Bizzare FX feature?

n2diving · 21st March 2007, 15:29

Something about the cartridge discussed in another thread got me to thinking... could you change your absorbent underwater?

1) The cartridge tollerates total flood extremely well. So you could certainly allow it to get wet for the time it would take to load it into the scrubber.

2) The new FX design does not require disassembly to change the cartridge.

3) A skill in the full CCR course is doff/don of the rebreather. This is fairly easy with a TransPac harness.

4) A skill in the full CCR course is recovery of a total loop flood. The O2ptima handles clearing a flood this quite well.

So could you... switch to OC bailout, remove the O2ptima from your back, swap out a cartridge, and put the O2ptima back on, clear the water from the loop, and go back on the the rebreather... all underwater? It would of course be even easier if your buddy did the cartridge swap for you, so you would not have to doff/don the rebreather.

What earthly reason would you ever, ever WANT to?

What do you do with the expended cartridge?

-- Mark

tamorgen · 21st March 2007, 16:23

Quote: (Originally Posted by n2diving)

Something about the cartridge discussed in another thread got me to thinking... could you change your absorbent underwater?

1) The cartridge tollerates total flood extremely well. So you could certainly allow it to get wet for the time it would take to load it into the scrubber.

2) The new FX design does not require disassembly to change the cartridge.

3) A skill in the full CCR course is doff/don of the rebreather. This is fairly easy with a TransPac harness.

4) A skill in the full CCR course is recoverly of a total loop flood. The O2ptima handles clearing a flood this quite well.

So could you... switch to OC bailout, remove the O2ptima from your back, swap out a cartridge, and put the O2ptima back on, clear the water from the loop, and go back on the the rebreather... all underwater? It would of course be even easier if your buddy did the cartridge swap for you, so you would not have to doff/don the rebreather.

What earthly reason would you ever, ever WANT to?

What do you do with the expended cartridge?

-- Mark

How would you clear a completely flooded loop?

n2diving · 21st March 2007, 17:33

Quote: (Originally Posted by tamorgen)

How would you clear a completely flooded loop?

Take my course

Seriously, this is taught as a skill in my O2ptima course. The student goes to the bottom of the pool, goes on OC, is told to 'flood the loop as much as you can', then clear the flooded loop. I've never had a student not be able to clear the flood.... some get it flooded more than others because the O2ptima is extremely difficult to flood. Jordan holds the record, I'm pretty sure he got the loop totally flooded... he had to work at it for several minutes, doing acrobatics underwater he looked like he was having a seizure, but he managed to get it pretty well flooded... and he cleared it.

I was thinking about this at lunch, you could actually do it without even flooding the entire loop or even getting the sensors wet if you did this while the unit was laying on it's side with the scrubber canister vertical and the DSV closed.

Hey, I'm just having fun here... as they say on Mythbusters.... Don't try this at home, we're what you call professionals.

DepthCharge · 21st March 2007, 18:21

So...............what do you do about the O2 sensors.............last I knew flooded=shot?

decoweenie · 21st March 2007, 19:12

Quote: (Originally Posted by tamorgen)

How would you clear a completely flooded loop?

Very difficult...

Despite what people say, it is nearly impossible to completely flood a loop intentional in a pool.

I had removed one of the breathing hoses completely off the scrubber inlet to the center-section (of the MK-15) and it still wouldn't flood. At the end, we had to "crack" open the lid to the scrubber which lead to a really funny story (saved for another time).

BTW, we had removed the sensors for this exercise and plumb only O2 (no diluent). All internal connectors were also wrapped with ballons and rubber bands.

n2diving · 21st March 2007, 20:16

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

Very difficult...

Despite what people say, it is nearly impossible to completely flood a loop intentional in a pool.

Agreed! Having watched all my students try... Jordan is the only one I think ever really succeeded in getting a really good flood, not just a few tablespoons in the exhalation hose, and he had to work hard... we poured a few teaspoons of pool water out of the head and he had to do several flood clear procedures to get the loop clear enough to breathe.

As mentioned before.... on the FX, if you were to close the DSV and roll on the divers right side.... the bottom of the lid could be popped off, the cartridge would drop out, a new one inserted and the gas trapped in the canister and head would remain thus keeping the sensors dry....

Hmm... might make an interesting training video to post on April 1st....

-- Mark

SiscoKid · 21st March 2007, 20:46

Quote: (Originally Posted by n2diving)

Something about the cartridge discussed in another thread got me to thinking... could you change your absorbent underwater?

1) The cartridge tollerates total flood extremely well. So you could certainly allow it to get wet for the time it would take to load it into the scrubber.

2) The new FX design does not require disassembly to change the cartridge.

3) A skill in the full CCR course is doff/don of the rebreather. This is fairly easy with a TransPac harness.

4) A skill in the full CCR course is recovery of a total loop flood. The O2ptima handles clearing a flood this quite well.

