Noob ?: Rebreather Costs Besides Unit

carlthecat · 7th December 2006, 15:13

Hello all. I am a OC diver looking into rebreathers since I am sick of jumping in the water with double steel 130s and 2 sling deco cylinders. I have been reading up on various models and like the Inspiration Vision the best so far. I like the electronics and HUD. I am not completely sold on the Inspiration, but I want to use it for bugetary estimating how much a rebreather will cost me. I figure next december after my bonus and incoming tax return, I can make a rebreather a reality. By the way, does anyone know how long the waiting list is for an Inspiration Vision? That may affect my ordering date.

I am looking for the complete equipment and training costs to own a rebreather minus absorbent and unit (loaded inspiration vision $9899). I am looking for training cost, additional equipment cost, upgrades/modification costs, and anything else that I dont know about.

- Inspiration Vision $9,899
(includesHUD, ADV, Nitrox & Trimix Software, Scrubber Life Monitor Temp-Stick)

Thanks for all your help.

Carl the Cat

**PhilSiswick** · 7th December 2006, 15:32

Quote: (Originally Posted by carlthecat)

Hello all. I am a OC diver looking into rebreathers since I am sick of jumping in the water with double steel 130s and 2 sling deco cylinders. I have been reading up on various models and like the Inspiration Vision the best so far. I like the electronics and HUD. I am not completely sold on the Inspiration, but I want to use it for bugetary estimating how much a rebreather will cost me. I figure next december after my bonus and incoming tax return, I can make a rebreather a reality. By the way, does anyone know how long the waiting list is for an Inspiration Vision? That may affect my ordering date.

Depending on who your instructor is, I was quoted anywhere from 4 weeks to 13 months. It may be different in the US, as you are ordering via a distributor, rather than (via your instructor) direct from APD

Quote:

I am looking for the complete equipment and training costs to own a rebreather minus absorbent and unit (loaded inspiration vision $9899). I am looking for training cost, additional equipment cost, upgrades/modification costs, and anything else that I dont know about.

Quote:

- Inspiration Vision $9,899
(includesHUD, ADV, Nitrox & Trimix Software, Scrubber Life Monitor Temp-Stick)

Thanks for all your help.

Carl the Cat

Other items:

- Training (depends on exactly what you do, with whom)
- Gas, boat fees, lime etc for the course (depends on where and with whom you do it)
- Travel and accommodation for the course (depends where you do it)
- Spares and consumables (up to you)
- Other bits you'll immediately realise you need (really depends on your diving, what you have now and how you feel you'll dive the unit)

It looks like you already have the rest of the diving kit, so that's fine.

I can't give you prices, as you ask for, given the variables above. Suffice to say that I'm around 2,000 GBP (4,000 USD or thereabouts at the current, wonderful for us, exchange rate :-) over the purchase price of the unit. Most of that was training (Mod 1 and ART), spares and consumables, with a few extra toys (Travelframe, new backplate/harness etc). And I'm only 9 hours in ;-)

Good luck,

Phil

**Gill Envy** · 7th December 2006, 17:31

I've got my overall per hour running cost down below the cost of diving regular old nitrox. I buy sorb in bulk, buy o2 in bulk and trans fill, buy batteries in bulk from a trusted source. By purchasing in bulk I am more likely to err on the side of caution with the sorb and batteries.

we (my wife and I) went through a local shop for the purchase, a shop that already had them (our evolutions) on order...there was practically no waiting time. look around the board and call around in your area, chances are instructors might just have a lead on one as soon as you need it if you train with them.

the cost of training was about $1200, we baught extra oxygen and dilluent tanks: $250 each x 2 = 500. Aluminum 40 bail out bottles were $140 each. Bail out bottle rigging: $60 each. Got our old oc tanks oxygen/nitrox cleaned for trans filling oxygen/dilluent = $30 each. getting an 80 full of o2 is about $10 here (actually it’s $10 weather you are filling a 13cf/19/cf or 80). From what i can tell the cost of a fill is more about the liability and the time involved than the actual amount of oxygen. If you get the proper training on how to deal with oxygen safely (fill rates, cleaning and such), the best thing to do is purchase larger quantities at a time and do trans filling to your 19's yourself, nice and slow when you have the time to read a book. The cost of the trans fill whip was about $250.

