own personal limits of the EAC.

Some choose to dive conservatively, and that's fine too

jkaterenchuk · 2nd April 2008, 14:54

Quote: (Originally Posted by Tienuts)

Let's face it - we learn a great deal from the likes of a Shek Exsley, and if it weren't' for pioneers like that - we would still be diving air to 60 feet.

Guess we did not learn how to spell his name........Sheck Exley

Could not resist.

Sorry, John

edasque · 2nd April 2008, 17:44

I used an EAC a day for the two diving days in Florida and I can tell you I was pretty close, probably around 66% used. That's 4 dives a day for up to 3 hours. Some of those dives required a bit of swimming and efforts (to get back on the boat after getting lost

)

Strangely, both sides of the unrolled EAC were hardened as opposed to earlier unrolling which seemed to be only on one side (when using 20% of the scrubber).

***ScubaDadMiami*** · 3rd April 2008, 03:04

There are two ways that I promised myself I would not die on a CCR:

Pushing the scrubber.
Pushing the batteries.

I am keeping my promise to myself because I am worth it. I think that all of the rest of you are worth it, too. Please do not take chances with relatively inexpensive components; replace them often enough to avoid problems.

**NEDIVER** · 3rd April 2008, 03:36

Quote: (Originally Posted by ScubaDadMiami)

There are two ways that I promised myself I would not die on a CCR:

Pushing the scrubber.
Pushing the batteries.

I am keeping my promise to myself because I am worth it. I think that all of the rest of you are worth it, too. Please do not take chances with relatively inexpensive components; replace them often enough to avoid problems.

Exactly! We own 10K units, I think we can afford these essentials.

It would almost be like buying a high end sports car and putting in wholesale, watered down 85 octane fuel.

It seems like in my short time on the board, this is one thing everyone has agreed on. And if you are an OC diver thinking about CCR, the question of "cost of consumables?" should be a moot point......

just my $.02

silent running · 3rd April 2008, 07:12

Quote: (Originally Posted by NEDIVER)

Exactly! We own 10K units, I think we can afford these essentials.

And if you are an OC diver thinking about CCR, the question of "cost of consumables?" should be a moot point......

just my $.02

Hello N, if you really are a big spender, sure who cares. But for the likes of me, I can't afford the cost and risk of shipping enough EACs and having them arrive in good condition to an airstrip in the South Pacific to do 2 weeks of diving. If I can't bring them with me in the checked baggage, I'm not going to even consider using a CCR that requires 1 EAC per dive day as there's no way to fit even half that much into 2 checked bags for 14 days.

EAC's have some great advantages, but unless the Micropore people are prepared to make a huge investment in world wide distribution and negotiate extensively with customs officials in all the revenue deprived countries with great diving, I can't even consider using a CCR that uses EACs exclusively... -Andy

jiseson · 3rd April 2008, 11:03

Quote: (Originally Posted by silent running)

Hello N, if you really are a big spender, sure who cares. But for the likes of me, I can't afford the cost and risk of shipping enough EACs and having them arrive in good condition to an airstrip in the South Pacific to do 2 weeks of diving. If I can't bring them with me in the checked baggage, I'm not going to even consider using a CCR that requires 1 EAC per dive day as there's no way to fit even half that much into 2 checked bags for 14 days.

EAC's have some great advantages, but unless the Micropore people are prepared to make a huge investment in world wide distribution and negotiate extensively with customs officials in all the revenue deprived countries with great diving, I can't even consider using a CCR that uses EACs exclusively... -Andy

u r missing point of this thread! When prism folks use their scrubber for 6 hrs they are doing the same foolish move! Duh!

jkaterenchuk · 3rd April 2008, 12:25

Quote: (Originally Posted by jiseson)

u r missing point of this thread! When prism folks use their scrubber for 6 hrs they are doing the same foolish move! Duh!

