HELP.. I'm stuck between a Rock and a Frying pan...

RAL · 15th November 2006, 14:27

Quote: (Originally Posted by akscubainst)

I'm going to go with a Classic Kiss, OTS counterlungs and Shearwater electronics. Kind of a hybrid COPIS.

I looked very hard at the COPIS and I really like it, the Instructor that I will be using has been diving one for awhile and she loves it. But, I'm in Alaska and I like the simplicity of the Classic for being able to fix it.

Dave

My advice is slooooow down pardner. You have not even dove the unit and you are tweeking the devil out of it. You may want to regroup. I bet by the time you finish making the KISS into Bride of Kiss you will have more money tied up in it than a Copis. I understand wanting to be able to fix the unit yourself but once the electronics are removed from the Meg will it not be as self servicable as the KISS?
If you get the KISS dive it for a while before making it into a different animal, you may find that the back mounted CLs work fine once you get the rig fine tuned for you. If you have it in your mind you just have to have ots cls I think you may be better served by the Copis IMHO.

RAL

lizardland · 15th November 2006, 14:39

You'll be better off getting a bank loan. Tell them it's for a car, they never check. If you have a mortgage then getting an extra few grand for "home improvements" (my home life improved no end after my ex girlfriend f**ked off when I spent a few grand on a rebreather rather than building a new kitchen) isn't usually a problem. Either way, the interest rate is loads less then Visa and you'll usually be forced into making proper payments. With a mortgage you probably won't even notice the increase in payments.

Also 20 months of saving for the Rebreather is 20months of rebreather diving you are missing out on. Factor in that for a loooooooong time after you get the RB you will be an absolute beginner.

On the other hand, if money is tight then don't buy a rebreather. Everyone thinks once you have it then that's it. But rebreathers need feeding and they are hungry little bastards.

Cheers,

Stuart

**Gill Envy** · 15th November 2006, 15:19

Quote: (Originally Posted by Scott)

Which is worse....

Having to wait in order to pay cash to purchase a rebreather

OR

Burning probably $10,000 of credit when all is said and done onto one of those fancy plastic cards with a cryptic " V I S A " and a series of numbers for the purchase of the rebreather..

I figure I can put $500/month toward the rebreather... The only other thing I spend money on is scuba diving. So I can either wait 20 months-ish and pay cash.. or put it on a card and .. well.. pay minimum payments for 20 years since probably 400 of that 500 would be spent diving the rebreather =)

My general philosophy on life is:

You only live once, and today might be your last day, it is better to die in debt with lots of memories, then to die with a pile of unused cash.

As you can probably guess, I've already made up my mind, just curious on what others think.

At least I'm honest =)

Take care,

Scott

i can relate to that one. my wife and i are planning on having kids in about two years. When faced with barrowing to puchase now versus waiting and paying in cash, we decided to do it now, as our time diving together will be limited by our plans to have kids. We decided it was worth putting it all on plastic so that we could enjoy them now while we have lots of time. we purchased two evos six months ago and have paid one off already.

the other thing i would seriously consider is if you have easy access to diving without having to spend a lot of cash. we knew that while we were paying ours off, we could tighten the belt a bit, do lots of diving near home in WA and BC on a very reasonable budget...also allowing us to get some solid experience so that we can take full advantage when we do eventually head off on an expensive, far away vacation.

I would hold off if it means you will become so financially under the gun that you won't be able to do the diving you want.

my po2 cents.

akscubainst · 15th November 2006, 16:01

Quote: (Originally Posted by RAL)

My advice is slooooow down pardner. You have not even dove the unit and you are tweeking the devil out of it. You may want to regroup. I bet by the time you finish making the KISS into Bride of Kiss you will have more money tied up in it than a Copis. I understand wanting to be able to fix the unit yourself but once the electronics are removed from the Meg will it not be as self servicable as the KISS?
If you get the KISS dive it for a while before making it into a different animal, you may find that the back mounted CLs work fine once you get the rig fine tuned for you. If you have it in your mind you just have to have ots cls I think you may be better served by the Copis IMHO.

RAL

Don't get me wrong, the "bride of Kiss" won't happen immediatly if at all. I plan to get the Classic and Shearwater from the start. I want to have a computer and having looked at both, I like the Shearwater better than the VR3.

I have ulterior motives for going with the Kiss and not the Copis. It will cost me more but it will workout better for what I'm doing.