also, because the valves on the bottles are AP’s and proprietary and therfore so expensive, i purchased XS SCUBA STAINLESS STEEL DIN VALVE PLUGS to protect the valve from denting, And because they have an o-ring on the end, they also can help prevent oxygen from leaking and concentrating in places like my car's trunk or closet (you don't want o2 to concentrate in an enclosed space because it is such an amazing catalyst for combustion). they are about $15 a piece.

dust caps are a good idea for the dilluent and o2 first stages an... about $10 a piece.

For the fill tanks i purchased Thermo din Valves with the yoke insert (aprox $50 x 2 tanks). The ability to go back and forth with din and yoke is very handy in remote places where you just never know when you will be purchasing from a shop that can't put it's hands on an adaptor. My bail out have this too.

Once i get into deco diving, i will be adding a color screen vr3, which i think runs about $1,500. (ex: Delta P Technology VR3 Dive Computer)

batteries for the vision: I purchase them from circuit city, on line for 1/4 of what the same battery sells for in store...i still marvel at that. Until recently it seemed that the only battery that really worked well with the vision electronics (which, like any thorough bread, is finicky about what it's fed) was the fijitsu CRP-2. Now it turns out that the duracell ultra CRP2 or also called the 223 has the needed decay characteristics for smooth sailing as well. No more timing issues!!! even on an old version of the software! You can get a deal on these batteries, usually about $20 a piece, but on line are more like $6 a piece. Make sure they are still factory sealed. Expiration date is also important, they are made about 10 years before the expiration date, best to purchase them within the first few years of manufacturing. In general, they tend to last about 17-20 hours with a safe margin when flying on automatic injection. best to swap them out before they get low...waiting for the electronics to switch to the back up (B2) can cause timing issues that resolve themselves but not worth the bother or the nervousness of having a bogus cns alarm go off mid dive or get hit with a bogus missed deco warning.

sodasorb seems to work just fine for the diving i do and is much less expensive than safnolyme at this point...though i keep hearing that is going to change

.

all told, not including o2, dilluent or sorb, I spent about $2,500 over the price of the unit to get set up…add about $1,500 for a VR3 and that would be $4,000.

hope that helps.

Ben Field · 8th December 2006, 11:45

Quote: (Originally Posted by PhilSiswick)

Suffice to say that I'm around 2,000 GBP (4,000 USD or thereabouts at the current, wonderful for us, exchange rate :-) over the purchase price of the unit. Most of that was training (Mod 1 and ART), spares and consumables, with a few extra toys (Travelframe, new backplate/harness etc). And I'm only 9 hours in ;-)

True, it does all add up..... but check his sig... Says it all.

(Water Soluable Kit Diver- Buys a new toy after each and ever trip if not dive!)

Ashtray full? That'll be a new car then!

**PhilSiswick** · 8th December 2006, 12:24

Quote: (Originally Posted by Ben Field)

True, it does all add up..... but check his sig... Says it all.

(Water Soluable Kit Diver- Buys a new toy after each and ever trip if not dive!)

Ashtray full? That'll be a new car then!

Hmmm, I think you're racing me to that title. I make that two units and two computers in 12 months ;-)

Anyway, I've moved on from changing cars when the ashtray is full now that I have to pay for them. Now, I just change them when they need an MOT and/or the warranty has run out! Wonders... How long is the warranty on an Inspo ;-)

Cheers,

Ben Field · 8th December 2006, 14:50

Quote: (Originally Posted by PhilSiswick)

Hmmm, I think you're racing me to that title. I make that two units and two computers in 12 months ;-)

Yeah but upgrading doesn't count.....

onetime · 8th December 2006, 14:53

I'd say $4k is a reasonable estimate but can go up a bit more if you start adding in some things that will make life more convenient. Things like O2 banks, boosters, etc.

