how did you decide?

jepuskar

This question is for all rebreather owners who tried atleast two or more units before deciding on one to purchase/get trained on.

What was the deciding factor in your purchase? All manufacturers present their units with biased approaches on the technologies and how they benefit divers, so someone like myself is curious on what made the deal for you.

..Also....besides being alive today, do you think now that you rational at the time of deciding is as justified today as it was when you purchased the unit?

Thanks

Jason

Scott

I don't fit your requirements, but I hope you don't mind my post..

I have not tried any rebreathers, but I ordered a Copis Meg.. my reasons?

I have no need to dive beyond 200 feet in the near future, so the uncompensated first stage is fine. I have little faith in electronics, especially solenoids, and would prefer to rely on the physics of a leaky valve and manual addition over a solenoid failing open or closed, and having to recover from that.

Ideally.. I would like a leaky valve for continuous addition below metabolic rate, and two solenoids inline so that if one fails open, I'm not in an instant emergency.

I wanted a CCR for the benefits of near constant PO2, and having on hand the ideal nitrox mix for desired depth on a SCR, which would then be a problem if my buddy had a problem and started an uncontrolled descent..

So.. this basically left me between the Jetsam Kiss Classic and Sport, and the ISC Copis Meg.

The Sport Kiss, seemed too inflexible to me.. It would be good for pure recreational.. but could not be used for serious duration.

The Classic Kiss is more adaptable, and a good choice for long term use.

The Copis Meg is most adaptable, and should I ever feel the desire to go *really* deep, I can upgrade to the Apecs head, and have the COPIS head for a backup..

And when it is available.. I will likely buy the ISC Hud.. or an aftermarket HUD.. but first things first... my training in late January with Ron Micjan =)

Take care, best wishes,

Scott

caveseeker7

I tried the Atlantis/Dolphin, the Inspiration, the PRISM and the MK16 with SMI electronics. You can find an article on the experiences in the library.

The only thing the Drägers have going for them is that they're Drägers and look like Drägers. Don't like the operational mode, am not impressed with the build quality or Aqualungs customer service (if you can even call it that).

The Inspo didn't do it for me either, don't like the dual setpoint controllers and lack of independent monitoring. Don't like the ADV. Don't like the T-pieces and attached buzzer, ADV and related hoses and cables. Don't like the DSV. Don't like the battery compartment. Don't particulary care for the solenoid in the loop.

The PRISM appealed to me the most. Smaller and much lighter than the other eCCRs I tried, bit more flexible regarding tanks when on trips, simple, well thought out electronics. No T-pieces. No stuff in the loop that isn't needed there. Excellent scrubber. Excellent WOB.

The MK16 (or better yet a MK15.5) was great, but also large, heavy, with an unsure supply of spares, and last but not least very expensive, even used. But electronics, loop and scrubber were all appealing factors.

Simplicity, availability, price, timing, owner feedback.

I wanted a PRISM but got a Sport Kiss.

The Sport Kiss is simple to maintain, set up and dive. The lack of setpoint controller means that at least it's not an implementation I don't like, no endless buttons, menues and choices to fiddle with. Simple and straight forward.

The unit was immediately available, important as time was an issue for me. I had the coice of two to take with me when moving. Rather than having to wait 4 months and ship it, with all related import expenses.

The price of the unit plus training was less than the PRISM, not bad as the move cost plenty.

Timing was good as Alan Studley was coming to town to train another diver on a Sport Kiss. I had met him briefly before and knew I couldn't ask for better Kiss instructor. Turned out I was correct.

Having met both Gordon who designed the unit, and Kim who runs the company now, as well as feedback from people already owning and diving Jetsam units made me confident that quality of both the unit and customer service was nothing to worry about. So far that turned out to be the case, too.

LOL, yes absolutely. The unit is everything I knew it would be and then some. Dives beautifully, and I'm enjoying it much more than OC.