Dave

**Scott** · 15th November 2006, 19:11

Quote: (Originally Posted by PaulTG2)

Also, don't forget the additional start-up costs associated with the rebreather.

While I have *not* called to confirm this price as accurate.. this is what I am looking at, in USD:

6100 for Mini Meg Copis complete
45 for the Diluent Isolation Valve
75 for the Delux Oring Kit
330 for change to neoprene counterlungs
180 for a pair of Gsnaps
210 for a trio of O2 sensors

6940 Subtotal 1

2237 for a single room Inner Space 2007 package - covers lodging, food, all gas fills, all scrubber fills, all boat trips
551 supplement to be a student covers course, books, tables, cert card
642 airfare from local airport to Grand Cayman
200 +/- for tips over the week...

3630 Subtotal 2

10370 Current total

I'm debating on the HUD.. I will probably get it, which will add 225 bringing my total to 10595 + shipping, split into two more manageable chunks over a few month span.

I already have Aluminum 80's set up as side mount stage bottles, which would definately be overkill for recreational, but I can get a 19-45 cuft bottle cheap enough, my reg sets will work nicely for them. For training, I would be using Divetech's gear.

While at home, doing recreational, I am tempted to continue to carry the 80s, so if/when I graduate to full cave on the Meg, I will be prepared for the extra bailout baggage.

I have a Pelican case that the Mini *should* fit in, if not, I'll get one that is airline carryon size that it will fit,.. a minor expense that I can offset by selling something =)

I already have an O2 Analyzer.

I use a Reefnet.ca Sensus Ultra for documenting my dive profiles.

I plan on using tables and being extra conservative to start with while I am getting familliarized with the rebreather, and redundant bottom timers. (my current computer in gauge mode, and my watch w/ depth gauge).

And with any luck, I will be able to finagle $10,000 out of the future sale my heavily modified Jeep in the name of silent diving

(psst, anyone want a Jeep? =)

-Take care, and thanks again for the comments

Scott

Barrie Law · 15th November 2006, 20:00

Quote: (Originally Posted by Scott)

Which is worse....

Having to wait in order to pay cash to purchase a rebreather

OR

Burning probably $10,000 of credit when all is said and done onto one of those fancy plastic cards with a cryptic " V I S A " and a series of numbers for the purchase of the rebreather..

I figure I can put $500/month toward the rebreather... The only other thing I spend money on is scuba diving. So I can either wait 20 months-ish and pay cash.. or put it on a card and .. well.. pay minimum payments for 20 years since probably 400 of that 500 would be spent diving the rebreather =)

My general philosophy on life is:

You only live once, and today might be your last day, it is better to die in debt with lots of memories, then to die with a pile of unused cash.

As you can probably guess, I've already made up my mind, just curious on what others think.

At least I'm honest =)

Take care,

Scott

Hi Scott,

I did more or less the same thing with the Credit Card, it took me 2 years to clear the bloody thing

As has been suggested a bank loan may be a better option at least in terms of interest to be paid back, as you only have your mickey to keep you could let loose with your card.

Enjoy which ever unit you go for and never - never look at the interest section of your Visa bill.

Regards

robbcayman · 16th November 2006, 13:42

This man has changed my life and millions of others. It's no magic pilll or get rich quick scheme, just hard work. Real Debt Help - Get out of debt with Dave Ramsey's Total Money Makeover Plan. Seriously, I use to have $23,000 in debt. Once I learned to quit borrowing money my life got a lot less stressful. The only debt I currently have is a 15 year mortgage on my house. With no other payments I can actually pay cash for almost anything I want. If I were to lose my job today I would be fine for the next year, which I couldn't have said 2 years ago.

Yes, life is short, but you only have to sacrifice for a year or so to get out of debt. Once you get out of debt, you can live your whole life doing what you want to do, not what your finances dictate. The American way is to borrow, borrow and borrow some more. I changed my outlook on money, and it has changed my life forever. Good luck in whatever you decide to do.

**Scott** · 16th November 2006, 15:03

Thank you for your comments Rob... There is no money related stress here. Despite my intention to put the Meg on a credit card, I am truely rather financially frugal and sound..

My house and land is paid off... my truck payment, auto insurance, homeowners insurance, life insurance, and DAN insurance all combined is less than 1/3 my monthly income. If I eat out 3-4 nights a week, which is rare, I still spend less than 1/3 my monthly income on food.