I think Andy knows very well what he is saying and the subject of this thread. I also travel and dive extensively in third world countries. I also dive extensively locally. The issues he outlines is very real and in some case comes down to not diving or like so many others things on the CCR managing the risk.

John

Tienuts · 3rd April 2008, 12:34

Quote: (Originally Posted by jkaterenchuk)

Guess we did not learn how to spell his name........Sheck Exley

Could not resist.

Sorry, John

Spelling is my achilies heel....

2nd April 2008, 11:51	#11 (permalink)
jiseson DSIX/O2PTIMA Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: long island,ny Posts: 454	Re: Optima ExtendAir Duration Experiences? I use mine per manufacturers' guidlines-Mark D taught me an important rule-DON'T BE A CHEAP DIVER! as stated here $30! buy less beer -. same with regulal sorb-guys push their use -this is cutting down on safety margins! __________________ *Jonathan D Iseson*
(Online)

2nd April 2008, 14:15	#12 (permalink)
Tienuts The man from Nantucket Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Fort Lauderdale Posts: 149	Re: Optima ExtendAir Duration Experiences? Quote: (Originally Posted by diverreb) Guys, I hate to rain on your parade here, but you are really pushing it. I spent a while with Micropore at DEMA and talked to them about the method you are using to determine used scrubber. While it is a very rough guide, you can't base your usage on it. The line which divides the good from the bad can't be accurately determined. When you are down to the last quarter of the EAC it's basically done. They can never be used 100%. Richie - First I think you are confused about how some are measuring these. I can speak for Dsix36 and myself and say that we consider an EAC 100% used when the reaction front has reached 3/4 of the cannister. This leaves 1/4 as our safety margin. I have also said on these forums though, that measuring the reaction front is one of several means we use to measure the life of the EAC. I also think Micropore says what they do for litigation purposes. They can't as a responsible company endorse anything like that. Can you imagine the lawsuit? Some divers are very comfortable pushing the limits to test the technology and see what their limits are and the limits of the machine is. They are comfortable incurring a greater amount of personal risk to make the sport better/safer. Let's face it - we learn a great deal from the likes of a Shek Exsley, and if it weren't' for pioneers like that - we would still be diving air to 60 feet. There is very little real world data on the EAC. While I am not suicidal - I have a great zest for life and no desire to die, I am willing to incur a bit more risk to test my own personal limits of the EAC. Some choose to dive conservatively, and that's fine too
(Online)

2nd April 2008, 14:54	#13 (permalink)
jkaterenchuk . Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Megalodon Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2006 Location: Lititz, PA Posts: 651	Re: Optima ExtendAir Duration Experiences? Quote: (Originally Posted by Tienuts) Let's face it - we learn a great deal from the likes of a Shek Exsley, and if it weren't' for pioneers like that - we would still be diving air to 60 feet. Guess we did not learn how to spell his name........Sheck Exley Could not resist. Sorry, John
(Offline)

2nd April 2008, 17:44	#14 (permalink)
edasque Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 210	Re: Optima ExtendAir Duration Experiences? I used an EAC a day for the two diving days in Florida and I can tell you I was pretty close, probably around 66% used. That's 4 dives a day for up to 3 hours. Some of those dives required a bit of swimming and efforts (to get back on the boat after getting lost ) Strangely, both sides of the unrolled EAC were hardened as opposed to earlier unrolling which seemed to be only on one side (when using 20% of the scrubber).
(Offline)

3rd April 2008, 03:04	#15 (permalink)
*ScubaDadMiami* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 1,937	Re: Optima ExtendAir Duration Experiences? There are two ways that I promised myself I would not die on a CCR: Pushing the scrubber. Pushing the batteries. I am keeping my promise to myself because I am worth it. I think that all of the rest of you are worth it, too. Please do not take chances with relatively inexpensive components; replace them often enough to avoid problems. __________________ Howard Packer IANTD CCR Instructor Miami Beach, Florida CCRDiveTraining.com
(Offline)

