Backmount or shoulder mound CL ??

Triton · 26th June 2005, 15:54

Hallo

Does it make a difference if the CL are at the back like a KISS or MK15 or on the front like YBOD ?

I understand that you get 'puffed cheeks' if diver is upside down with a KISS , and doing this is also not recommended with YBOD style CL.Is this only true with a KISS?
What are the pros and cons pls?
I rather have a simple harness than a cluttered chest.

rgds

silentscuba · 26th June 2005, 17:15

I have been diving my KISS Classic for about 8 months now and have learned how to keep loop volume at a minimum which eliminates chipmunk cheeks.

I have found that keeping minimum volume in my loop is very important and makes most of the things that we manage with a CCR rebreather much easier to deal with.

In my opinion, the back mounted CL's on the KISS units are not a negative design.

**wedivebc** · 26th June 2005, 17:34

Quote: (Originally Posted by Triton)

Hallo

Does it make a difference if the CL are at the back like a KISS or MK15 or on the front like YBOD ?

I understand that you get 'puffed cheeks' if diver is upside down with a KISS , and doing this is also not recommended with YBOD style CL.Is this only true with a KISS?
What are the pros and cons pls?
I rather have a simple harness than a cluttered chest.

rgds

Having dove dolphin for a couple of years I found when diving ybod the work of breathing was a breeze due to over shoulder CL. It is definately the way to go. I think the recommendation for staying upright has more to do with the water trap in an inspiration that the CL position. In fact when I was training I was encouraged to do that (go upside down) at the beginning of the dive to experience it but was cautioned I could wet the O2 sensors if I tried it after condesation had accumulated.

decoweenie · 26th June 2005, 18:36

Quote: (Originally Posted by Triton)

I understand that you get 'puffed cheeks' if diver is upside down with a KISS

Why do you think that ?

***caveseeker7*** · 26th June 2005, 18:54

Never tried either KISS, but Dolphin, MK16, YBOD and PRISM.
There are differences between each of them. The MK16 breathes better than the Dolphin, I asume because you don't exhale into a full bag and activate the OPV all the time. Also, the scrubber designs are way different and have part in it.

The PRISM breathes nicer than the YBOD, could be the different scrubber design or different DSV.

But either ots lunged CCR has considerably lower WOB than the backmounted ones. Also, hydrostatic differences when changing position are much almost negligible, while turning on your back with the 16 makes you look lile you're eating its tanks.

The only advantage that the backmounted lungs have is that they're encased and hence protected. And your chest is free of CL and assorted hoses. For diving scenarios (squeezing through caves, handling large camera housings etc) it really is the way to go, but I wouldn't trade in the easy breathing unless there is a good reason.

***Decodiver*** · 26th June 2005, 19:25

The hydrostatic loading on the Mk16 was severe, hence it's refusal by the RN.

IIRC rightly they even videoed the effects to prove this.

Cheers,

Dave Cooper.

Triton · 26th June 2005, 19:28

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

Why do you think that ?

Hi there

Well I simply read it on their website and nobody I know personally has a backmounted CL.

I favour a simple harness for OC, the clutter in front with the Cl is something I have to live with.

rgds

***caveseeker7*** · 26th June 2005, 19:36

Quote: (Originally Posted by Decodiver)

The hydrostatic loading on the Mk16 was severe, hence it's refusal by the RN.

I thought the Royal Navy uses Carleton CCBA (2000 or 2001 model), which has the same layout as the MK16.
Shouldn't the WOB/hydrostatic differences be about the same?

***caveseeker7*** · 26th June 2005, 19:38

Triton, the best I can recommend is try any unit before you buy.
Take an intro with an instructor. Could very well be the WOB of
a unit with rear mounted lungs works just fine for you, and you
can have the unencumbered chest.

Triton · 26th June 2005, 19:50

Quote: (Originally Posted by caveseeker7)

Triton, the best I can recommend is try any unit before you buy.
Take an intro with an instructor. Could very well be the WOB of
a unit with rear mounted lungs works just fine for you, and you
can have the unencumbered chest.

Yes I am looking forward to a try dive

Due to practicality though, i have to buy the YBOD as there are no other brands here and only insp instructors.
Parts are easy to get and AP seems to have a super support.

I could also get a dolphin or azimuth here but dont think that I should tamper with CC conversions until I have gained good experience with off the shelf Rebreather's

rgds

26th June 2005, 15:54	#1 (permalink)
Triton New Member Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Med Posts: 39	Backmount or shoulder mound CL ?? Hallo Does it make a difference if the CL are at the back like a KISS or MK15 or on the front like YBOD ? I understand that you get 'puffed cheeks' if diver is upside down with a KISS , and doing this is also not recommended with YBOD style CL.Is this only true with a KISS? What are the pros and cons pls? I rather have a simple harness than a cluttered chest. rgds
(Offline)