I realize, though, that when I buy my Meg, I will want to dive it, and that will cut into my disposable income to an extent, so it may take me a little while to pay off the Meg debt, but I am willing to sacrifice a little extra money long term, to get what I want much sooner =)

Take care,

Scott

robbcayman · 16th November 2006, 15:41

Quote: (Originally Posted by Scott)

Thank you for your comments Rob... There is no money related stress here. Despite my intention to put the Meg on a credit card, I am truely rather financially frugal and sound..

My house and land is paid off... my truck payment, auto insurance, homeowners insurance, life insurance, and DAN insurance all combined is less than 1/3 my monthly income. If I eat out 3-4 nights a week, which is rare, I still spend less than 1/3 my monthly income on food.

I realize, though, that when I buy my Meg, I will want to dive it, and that will cut into my disposable income to an extent, so it may take me a little while to pay off the Meg debt, but I am willing to sacrifice a little extra money long term, to get what I want much sooner =)

Take care,

Scott

Sounds like you are financially aware, and therefore will make good decisions. Yes, diving the rebreather will cost some money, not to forget those exotic dive trips.

PaulTG2 · 16th November 2006, 16:05

Hello,

I will pass on this bit I've learned from flying... if you can't afford to do it right, and keep doing it right, then don't start. Do something else and live longer.