I think all told, I'm about $8k into it beyond the unit but I never bothered with computers like the VR3 or other CC compatibles.

There are some other little things that you don't really think of as being "Rebreather costs" like I've gone through about 10 masks trying to find one that fits properly with my DSV. The masks I had were perfect for OC but going CC, probably the DSV weight, I needed to try new things. I've played around with all sorts of bits and pieces trying to get the weighting and positioning of the unit just right so add in for some miscellaneous fasteners and even a new frame.

If you can't afford to spend almost the cost of a new CCR in the year or two after going CC you might want to rethink it. Of course, depending on your diving, you can sell off some of the OC gear to cover it.

decoweenie · 8th December 2006, 15:03

Quote: (Originally Posted by Ben Field)

Yeah but upgrading doesn't count.....

Yeh right, you will always be "up grading". Trust me!

7th December 2006, 15:13	#1 (permalink)
carlthecat New Member Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: May 2006 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 2	Noob ?: Rebreather Costs Besides Unit Hello all. I am a OC diver looking into rebreathers since I am sick of jumping in the water with double steel 130s and 2 sling deco cylinders. I have been reading up on various models and like the Inspiration Vision the best so far. I like the electronics and HUD. I am not completely sold on the Inspiration, but I want to use it for bugetary estimating how much a rebreather will cost me. I figure next december after my bonus and incoming tax return, I can make a rebreather a reality. By the way, does anyone know how long the waiting list is for an Inspiration Vision? That may affect my ordering date. I am looking for the complete equipment and training costs to own a rebreather minus absorbent and unit (loaded inspiration vision $9899). I am looking for training cost, additional equipment cost, upgrades/modification costs, and anything else that I dont know about. - Inspiration Vision $9,899 (includesHUD, ADV, Nitrox & Trimix Software, Scrubber Life Monitor Temp-Stick) Thanks for all your help. Carl the Cat
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7th December 2006, 15:32	#2 (permalink)
PhilSiswick Phil Siswick, Tango Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 988	Re: Noob ?: Rebreather Costs Besides Unit Quote: (Originally Posted by carlthecat) Hello all. I am a OC diver looking into rebreathers since I am sick of jumping in the water with double steel 130s and 2 sling deco cylinders. I have been reading up on various models and like the Inspiration Vision the best so far. I like the electronics and HUD. I am not completely sold on the Inspiration, but I want to use it for bugetary estimating how much a rebreather will cost me. I figure next december after my bonus and incoming tax return, I can make a rebreather a reality. By the way, does anyone know how long the waiting list is for an Inspiration Vision? That may affect my ordering date. Depending on who your instructor is, I was quoted anywhere from 4 weeks to 13 months. It may be different in the US, as you are ordering via a distributor, rather than (via your instructor) direct from APD Quote: I am looking for the complete equipment and training costs to own a rebreather minus absorbent and unit (loaded inspiration vision $9899). I am looking for training cost, additional equipment cost, upgrades/modification costs, and anything else that I dont know about. Quote: - Inspiration Vision $9,899 (includesHUD, ADV, Nitrox & Trimix Software, Scrubber Life Monitor Temp-Stick) Thanks for all your help. Carl the Cat Other items: - Training (depends on exactly what you do, with whom) - Gas, boat fees, lime etc for the course (depends on where and with whom you do it) - Travel and accommodation for the course (depends where you do it) - Spares and consumables (up to you) - Other bits you'll immediately realise you need (really depends on your diving, what you have now and how you feel you'll dive the unit) It looks like you already have the rest of the diving kit, so that's fine. I can't give you prices, as you ask for, given the variables above. Suffice to say that I'm around 2,000 GBP (4,000 USD or thereabouts at the current, wonderful for us, exchange rate :-) over the purchase price of the unit. Most of that was training (Mod 1 and ART), spares and consumables, with a few extra toys (Travelframe, new backplate/harness etc). And I'm only 9 hours in ;-) Good luck, Phil __________________ Phil (WSKD 0001) I have always felt that the dive I am on is not nearly important as the dives I plan to be on the rest of my life. Tom Rose, 2007 The person who gets the farthest is generally the one who is willing to do and dare. The sure thing boat never gets far from shore. Charles A. Lindbergh www.hugsac.org.uk
(Offline)