26th June 2005, 17:15	#2 (permalink)
silentscuba rEvo CCR Driver Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss rEvo Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic rEvo Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Mill Creek, WA USA Posts: 590	CL Location I have been diving my KISS Classic for about 8 months now and have learned how to keep loop volume at a minimum which eliminates chipmunk cheeks. I have found that keeping minimum volume in my loop is very important and makes most of the things that we manage with a CCR rebreather much easier to deal with. In my opinion, the back mounted CL's on the KISS units are not a negative design. __________________ Curt McNamee rEvo CCR Diver KISS CCR Diver www.silentscuba.com
(Online)

26th June 2005, 17:34	#3 (permalink)
wedivebc Dave Tomblin Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Vancouver Island BC Canada Posts: 1,447	Quote: (Originally Posted by Triton) Hallo Does it make a difference if the CL are at the back like a KISS or MK15 or on the front like YBOD ? I understand that you get 'puffed cheeks' if diver is upside down with a KISS , and doing this is also not recommended with YBOD style CL.Is this only true with a KISS? What are the pros and cons pls? I rather have a simple harness than a cluttered chest. rgds Having dove dolphin for a couple of years I found when diving ybod the work of breathing was a breeze due to over shoulder CL. It is definately the way to go. I think the recommendation for staying upright has more to do with the water trap in an inspiration that the CL position. In fact when I was training I was encouraged to do that (go upside down) at the beginning of the dive to experience it but was cautioned I could wet the O2 sensors if I tried it after condesation had accumulated. __________________ Cheers, Dave.... Man is the only animal burdened with the knowledge he will eventually die
(Offline)

26th June 2005, 18:36	#4 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,510	Quote: (Originally Posted by Triton) I understand that you get 'puffed cheeks' if diver is upside down with a KISS Why do you think that ?
(Offline)

26th June 2005, 18:54	#5 (permalink)
*caveseeker7* Who loves ya, baby Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Too far from Neverland Posts: 5,494	Never tried either KISS, but Dolphin, MK16, YBOD and PRISM. There are differences between each of them. The MK16 breathes better than the Dolphin, I asume because you don't exhale into a full bag and activate the OPV all the time. Also, the scrubber designs are way different and have part in it. The PRISM breathes nicer than the YBOD, could be the different scrubber design or different DSV. But either ots lunged CCR has considerably lower WOB than the backmounted ones. Also, hydrostatic differences when changing position are much almost negligible, while turning on your back with the 16 makes you look lile you're eating its tanks. The only advantage that the backmounted lungs have is that they're encased and hence protected. And your chest is free of CL and assorted hoses. For diving scenarios (squeezing through caves, handling large camera housings etc) it really is the way to go, but I wouldn't trade in the easy breathing unless there is a good reason. __________________ Cheers Stefan "Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.!"
(Offline)

26th June 2005, 19:25	#6 (permalink)
*Decodiver* Administrator Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Geneva Posts: 2,197	The hydrostatic loading on the Mk16 was severe, hence it's refusal by the RN. IIRC rightly they even videoed the effects to prove this. Cheers, Dave Cooper. __________________ CCR/OC Trimix Instructor Trainer CCR Training to Mixed Gas in Switzerland, France, UK & Germany on Megalodon/COPIS-Megalodon/KISS/Sport KISS/Ouroboros/rEvo/Inspiration/Evolution/Sentinel www.zerogravitydiving.com Rebreather World Terms & Conditions
(Offline)

26th June 2005, 19:28	#7 (permalink)
Triton New Member Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Med Posts: 39	OTS CL vs at the back... Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) Why do you think that ? Hi there Well I simply read it on their website and nobody I know personally has a backmounted CL. I favour a simple harness for OC, the clutter in front with the Cl is something I have to live with. rgds
(Offline)

26th June 2005, 19:36	#8 (permalink)
*caveseeker7* Who loves ya, baby Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Too far from Neverland Posts: 5,494	Quote: (Originally Posted by Decodiver) The hydrostatic loading on the Mk16 was severe, hence it's refusal by the RN. I thought the Royal Navy uses Carleton CCBA (2000 or 2001 model), which has the same layout as the MK16. Shouldn't the WOB/hydrostatic differences be about the same? __________________ Cheers Stefan "Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.!"
(Offline)

26th June 2005, 19:38	#9 (permalink)
*caveseeker7* Who loves ya, baby Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Too far from Neverland Posts: 5,494	Triton, the best I can recommend is try any unit before you buy. Take an intro with an instructor. Could very well be the WOB of a unit with rear mounted lungs works just fine for you, and you can have the unencumbered chest. __________________ Cheers Stefan "Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.!"
(Offline)

26th June 2005, 19:50	#10 (permalink)
Triton New Member Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Med Posts: 39	Practicality Quote: (Originally Posted by caveseeker7) Triton, the best I can recommend is try any unit before you buy. Take an intro with an instructor. Could very well be the WOB of a unit with rear mounted lungs works just fine for you, and you can have the unencumbered chest. Yes I am looking forward to a try dive Due to practicality though, i have to buy the YBOD as there are no other brands here and only insp instructors. Parts are easy to get and AP seems to have a super support. I could also get a dolphin or azimuth here but dont think that I should tamper with CC conversions until I have gained good experience with off the shelf Rebreather's rgds
(Offline)

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