-p

15th November 2006, 14:27	#11 (permalink)
RAL Longbottom Time Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: North Florida Posts: 386	Re: HELP.. I'm stuck between a Rock and a Frying pan... Quote: (Originally Posted by akscubainst) I'm going to go with a Classic Kiss, OTS counterlungs and Shearwater electronics. Kind of a hybrid COPIS. I looked very hard at the COPIS and I really like it, the Instructor that I will be using has been diving one for awhile and she loves it. But, I'm in Alaska and I like the simplicity of the Classic for being able to fix it. Dave My advice is slooooow down pardner. You have not even dove the unit and you are tweeking the devil out of it. You may want to regroup. I bet by the time you finish making the KISS into Bride of Kiss you will have more money tied up in it than a Copis. I understand wanting to be able to fix the unit yourself but once the electronics are removed from the Meg will it not be as self servicable as the KISS? If you get the KISS dive it for a while before making it into a different animal, you may find that the back mounted CLs work fine once you get the rig fine tuned for you. If you have it in your mind you just have to have ots cls I think you may be better served by the Copis IMHO. RAL __________________ The sea does not care about you.
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15th November 2006, 14:39	#12 (permalink)
lizardland Yak Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: North... Posts: 1,256	Re: HELP.. I'm stuck between a Rock and a Frying pan... You'll be better off getting a bank loan. Tell them it's for a car, they never check. If you have a mortgage then getting an extra few grand for "home improvements" (my home life improved no end after my ex girlfriend fked off when I spent a few grand on a rebreather rather than building a new kitchen) isn't usually a problem. Either way, the interest rate is loads less then Visa and you'll usually be forced into making proper payments. With a mortgage you probably won't even notice the increase in payments. Also 20 months of saving for the Rebreather is 20months of rebreather diving you are missing out on. Factor in that for a loooooooong time after you get the RB you will be an absolute beginner. On the other hand, if money is tight then don't buy a rebreather. Everyone thinks once you have it then that's it. But rebreathers need feeding and they are hungry little bastards. Cheers, Stuart __________________ Can you imagine drifting along in the sea with your mouth open and a load of f*ing plankton going in? You'd like it, would you? www.westons-cider.co.uk Azerbaijani Association of Technical Divers Publicity Officer and Goat Wrangler
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15th November 2006, 15:19	#13 (permalink)
Gill Envy Shearwater Copis Diver Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Evolution Other CCR Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: seattle Posts: 1,302	Re: HELP.. I'm stuck between a Rock and a Frying pan... Quote: (Originally Posted by Scott) Which is worse.... Having to wait in order to pay cash to purchase a rebreather OR Burning probably $10,000 of credit when all is said and done onto one of those fancy plastic cards with a cryptic " V I S A " and a series of numbers for the purchase of the rebreather.. I figure I can put $500/month toward the rebreather... The only other thing I spend money on is scuba diving. So I can either wait 20 months-ish and pay cash.. or put it on a card and .. well.. pay minimum payments for 20 years since probably 400 of that 500 would be spent diving the rebreather =) My general philosophy on life is: You only live once, and today might be your last day, it is better to die in debt with lots of memories, then to die with a pile of unused cash. As you can probably guess, I've already made up my mind, just curious on what others think. At least I'm honest =) Take care, Scott i can relate to that one. my wife and i are planning on having kids in about two years. When faced with barrowing to puchase now versus waiting and paying in cash, we decided to do it now, as our time diving together will be limited by our plans to have kids. We decided it was worth putting it all on plastic so that we could enjoy them now while we have lots of time. we purchased two evos six months ago and have paid one off already. the other thing i would seriously consider is if you have easy access to diving without having to spend a lot of cash. we knew that while we were paying ours off, we could tighten the belt a bit, do lots of diving near home in WA and BC on a very reasonable budget...also allowing us to get some solid experience so that we can take full advantage when we do eventually head off on an expensive, far away vacation. I would hold off if it means you will become so financially under the gun that you won't be able to do the diving you want. my po2 cents. __________________ Gill Envy ...Because I wasn't born with gills! ><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>
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15th November 2006, 16:01	#14 (permalink)
akscubainst It's cold here! Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2005 Location: Juneau, Alaska Posts: 64	Re: HELP.. I'm stuck between a Rock and a Frying pan... Quote: (Originally Posted by RAL) My advice is slooooow down pardner. You have not even dove the unit and you are tweeking the devil out of it. You may want to regroup. I bet by the time you finish making the KISS into Bride of Kiss you will have more money tied up in it than a Copis. I understand wanting to be able to fix the unit yourself but once the electronics are removed from the Meg will it not be as self servicable as the KISS? If you get the KISS dive it for a while before making it into a different animal, you may find that the back mounted CLs work fine once you get the rig fine tuned for you. If you have it in your mind you just have to have ots cls I think you may be better served by the Copis IMHO. RAL Don't get me wrong, the "bride of Kiss" won't happen immediatly if at all. I plan to get the Classic and Shearwater from the start. I want to have a computer and having looked at both, I like the Shearwater better than the VR3. I have ulterior motives for going with the Kiss and not the Copis. It will cost me more but it will workout better for what I'm doing. Dave
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15th November 2006, 19:11	#15 (permalink)
Scott Supporting Member Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Mendota, Virginia Posts: 163	Re: HELP.. I'm stuck between a Rock and a Frying pan... Quote: (Originally Posted by PaulTG2) Also, don't forget the additional start-up costs associated with the rebreather. While I have not called to confirm this price as accurate.. this is what I am looking at, in USD: 6100 for Mini Meg Copis complete 45 for the Diluent Isolation Valve 75 for the Delux Oring Kit 330 for change to neoprene counterlungs 180 for a pair of Gsnaps 210 for a trio of O2 sensors 6940 Subtotal 1 2237 for a single room Inner Space 2007 package - covers lodging, food, all gas fills, all scrubber fills, all boat trips 551 supplement to be a student covers course, books, tables, cert card 642 airfare from local airport to Grand Cayman 200 +/- for tips over the week... 3630 Subtotal 2 10370 Current total I'm debating on the HUD.. I will probably get it, which will add 225 bringing my total to 10595 + shipping, split into two more manageable chunks over a few month span. I already have Aluminum 80's set up as side mount stage bottles, which would definately be overkill for recreational, but I can get a 19-45 cuft bottle cheap enough, my reg sets will work nicely for them. For training, I would be using Divetech's gear. While at home, doing recreational, I am tempted to continue to carry the 80s, so if/when I graduate to full cave on the Meg, I will be prepared for the extra bailout baggage. I have a Pelican case that the Mini should fit in, if not, I'll get one that is airline carryon size that it will fit,.. a minor expense that I can offset by selling something =) I already have an O2 Analyzer. I use a Reefnet.ca Sensus Ultra for documenting my dive profiles. I plan on using tables and being extra conservative to start with while I am getting familliarized with the rebreather, and redundant bottom timers. (my current computer in gauge mode, and my watch w/ depth gauge). And with any luck, I will be able to finagle $10,000 out of the future sale my heavily modified Jeep in the name of silent diving (psst, anyone want a Jeep? =) -Take care, and thanks again for the comments Scott
(Online)