So could you... switch to OC bailout, remove the O2ptima from your back, swap out a cartridge, and put the O2ptima back on, clear the water from the loop, and go back on the the rebreather... all underwater? It would of course be even easier if your buddy did the cartridge swap for you, so you would not have to doff/don the rebreather.

What earthly reason would you ever, ever WANT to?

What do you do with the expended cartridge?

-- Mark

What is this going to do to your three O2 cells?

***caveseeker7*** · 22nd March 2007, 04:33

Quote: (Originally Posted by SiscoKid)

What is this going to do to your three O2 cells?

Submerge them, a really bright idea.

decoweenie · 22nd March 2007, 05:47

Quote: (Originally Posted by n2diving)

...the bottom of the lid could be popped off, the cartridge would drop out, a new one inserted and the gas trapped in the canister and head would remain thus keeping the sensors dry....

Thanks for that Mark, it is an interesting piece of info...

That means you guys don't need the Cis-hydrophobic-membrane-radial-canister to change your scrubber u/w then...

chucky05 · 22nd March 2007, 05:49

Good Luck.
I had an incident recently when my loop was knocked from my mouth at 25 mts by a decending student

so I went to OC to follow the wayward student to the bottom at 55mts. At which time I can tell you that there was NO WAY I could clear the loop. Now I am here to tell you that I do not know whether I closed the DSV or not, and at 55mts on OC air I was narced and when I looked into the mouthpiece I was unsure if it was open or closed. In my narced state I then operated the DSV (whilst having an out of body experience) thinking WHAT THE F__K AM I DOING?

As soon as I tried to inhail through the loop I got a mild dose of a caustic cocktail; not as bad as I have experienced with sorb but I didn't want to keep breathing on the loop. So after recovering my students and returing to the boat I had about 1 cup full of nasty caustic shit inside the canister which was an absolute mess to clean up. I can say however that all I did was put another cartridge in and I was diving again in a matter of minutes.