The only changes I would like to make:
- ss handle for the ss case I have, both for lifting and protecting the red pods
- alu case for travelling
- Shearwater GF for deco with Sub Sea Systems monitor and HUD as secondary

Eventually I will probably still get a PRISM when I find the money and Steam Machines the time and bits to build me one. The Colkan 155 is more than tempting, but still out of my financial reach and with very limited spares supply.

The only other rebreather I've seen lately that I would consider is a COPIS Meg.
Also with a Sub Sea Systems secondary and HUD.
Single display/power source doesn't do it for me.

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Stefan



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Su amigo Roberto!"

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silent running

Hello Jason nice to see you over here at Rebreather World. I dove SCR Dolphin/Atlantis for a couple of years before deciding that they were just as much hassel as a CCR but with much less benefit and had higher WOB than I liked. So I then moved over to the Prism ECCR. I decided on the Prism back in 01' because of it's very low WOB front counter lung radial scrubber design. It was also smaller, lighter and simpler than the Inspo. That was enough. They were the only 2 choices for a front mount CL unit back then.

No regrets at all. For a while, during the first hundred hrs or so of air dil diving, I was a little unhappy that I couldn't change the SP on the electronics underwater and was worrying a bit about managing my OTUs during long liveaboard trips. But, I've learned that I was not really picking the the best SP and don't feel the need to change SP now. In exchange for not being able to change SP on the electronics while underwater, I have the simplest ECCR money can buy and am happy about it after reading about problems found on other more complicated ECCRs. -Andy

dgschott

This question was also posed to me while talking with a friend the other night interested in buying a rebreather, and he was wondering about trying different rebreathers. I bought a Meg, knew that was what I wanted and just did it - without trying.

So far - with about 60 hours on it - I love it - But I think about the first few days of class/training on it. I would honestly not have been able to 'try' different rebreathers and make a decision or differentriate in the positives/negatives of different rerbeathers in the begining. The thing is - you don't know how it's supposed to feel, breath under normal conditions. And if it is the first time in the water with any rebreather, it's not going to feel great. You have to get used to it. Now - after diving a meg for a while - I would be interested in trying a few others to see the differences, knowing that I am diving it correctly, it's set up correctly, and I have more knowledge about rebreather diving in general.

I think, as I stated in the other thread - that if you pick any of the major contenders, you'll be happy. Just get one that will give you the ability to dive the way you want to dive, and with flexibility. I love the Meg, but there are major players out there diving all sorts of different rebreathers, and doing incredible dives on them. I think what it comes down to, it that you'll be happy with anything you learn, get used to, and get to practice on.

Did that make any sense? lol

__________________
David Schott
Liquid Productions, LLC

jepuskar

Thanks for the replies...

As a current seeker I find this part of the process the most interesting....

To date the units I have concentrated on are the Evolution and the Prism. I should be diving each in late January.

The Evolution has the Vision electronics, scrubber monitor, compact size, and would be suited perfectly for the kind of diving I'll be doing on it.

The Prism is also compact, has an independent current driven PO2 monitor which I like.

I'll have the TDI training manual for the Insp/Evolution early next week...this is nice that information available. I have also downloaded the manual from APD's website. Information like this is limited for the Prism.

Unless there are major differences noticed in the pool when I try both out...it could come down to setup time, maintenance, and serviceable parts...

J

mverick

If your interested in looking at a Meg. I have one in the St. Louis area.

Mark Chase

I really wanted a KISS as I didn't fancy my chances with electronics and sea water. My buddy really wanted an Inspiration (Classic at the time). He wanted a UK based company with a strong product.

He was more anti the KISS than i was anti the YBOD so he won.

At that time we dived as a team so we had to have matching kit specifications.

The Meg wasn't really a serious option at that time (2004) but it was available as a new unit. I liked the Prism but it didn't have any advantages over the YBOD and it had to be adapted for full on Trimix CCR so that ruled it out at the time.