7th December 2006, 17:31	#3 (permalink)
Gill Envy Shearwater Copis Divers Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Evolution Other CCR Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: seattle Posts: 1,326	Re: Noob ?: Rebreather Costs Besides Unit I've got my overall per hour running cost down below the cost of diving regular old nitrox. I buy sorb in bulk, buy o2 in bulk and trans fill, buy batteries in bulk from a trusted source. By purchasing in bulk I am more likely to err on the side of caution with the sorb and batteries. we (my wife and I) went through a local shop for the purchase, a shop that already had them (our evolutions) on order...there was practically no waiting time. look around the board and call around in your area, chances are instructors might just have a lead on one as soon as you need it if you train with them. the cost of training was about $1200, we baught extra oxygen and dilluent tanks: $250 each x 2 = 500. Aluminum 40 bail out bottles were $140 each. Bail out bottle rigging: $60 each. Got our old oc tanks oxygen/nitrox cleaned for trans filling oxygen/dilluent = $30 each. getting an 80 full of o2 is about $10 here (actually it’s $10 weather you are filling a 13cf/19/cf or 80). From what i can tell the cost of a fill is more about the liability and the time involved than the actual amount of oxygen. If you get the proper training on how to deal with oxygen safely (fill rates, cleaning and such), the best thing to do is purchase larger quantities at a time and do trans filling to your 19's yourself, nice and slow when you have the time to read a book. The cost of the trans fill whip was about $250. also, because the valves on the bottles are AP’s and proprietary and therfore so expensive, i purchased XS SCUBA STAINLESS STEEL DIN VALVE PLUGS to protect the valve from denting, And because they have an o-ring on the end, they also can help prevent oxygen from leaking and concentrating in places like my car's trunk or closet (you don't want o2 to concentrate in an enclosed space because it is such an amazing catalyst for combustion). they are about $15 a piece. dust caps are a good idea for the dilluent and o2 first stages an... about $10 a piece. For the fill tanks i purchased Thermo din Valves with the yoke insert (aprox $50 x 2 tanks). The ability to go back and forth with din and yoke is very handy in remote places where you just never know when you will be purchasing from a shop that can't put it's hands on an adaptor. My bail out have this too. Once i get into deco diving, i will be adding a color screen vr3, which i think runs about $1,500. (ex: Delta P Technology VR3 Dive Computer) batteries for the vision: I purchase them from circuit city, on line for 1/4 of what the same battery sells for in store...i still marvel at that. Until recently it seemed that the only battery that really worked well with the vision electronics (which, like any thorough bread, is finicky about what it's fed) was the fijitsu CRP-2. Now it turns out that the duracell ultra CRP2 or also called the 223 has the needed decay characteristics for smooth sailing as well. No more timing issues!!! even on an old version of the software! You can get a deal on these batteries, usually about $20 a piece, but on line are more like $6 a piece. Make sure they are still factory sealed. Expiration date is also important, they are made about 10 years before the expiration date, best to purchase them within the first few years of manufacturing. In general, they tend to last about 17-20 hours with a safe margin when flying on automatic injection. best to swap them out before they get low...waiting for the electronics to switch to the back up (B2) can cause timing issues that resolve themselves but not worth the bother or the nervousness of having a bogus cns alarm go off mid dive or get hit with a bogus missed deco warning. sodasorb seems to work just fine for the diving i do and is much less expensive than safnolyme at this point...though i keep hearing that is going to change . all told, not including o2, dilluent or sorb, I spent about $2,500 over the price of the unit to get set up…add about $1,500 for a VR3 and that would be $4,000. hope that helps. __________________ Gill Envy ...Because I wasn't born with gills! ><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°> Last edited by Gill Envy : 7th December 2006 at 20:40.
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8th December 2006, 11:45	#4 (permalink)
Ben Field CK+Shearwater Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: London, England Posts: 1,632	Re: Noob ?: Rebreather Costs Besides Unit Quote: (Originally Posted by PhilSiswick) Suffice to say that I'm around 2,000 GBP (4,000 USD or thereabouts at the current, wonderful for us, exchange rate :-) over the purchase price of the unit. Most of that was training (Mod 1 and ART), spares and consumables, with a few extra toys (Travelframe, new backplate/harness etc). And I'm only 9 hours in ;-) True, it does all add up..... but check his sig... Says it all. (Water Soluable Kit Diver- Buys a new toy after each and ever trip if not dive!) Ashtray full? That'll be a new car then! __________________ Know your PPO2, Pre-breath, Use checklists, Validate cells at 6mtrs, Use pure O2 at or near surface, Use a BOV, Don't dive Solo, Change Slime and Cells as recommended by Manufacturer and RTFM! Beware Fridge Suck! www.hugsac.org.uk
(Online)