3rd April 2008, 03:36	#16 (permalink)
NEDIVER Sic Semper Tyrannis Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Nashua, NH Posts: 120	Re: Optima ExtendAir Duration Experiences? Quote: (Originally Posted by ScubaDadMiami) There are two ways that I promised myself I would not die on a CCR: Pushing the scrubber. Pushing the batteries. I am keeping my promise to myself because I am worth it. I think that all of the rest of you are worth it, too. Please do not take chances with relatively inexpensive components; replace them often enough to avoid problems. Exactly! We own 10K units, I think we can afford these essentials. It would almost be like buying a high end sports car and putting in wholesale, watered down 85 octane fuel. It seems like in my short time on the board, this is one thing everyone has agreed on. And if you are an OC diver thinking about CCR, the question of "cost of consumables?" should be a moot point...... just my $.02 __________________ -Tom- "slow is smooth, and smooth is fast" TM "Insanity is repeating the same thing over and over again, expecting different results" Albert Einstein
(Offline)

3rd April 2008, 07:12	#17 (permalink)
silent running Mature mouth breather Current Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: U.S.A. Brooklyn, New York Posts: 1,773	Re: Optima ExtendAir Duration Experiences? Quote: (Originally Posted by NEDIVER) Exactly! We own 10K units, I think we can afford these essentials. And if you are an OC diver thinking about CCR, the question of "cost of consumables?" should be a moot point...... just my $.02 Hello N, if you really are a big spender, sure who cares. But for the likes of me, I can't afford the cost and risk of shipping enough EACs and having them arrive in good condition to an airstrip in the South Pacific to do 2 weeks of diving. If I can't bring them with me in the checked baggage, I'm not going to even consider using a CCR that requires 1 EAC per dive day as there's no way to fit even half that much into 2 checked bags for 14 days. EAC's have some great advantages, but unless the Micropore people are prepared to make a huge investment in world wide distribution and negotiate extensively with customs officials in all the revenue deprived countries with great diving, I can't even consider using a CCR that uses EACs exclusively... -Andy
(Offline)

3rd April 2008, 11:03	#18 (permalink)
jiseson DSIX/O2PTIMA Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: long island,ny Posts: 454	Re: Optima ExtendAir Duration Experiences? Quote: (Originally Posted by silent running) Hello N, if you really are a big spender, sure who cares. But for the likes of me, I can't afford the cost and risk of shipping enough EACs and having them arrive in good condition to an airstrip in the South Pacific to do 2 weeks of diving. If I can't bring them with me in the checked baggage, I'm not going to even consider using a CCR that requires 1 EAC per dive day as there's no way to fit even half that much into 2 checked bags for 14 days. EAC's have some great advantages, but unless the Micropore people are prepared to make a huge investment in world wide distribution and negotiate extensively with customs officials in all the revenue deprived countries with great diving, I can't even consider using a CCR that uses EACs exclusively... -Andy u r missing point of this thread! When prism folks use their scrubber for 6 hrs they are doing the same foolish move! Duh! __________________ *Jonathan D Iseson*
(Online)

3rd April 2008, 12:25	#19 (permalink)
jkaterenchuk . Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Megalodon Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2006 Location: Lititz, PA Posts: 651	Re: Optima ExtendAir Duration Experiences? Quote: (Originally Posted by jiseson) u r missing point of this thread! When prism folks use their scrubber for 6 hrs they are doing the same foolish move! Duh! I think Andy knows very well what he is saying and the subject of this thread. I also travel and dive extensively in third world countries. I also dive extensively locally. The issues he outlines is very real and in some case comes down to not diving or like so many others things on the CCR managing the risk. John
(Offline)

3rd April 2008, 12:34	#20 (permalink)
Tienuts The man from Nantucket Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Fort Lauderdale Posts: 149	Re: Optima ExtendAir Duration Experiences? Quote: (Originally Posted by jkaterenchuk) Guess we did not learn how to spell his name........Sheck Exley Could not resist. Sorry, John Spelling is my achilies heel....
(Online)

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