Buying, training, possibly importing?? in the red sea

Dave Crampton · 5th October 2006, 11:28

Hi,

I'm not yet a Rebreather diver. I have been contacted by a member of our BSAC club. An other member of our club trains RB diver in the Red Sea. He is offering an Inspo and Training at Trade/cost.

Does anyone who what saving I'm likely to make buy going over to the Red Sea and doing the training over there?

Are there any potential problems with bringing back the Rebreather from the Red Sea? like extra costs - import? VAT?

Can I use the TARIC code I saw recently posted by Iratnl?

All help appreciated.

Dave C

***Decodiver*** · 5th October 2006, 11:46

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave Crampton)

He is offering an Inspo and Training at Trade/cost.

Very brotherly to fellow instructors...........

Reminds me of certain people who will do you a course in your kitchen for a cup of tee.

Good luck Dave, honestly.

Just remember that cost cutting training means that somewhere the costs have to be cut.

Not have a go at you mate and sorry for hijacking your thread.

Cheers,

Dave Cooper.

Janos · 5th October 2006, 11:46

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave Crampton)

Hi,

I'm not yet a Rebreather diver. I have been contacted by a member of our BSAC club. An other member of our club trains RB diver in the Red Sea. He is offering an Inspo and Training at Trade/cost.

Does anyone who what saving I'm likely to make buy going over to the Red Sea and doing the training over there?

Are there any potential problems with bringing back the Rebreather from the Red Sea? like extra costs - import? VAT?

Can I use the TARIC code I saw recently posted by Iratnl?

All help appreciated.

The Import duty on a KISS is 1.7%. VAT is the killer which is 17.5%. Plus UPS or whoever will charge you an administration fee. There are also moral / legal considerations.

I did my MOD1 in the Red Sea with Dave Thompson and I'd recommend it. The downside of Red Sea training is that you are not training in the conditions you'll use it in (although I wore my UK gloves for the course). The benefits are that it's warm, effectlively non-tidal and the viz is great. This means that you can get a lot more in water time. I racked around 13 hours underwater on my MOD1.

I think the pros outweigh the cons, but that's just my opinion.

It's easy to say, but hard to do. But I would try and make your choice of instructor seperate from the whole finance decision. Choose you instructor because they are a good instructor. Not because they can do you a cheap deal on the unit.

Janos

Dave Crampton · 5th October 2006, 12:53

Quote: (Originally Posted by Decodiver)

Just remember that cost cutting training means that somewhere the costs have to be cut.

Quote: (Originally Posted by Janos)

It's easy to say, but hard to do. But I would try and make your choice of instructor seperate from the whole finance decision. Choose you instructor because they are a good instructor. Not because they can do you a cheap deal on the unit.

Janos

Oh I'm aware of this. I just wondered what you guys had to say on this. Thanks for the advice. I was after advice on what possible saving I might get trade, rather than new, as Trade sounded enticing but might not work out that much cheeper.

I've contacted a couple of Instructors recomended on here and when I see the Unit I want will finalise the details then.

Cheers,

Dave C

lizardland · 5th October 2006, 13:03

I'm not sure what the wait on a new Inspo is but I think it's in the "bloody long" category. If someone is offering you one now then make sure to ask why he has one going spare. If he's selling it as "new" then I'd want to make sure it really is new.

dave t · 5th October 2006, 13:05

These "instructors" who do it for cost/trade/ egg and bacon and a bottle of scotch are the ones who put the proffesional instructors out of buisiness.All that does is gradually lowers the standard of training, this year alone I have counted three good proffesional instructors who have had to pack it in due to the cost cutters.

Sorry for the rant, its not aimed at you Dave but it pisses me off!!!

Dave

Odin · 5th October 2006, 13:10

Quote: (Originally Posted by dave t)

These "instructors" who do it for cost/trade/ egg and bacon and a bottle of scotch are the ones who put the proffesional instructors out of buisiness.All that does is gradually lowers the standard of training, this year alone I have counted three good proffesional instructors who have had to pack it in due to the cost cutters.

Sorry for the rant, its not aimed at you Dave but it pisses me off!!!

Dave

Support your local Instructor... and they will support you!

Dave Crampton · 5th October 2006, 13:11

Your right Dave. I was thinking of doing Trimix next Year (OC) with Andy Hayhurst unit he stopped diving. I know he's not been put out of business due to undercutting trainers but I can sympathise with what your saying. I was hoping to call him up to book it and any CCR training was going to be with him too. I did my Nitrox and Deco procs with him. I know his techniques and his thoroughness.

I have heard of a few instructors who don't accept much in the way of payment.

Dave C

***Decodiver*** · 5th October 2006, 13:14

Quote: (Originally Posted by dave t)

These "instructors" who do it for cost/trade/ egg and bacon and a bottle of scotch are the ones who put the proffesional instructors out of buisiness.All that does is gradually lowers the standard of training, this year alone I have counted three good proffesional instructors who have had to pack it in due to the cost cutters.