8th December 2006, 12:24	#5 (permalink)
PhilSiswick Phil Siswick, Tango Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 988	Re: Noob ?: Rebreather Costs Besides Unit Quote: (Originally Posted by Ben Field) True, it does all add up..... but check his sig... Says it all. (Water Soluable Kit Diver- Buys a new toy after each and ever trip if not dive!) Ashtray full? That'll be a new car then! Hmmm, I think you're racing me to that title. I make that two units and two computers in 12 months ;-) Anyway, I've moved on from changing cars when the ashtray is full now that I have to pay for them. Now, I just change them when they need an MOT and/or the warranty has run out! Wonders... How long is the warranty on an Inspo ;-) Cheers, __________________ Phil (WSKD 0001) I have always felt that the dive I am on is not nearly important as the dives I plan to be on the rest of my life. Tom Rose, 2007 The person who gets the farthest is generally the one who is willing to do and dare. The sure thing boat never gets far from shore. Charles A. Lindbergh www.hugsac.org.uk
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8th December 2006, 14:50	#6 (permalink)
Ben Field CK+Shearwater Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: London, England Posts: 1,632	Re: Noob ?: Rebreather Costs Besides Unit Quote: (Originally Posted by PhilSiswick) Hmmm, I think you're racing me to that title. I make that two units and two computers in 12 months ;-) Yeah but upgrading doesn't count..... __________________ Know your PPO2, Pre-breath, Use checklists, Validate cells at 6mtrs, Use pure O2 at or near surface, Use a BOV, Don't dive Solo, Change Slime and Cells as recommended by Manufacturer and RTFM! Beware Fridge Suck! www.hugsac.org.uk
(Online)

8th December 2006, 14:53	#7 (permalink)
onetime Classic KISSer #138 Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: US, NJ Posts: 696	Re: Noob ?: Rebreather Costs Besides Unit I'd say $4k is a reasonable estimate but can go up a bit more if you start adding in some things that will make life more convenient. Things like O2 banks, boosters, etc. I think all told, I'm about $8k into it beyond the unit but I never bothered with computers like the VR3 or other CC compatibles. There are some other little things that you don't really think of as being "Rebreather costs" like I've gone through about 10 masks trying to find one that fits properly with my DSV. The masks I had were perfect for OC but going CC, probably the DSV weight, I needed to try new things. I've played around with all sorts of bits and pieces trying to get the weighting and positioning of the unit just right so add in for some miscellaneous fasteners and even a new frame. If you can't afford to spend almost the cost of a new CCR in the year or two after going CC you might want to rethink it. Of course, depending on your diving, you can sell off some of the OC gear to cover it.
(Offline)

8th December 2006, 15:03	#8 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,510	Re: Noob ?: Rebreather Costs Besides Unit Quote: (Originally Posted by Ben Field) Yeah but upgrading doesn't count..... Yeh right, you will always be "up grading". Trust me! __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
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