15th November 2006, 20:00	#16 (permalink)
Barrie Law RebreatherWorld Sponsor Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Ireland Posts: 726	Re: HELP.. I'm stuck between a Rock and a Frying pan... Quote: (Originally Posted by Scott) Which is worse.... Having to wait in order to pay cash to purchase a rebreather OR Burning probably $10,000 of credit when all is said and done onto one of those fancy plastic cards with a cryptic " V I S A " and a series of numbers for the purchase of the rebreather.. I figure I can put $500/month toward the rebreather... The only other thing I spend money on is scuba diving. So I can either wait 20 months-ish and pay cash.. or put it on a card and .. well.. pay minimum payments for 20 years since probably 400 of that 500 would be spent diving the rebreather =) My general philosophy on life is: You only live once, and today might be your last day, it is better to die in debt with lots of memories, then to die with a pile of unused cash. As you can probably guess, I've already made up my mind, just curious on what others think. At least I'm honest =) Take care, Scott Hi Scott, I did more or less the same thing with the Credit Card, it took me 2 years to clear the bloody thing As has been suggested a bank loan may be a better option at least in terms of interest to be paid back, as you only have your mickey to keep you could let loose with your card. Enjoy which ever unit you go for and never - never look at the interest section of your Visa bill. Regards __________________ Barrie Law Rebreather World Store Supplying the Rebreather World Tel:US +19548403892 Fax:US+19543333792 Tel:EU+442071930496 Fax:EU+442077606344 Mobile+353876880628 Skype:barrielaw Email: barrie@rebreatherworldstore.com
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16th November 2006, 13:42	#17 (permalink)
robbcayman New Member Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: oklahoma city Posts: 11	Re: HELP.. I'm stuck between a Rock and a Frying pan... This man has changed my life and millions of others. It's no magic pilll or get rich quick scheme, just hard work. Real Debt Help - Get out of debt with Dave Ramsey's Total Money Makeover Plan. Seriously, I use to have $23,000 in debt. Once I learned to quit borrowing money my life got a lot less stressful. The only debt I currently have is a 15 year mortgage on my house. With no other payments I can actually pay cash for almost anything I want. If I were to lose my job today I would be fine for the next year, which I couldn't have said 2 years ago. Yes, life is short, but you only have to sacrifice for a year or so to get out of debt. Once you get out of debt, you can live your whole life doing what you want to do, not what your finances dictate. The American way is to borrow, borrow and borrow some more. I changed my outlook on money, and it has changed my life forever. Good luck in whatever you decide to do.
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16th November 2006, 15:03	#18 (permalink)
Scott Supporting Member Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Mendota, Virginia Posts: 163	Re: HELP.. I'm stuck between a Rock and a Frying pan... Thank you for your comments Rob... There is no money related stress here. Despite my intention to put the Meg on a credit card, I am truely rather financially frugal and sound.. My house and land is paid off... my truck payment, auto insurance, homeowners insurance, life insurance, and DAN insurance all combined is less than 1/3 my monthly income. If I eat out 3-4 nights a week, which is rare, I still spend less than 1/3 my monthly income on food. I realize, though, that when I buy my Meg, I will want to dive it, and that will cut into my disposable income to an extent, so it may take me a little while to pay off the Meg debt, but I am willing to sacrifice a little extra money long term, to get what I want much sooner =) Take care, Scott
(Online)

16th November 2006, 15:41	#19 (permalink)
robbcayman New Member Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: oklahoma city Posts: 11	Re: HELP.. I'm stuck between a Rock and a Frying pan... Quote: (Originally Posted by Scott) Thank you for your comments Rob... There is no money related stress here. Despite my intention to put the Meg on a credit card, I am truely rather financially frugal and sound.. My house and land is paid off... my truck payment, auto insurance, homeowners insurance, life insurance, and DAN insurance all combined is less than 1/3 my monthly income. If I eat out 3-4 nights a week, which is rare, I still spend less than 1/3 my monthly income on food. I realize, though, that when I buy my Meg, I will want to dive it, and that will cut into my disposable income to an extent, so it may take me a little while to pay off the Meg debt, but I am willing to sacrifice a little extra money long term, to get what I want much sooner =) Take care, Scott Sounds like you are financially aware, and therefore will make good decisions. Yes, diving the rebreather will cost some money, not to forget those exotic dive trips.
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16th November 2006, 16:05	#20 (permalink)
PaulTG2 Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Virginia, USA Posts: 400	Re: HELP.. I'm stuck between a Rock and a Frying pan... Hello, I will pass on this bit I've learned from flying... if you can't afford to do it right, and keep doing it right, then don't start. Do something else and live longer. -p
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