21st March 2007, 15:29	#1 (permalink)
n2diving Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 271	Bizzare FX feature? Something about the cartridge discussed in another thread got me to thinking... could you change your absorbent underwater? 1) The cartridge tollerates total flood extremely well. So you could certainly allow it to get wet for the time it would take to load it into the scrubber. 2) The new FX design does not require disassembly to change the cartridge. 3) A skill in the full CCR course is doff/don of the rebreather. This is fairly easy with a TransPac harness. 4) A skill in the full CCR course is recovery of a total loop flood. The O2ptima handles clearing a flood this quite well. So could you... switch to OC bailout, remove the O2ptima from your back, swap out a cartridge, and put the O2ptima back on, clear the water from the loop, and go back on the the rebreather... all underwater? It would of course be even easier if your buddy did the cartridge swap for you, so you would not have to doff/don the rebreather. What earthly reason would you ever, ever WANT to? What do you do with the expended cartridge? -- Mark Last edited by n2diving : 21st March 2007 at 17:34.
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21st March 2007, 16:23	#2 (permalink)
tamorgen Gadget guru extrordinaire Current Rebreather/s: Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Dolphin Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Columbia, MD Posts: 183	Re: Bizzare FX feature? Quote: (Originally Posted by n2diving) Something about the cartridge discussed in another thread got me to thinking... could you change your absorbent underwater? 1) The cartridge tollerates total flood extremely well. So you could certainly allow it to get wet for the time it would take to load it into the scrubber. 2) The new FX design does not require disassembly to change the cartridge. 3) A skill in the full CCR course is doff/don of the rebreather. This is fairly easy with a TransPac harness. 4) A skill in the full CCR course is recoverly of a total loop flood. The O2ptima handles clearing a flood this quite well. So could you... switch to OC bailout, remove the O2ptima from your back, swap out a cartridge, and put the O2ptima back on, clear the water from the loop, and go back on the the rebreather... all underwater? It would of course be even easier if your buddy did the cartridge swap for you, so you would not have to doff/don the rebreather. What earthly reason would you ever, ever WANT to? What do you do with the expended cartridge? -- Mark How would you clear a completely flooded loop?
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21st March 2007, 17:33	#3 (permalink)
n2diving Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 271	Re: Bizzare FX feature? Quote: (Originally Posted by tamorgen) How would you clear a completely flooded loop? Take my course Seriously, this is taught as a skill in my O2ptima course. The student goes to the bottom of the pool, goes on OC, is told to 'flood the loop as much as you can', then clear the flooded loop. I've never had a student not be able to clear the flood.... some get it flooded more than others because the O2ptima is extremely difficult to flood. Jordan holds the record, I'm pretty sure he got the loop totally flooded... he had to work at it for several minutes, doing acrobatics underwater he looked like he was having a seizure, but he managed to get it pretty well flooded... and he cleared it. I was thinking about this at lunch, you could actually do it without even flooding the entire loop or even getting the sensors wet if you did this while the unit was laying on it's side with the scrubber canister vertical and the DSV closed. Hey, I'm just having fun here... as they say on Mythbusters.... Don't try this at home, we're what you call professionals. Last edited by n2diving : 22nd March 2007 at 12:04.
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21st March 2007, 18:21	#4 (permalink)
DepthCharge New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: upstate NY Posts: 229	Re: Bizzare FX feature? So...............what do you do about the O2 sensors.............last I knew flooded=shot? __________________ Later, John It's better to beg forgiveness than ask permission
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21st March 2007, 19:12	#5 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,510	Re: Bizzare FX feature? Quote: (Originally Posted by tamorgen) How would you clear a completely flooded loop? Very difficult... Despite what people say, it is nearly impossible to completely flood a loop intentional in a pool. I had removed one of the breathing hoses completely off the scrubber inlet to the center-section (of the MK-15) and it still wouldn't flood. At the end, we had to "crack" open the lid to the scrubber which lead to a really funny story (saved for another time). BTW, we had removed the sensors for this exercise and plumb only O2 (no diluent). All internal connectors were also wrapped with ballons and rubber bands. __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
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21st March 2007, 20:16	#6 (permalink)
n2diving Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 271	Re: Bizzare FX feature? Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) Very difficult... Despite what people say, it is nearly impossible to completely flood a loop intentional in a pool. Agreed! Having watched all my students try... Jordan is the only one I think ever really succeeded in getting a really good flood, not just a few tablespoons in the exhalation hose, and he had to work hard... we poured a few teaspoons of pool water out of the head and he had to do several flood clear procedures to get the loop clear enough to breathe. As mentioned before.... on the FX, if you were to close the DSV and roll on the divers right side.... the bottom of the lid could be popped off, the cartridge would drop out, a new one inserted and the gas trapped in the canister and head would remain thus keeping the sensors dry.... Hmm... might make an interesting training video to post on April 1st.... -- Mark Last edited by n2diving : 21st March 2007 at 20:30.
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21st March 2007, 20:46	#7 (permalink)
SiscoKid New Member Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Farmersville Texas Posts: 65	Re: Bizzare FX feature? Quote: (Originally Posted by n2diving) Something about the cartridge discussed in another thread got me to thinking... could you change your absorbent underwater? 1) The cartridge tollerates total flood extremely well. So you could certainly allow it to get wet for the time it would take to load it into the scrubber. 2) The new FX design does not require disassembly to change the cartridge. 3) A skill in the full CCR course is doff/don of the rebreather. This is fairly easy with a TransPac harness. 4) A skill in the full CCR course is recovery of a total loop flood. The O2ptima handles clearing a flood this quite well. So could you... switch to OC bailout, remove the O2ptima from your back, swap out a cartridge, and put the O2ptima back on, clear the water from the loop, and go back on the the rebreather... all underwater? It would of course be even easier if your buddy did the cartridge swap for you, so you would not have to doff/don the rebreather. What earthly reason would you ever, ever WANT to? What do you do with the expended cartridge? -- Mark What is this going to do to your three O2 cells?
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22nd March 2007, 04:33	#8 (permalink)
*caveseeker7* Who loves ya, baby Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Too far from Neverland Posts: 5,435	Re: Bizzare FX feature? Quote: (Originally Posted by SiscoKid) What is this going to do to your three O2 cells? Submerge them, a really bright idea. __________________ Cheers Stefan "Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.'!"
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22nd March 2007, 05:47	#9 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,510	Re: Bizzare FX feature? Quote: (Originally Posted by n2diving) ...the bottom of the lid could be popped off, the cartridge would drop out, a new one inserted and the gas trapped in the canister and head would remain thus keeping the sensors dry.... Thanks for that Mark, it is an interesting piece of info... That means you guys don't need the Cis-hydrophobic-membrane-radial-canister to change your scrubber u/w then... __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
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22nd March 2007, 05:49	#10 (permalink)
chucky05 Optima Pilot Current Rebreather/s: Optima Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Dolphin Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 37	Re: Bizzare FX feature? Good Luck. I had an incident recently when my loop was knocked from my mouth at 25 mts by a decending student so I went to OC to follow the wayward student to the bottom at 55mts. At which time I can tell you that there was NO WAY I could clear the loop. Now I am here to tell you that I do not know whether I closed the DSV or not, and at 55mts on OC air I was narced and when I looked into the mouthpiece I was unsure if it was open or closed. In my narced state I then operated the DSV (whilst having an out of body experience) thinking WHAT THE F__K AM I DOING? As soon as I tried to inhail through the loop I got a mild dose of a caustic cocktail; not as bad as I have experienced with sorb but I didn't want to keep breathing on the loop. So after recovering my students and returing to the boat I had about 1 cup full of nasty caustic shit inside the canister which was an absolute mess to clean up. I can say however that all I did was put another cartridge in and I was diving again in a matter of minutes. __________________ John Allsop Optima Pilot from the Land Down Under SSI Instructor Certifier TDI/SDI Instructor
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