Prior to purchasing the YBOD i had dived a KISS Prism and a YBOD

ATB

Mark Chase

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MarkZ

After 2 years of research I purchased an inspiration. I looked at every unit that was available at the time including a few that eventually turned out to be vaporware. I looked at all the pros and cons and actually as my first experience with a YBOD was a recovery it started on the bottom of my list.

I know and appreciate that everybody has a preference to their own babies but:

I looked real closely at the Prism but after seeing the problems the people I know who owed them were having it quickly feel down in my mental ratings. Add to that the regular rumors that the company is going out of business and the fact that Peter is shopping the company every other quarter I stayed away from them. Bottom line I felt the company was not stable, little history with the units, and the unit was not up to snuff quality wise.

The Meg was just being offered and that is scary to me to begin with. The restrictive training availability was another turn off. Certainly the unit has some great features but at the same time it has some real turn offs in my mind not least is the fact that the software has still not been perfected and some early owners have paid a high price for that learning curve. Beyond that there has been issues with calibration and a few other items so I am still taking a wait and see with them. Bottom line is that it is a good unit but again the company is not well established and the unit has a short history. I know I will pay for these feelings in flames.

The Rebreather-80 was another unit that I looked closely at. To be honest, I could not get a straight answer out of the great "H" and I was really questioning why the price was so high compared to similar units being offered in other countries. Again restrictive training came to be an issue.

I also looked at the MK's, CCR1000 and a few others along those lines and while they all had extensive history I was very concerned about the availability of parts as the guys that I know who owned them either had boxes of spares that they traded their 1st born children for or were making their own parts. Even KJ cannot promise an endless supply. Add to all of this a limited number of people who can train on the units, the high initial price assuming you can even find one and the fact that the ball tanks are as hard as hen's teeth to replace I looked elsewhere.

The manual units even with various addition valves were never really considered. To be perfectly honest I cannot understand the reasoning behind spending all the money on a unit that is adding more tasks. Other people I am sure disagree so I will let it at different strokes for different folks. For me more trouble then they are worth.

While they were not available when I was making my purchase I have seen and know people who dive the Optima and Boris. With the Optima, I like KJ's new electronics which appear to be just about perfected. I have little respect for the EAC's. starting with the price and the fact that despite all the hype they simple do not perform as well. Silent diving did a side by side with them and the AP scrubber and the performance was such that if you notice Extendair is not offering conversion packages any longer. Enough said and spare me the hype about the WOB. The Boris is a work in progress and has a lot of great features but at 15,000 US I would like to at least hear one person say that they don't have problems with them.

In addition there are a number of other units I looked at which all bring me back to my final decision, the Inspiration. Both the unit and the company have a history that is stable. There are about 10 times as many of the units out in the field as all others combined. As simple as that last statement is it is important. The majority of the most experienced divers on earth choose this unit by more then 10 to 1 over all others. In my mind there had to be a reason for this. The simple fact is that with this kind of user base problems can be identified sooner and corrections can be made more quickly. Parts are easy to buy, and any number of aftermarket modifications can be acquired to suit any diving need. Are there things about the unit that I do not feel are up to snuff, absolutely. Have there been instances of AP not satisfying every customer 100% of the time, of course. Do I think that the repair prices are bordering on the outrageous, OOOOH Yes. Do I think that there are problems that AP should be taking care of that they seem to be shying away from, I do. Have I seen any other company that does not have at least as many or more issues with their units, I have not. Have I seen any other company with the level of facilty as AP works from, not even close. Are there any other units available that have near the operating history, again no. AP despite the rumblings still sell more units per month then all others combined and there is a reason for this. The units may not be perfect for everybody but I have not seen anything out there that is better. AP may have pissed off some people but all and all their customer service is exceptional and leave most happy. Bottom line again, the Inspo's have issues just it seems to me to be less then any other being sold.

caveseeker7

I'm not even gonna comment on that first part, but you can use helium (trimix or heliox) in a PRISM without modification. By the way, Mark, did you feel the need to modify your Inspiration in any way?

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Stefan



"It is still a good day if you are on the green side of the grass!

Su amigo Roberto!"

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