[trob09]

Quote: (Originally Posted by AD_ward9)

On the recycling, the amount of plastic is tiny: a few percent. It can be buried.

Alex

Uh, that is most definitely not recycling.

[n2diving]

Quote: (Originally Posted by caveseeker7)

Do these many have any suggestion what to do with the used cartridge?
There's some sort of plastic grid in there, isn't it? Receycle? Send it back to Micropore for a refundable deposit?


Meaning you as a retailer ship it globally?
I know my LDS stocks DiveSorb, but surely doesn't have any cartridges.
Just where in Germany can I get them?

The manufacturer says there is less plastic in the absorbent than a water bottle and that the plastic is biodegradable (athough I don't know what the story is with the little tube in the center.) My granular comes in a huge plastic HDPE container that's not recylable (in the US anyway). You can look at environmentally friendly and recylable plastic from many different points of view I suppose... In the US, the issues are unclear enough that many stores offer the choice of 'paper or plastic' bags. This is a complex issue but granular is not clearly more environmentally friendly than the cartridge and the cartridge is not clearly less environmentally friendly than granular.

I would have search long and hard to find a keg of DiveSorb at an LDS in my area, I'm not sure where I could find it in the US, a quick Internet search sure didn't find any US sources. Micropore told me a while back they had a stocking distributor in Europe now and if my memory serves me correctly the distributor was located in... Germany. In the US any Dive Rite dealer that sells O2ptimas has cartridges, and any Dive Rite dealer that doesn't can order them from Dive Rite in small quantities or Micropore in large quantities. Out of curosity I surfed Rebreather World and found a surprising number of people asking where to find this, that or the other brand of absorbent in one or another part of the world.

No brand of absorbent is universally available. I suspect this issue has to do with the fact that most granular rebreather divers have had problems with availability. I'm not aware of anyone with an O2ptima complaining about cartridge availability, they know where to get cartridges just like you know where to get your brand of granular. Might make an interesting survey to see how many rebreather divers have had problems with availability and if some brands have more availability problems than others, wonder if there is anyone around who knows how to setup a survey on Rebreather World

[n2diving]

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave Sutton)

I cannot for the life of me remember the guys name, but he was a Dive Rite guy who has left to go work for Micropore.

He had placed the new one in a plastic bag, all the air sucked out, and had spun the bag to seal it. He placed the "ass" of the bag against the now open cartridge bay, "un-spun" it, and squeezed the cartridge home, closed up the rig, cleared it, and pressed on.

He is Jeff Gorley, I don't think he was actually an employee of Dive Rite, but consulted to direct their marketing program.

I had not thought about leaving it in a plastic bag.... hmmm, this is actually starting to sound viable, in a stupidly dangerous way. I once saw a guy I was diving with while we were on a very long deco stop, pull out a candy bar and eat it. As I was watching my thought was that it was really dangerous and dumb.... a while later on this awful stop I was thinking "I wonder if he has another candy bar..."

[trob09]

Quote: (Originally Posted by n2diving)

The manufacturer says there is less plastic in the absorbent than a water bottle and that the plastic is biodegradable (athough I don't know what the story is with the little tube in the center.) My granular comes in a huge plastic HDPE container that's not recylable (in the US anyway).

Hmmm. The container that holds my sofnolime (that I bought from you, by the way) is recyclable here...

Quote: (Originally Posted by n2diving)

You can look at environmentally friendly and recylable plastic from many different points of view I suppose... In the US, the issues are unclear enough that many stores offer the choice of 'paper or plastic' bags. This is a complex issue but granular is not clearly more environmentally friendly than the cartridge and the cartridge is not clearly less environmentally friendly than granular.

Anecdote will never support "clearly more" or "clearly less"

Quote: (Originally Posted by n2diving)

I would have search long and hard to find a keg of DiveSorb at an LDS in my area, I'm not sure where I could find it in the US, a quick Internet search sure didn't find any US sources. Micropore told me a while back they had a stocking distributor in Europe now and if my memory serves me correctly the distributor was located in... Germany. In the US any Dive Rite dealer that sells O2ptimas has cartridges, and any Dive Rite dealer that doesn't can order them from Dive Rite in small quantities or Micropore in large quantities. Out of curosity I surfed Rebreather World and found a surprising number of people asking where to find this, that or the other brand of absorbent in one or another part of the world.

No brand of absorbent is universally available. I suspect this issue has to do with the fact that most granular rebreather divers have had problems with availability. I'm not aware of anyone with an O2ptima complaining about cartridge availability, they know where to get cartridges just like you know where to get your brand of granular. Might make an interesting survey to see how many rebreather divers have had problems with availability and if some brands have more availability problems than others, wonder if there is anyone around who knows how to setup a survey on Rebreather World

At the end of the day, the point on availability is this:
A meg diver, an inspiration diver and a 'boris diver are going on a trip. They can each use sofnolime, spheresorb, draegersorb, sodasorb, etc. They can share what is locally available and still dive. It may not be optimal for their unit or what the manufacturer recommends, but they can dive. The Optima diver has 1 choice - the cartridge.

[AD_ward9]

Quote: (Originally Posted by trob09)

Uh, that is most definitely not recycling.

Mix it with peat, and it will nicely neutralise the soil. Combat acid rain.

Alex

[decoweenie]

Quote: (Originally Posted by n2diving)

...pull out a candy bar and eat it. As I was watching my thought was that it was really dangerous and dumb...

Eating and drinking u/w is actually very easy to do.

Convince yourself to try it for the first time is the hardest part!

... kinda like skydiving. The hardest part (in the beginning) is leaving the airplane...

[decoweenie]

Quote: (Originally Posted by AD_ward9)

Mix it with peat, and it will nicely neutralise the soil. Combat acid rain.

We mix it with 50+C temperature (i.e. dump in the desert) and it will nicely turn into charcoal very quickly...

[n2diving]

Quote: (Originally Posted by trob09)

The Optima diver has 1 choice - the cartridge.

Ah... different issue... 'sole source'.... I consider the sole source issue a minor concern, most rebreathers contain parts only available from a sole source.

But your point is absolutely true, currently the cartridge is only supplied from a single source. It's a concern, and an opportunity I hope that other absorbent manufacturers are evaluating.

[trob09]

Quote: (Originally Posted by n2diving)

Ah... different issue... 'sole source'.... I consider the sole source issue a minor concern, most rebreathers contain parts only available from a sole source.

But your point is absolutely true, currently the cartridge is only supplied from a single source. It's a concern, and an opportunity I hope that other absorbent manufacturers are evaluating.

Sole source for a component impacts virtually every rebreather. Sole source for a consumable is a greater issue in my opinion in that components are "one time" purchases whereas consumables are repeat purchases. A sole-source approach to consumables encourages price-gouging that is not available in multiple-source scenarios.

Sole source-ness is directly related to availability in that multiple sources for consumables exponentially increases availability.

[n2diving]

[quote=trob09;104953]Hmmm. The container that holds my sofnolime (that I bought from you, by the way) is recyclable here...
[quote]

Recanted. I just went and looked at some containers... my open one a few months old has no recyling icons on it, but it seems my most recent stock order does have a US style recycle loop code 2 icon on it. The new Sofnolime containers are now marked for appropriately for US recycling.