Absolutely Dave I could not agree more.

Padowan · 5th October 2006, 13:27

What I did, was to do my course in the UK with a quality instructor, so that I could get a quality education and guidance on my skills in the conditions I would be diving most.

I would not try and save a few quid on instruction - as others have said, quality instruction is not cheap, but neither is CCR diving. Once you accept that this type of diving costs money, you can forget about that aspect, and focus on choosing your instructor/unit.

I took my unit to the Red Sea for a weeks liveaboard immediately after the course to practice, practice, practice in easy conditions where I could focus on the unit and the skills without having to worry about the conditions. Doing 4 dives a day really drums in the skills, gets you lots of ascents/descents, develops good motor skills for locating valves, buttons etc. and gives you lots of experience of equipment preparation. You can also spend time honing CCR constant bouyancy skills with the drysuit out of the equation. I found that this approach allowed me to develop a good level of confidence in the unit and my skills, before adding the further demands of UK diving like poor vis, drysuits etc etc.

5th October 2006, 11:28	#1 (permalink)
Dave Crampton CK #051 Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Bury St Edmunds, UK Posts: 278	Buying, training, possibly importing?? in the red sea Hi, I'm not yet a Rebreather diver. I have been contacted by a member of our BSAC club. An other member of our club trains RB diver in the Red Sea. He is offering an Inspo and Training at Trade/cost. Does anyone who what saving I'm likely to make buy going over to the Red Sea and doing the training over there? Are there any potential problems with bringing back the Rebreather from the Red Sea? like extra costs - import? VAT? Can I use the TARIC code I saw recently posted by Iratnl? All help appreciated. Dave C
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5th October 2006, 11:46	#2 (permalink)
*Decodiver* Administrator Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Ouroboros rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Sport Kiss Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Geneva Posts: 2,168	Re: Buying, training, possibly importing?? in the red sea Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave Crampton) He is offering an Inspo and Training at Trade/cost. Very brotherly to fellow instructors........... Reminds me of certain people who will do you a course in your kitchen for a cup of tee. Good luck Dave, honestly. Just remember that cost cutting training means that somewhere the costs have to be cut. Not have a go at you mate and sorry for hijacking your thread. Cheers, Dave Cooper. __________________ CCR/OC Trimix Instructor Trainer CCR Training to Mixed Gas in Switzerland, France, UK & Germany on Megalodon/COPIS-Megalodon/KISS/Sport KISS/Ouroboros/rEvo/Inspiration/Evolution/Sentinel www.zerogravitydiving.com Rebreather World Terms & Conditions
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5th October 2006, 11:46	#3 (permalink)
Janos "Two Sheds" Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: East Surrey Posts: 581	Re: Buying, training, possibly importing?? in the red sea Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave Crampton) Hi, I'm not yet a Rebreather diver. I have been contacted by a member of our BSAC club. An other member of our club trains RB diver in the Red Sea. He is offering an Inspo and Training at Trade/cost. Does anyone who what saving I'm likely to make buy going over to the Red Sea and doing the training over there? Are there any potential problems with bringing back the Rebreather from the Red Sea? like extra costs - import? VAT? Can I use the TARIC code I saw recently posted by Iratnl? All help appreciated. The Import duty on a KISS is 1.7%. VAT is the killer which is 17.5%. Plus UPS or whoever will charge you an administration fee. There are also moral / legal considerations. I did my MOD1 in the Red Sea with Dave Thompson and I'd recommend it. The downside of Red Sea training is that you are not training in the conditions you'll use it in (although I wore my UK gloves for the course). The benefits are that it's warm, effectlively non-tidal and the viz is great. This means that you can get a lot more in water time. I racked around 13 hours underwater on my MOD1. I think the pros outweigh the cons, but that's just my opinion. It's easy to say, but hard to do. But I would try and make your choice of instructor seperate from the whole finance decision. Choose you instructor because they are a good instructor. Not because they can do you a cheap deal on the unit. Janos __________________ You can lead a horse to water but you can't climb a ladder with a large bell in both hands - Vic Reeves www.hellfins.com/shed
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5th October 2006, 12:53	#4 (permalink)
Dave Crampton CK #051 Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Bury St Edmunds, UK Posts: 278	Re: Buying, training, possibly importing?? in the red sea Quote: (Originally Posted by Decodiver) Just remember that cost cutting training means that somewhere the costs have to be cut. Quote: (Originally Posted by Janos) It's easy to say, but hard to do. But I would try and make your choice of instructor seperate from the whole finance decision. Choose you instructor because they are a good instructor. Not because they can do you a cheap deal on the unit. Janos Oh I'm aware of this. I just wondered what you guys had to say on this. Thanks for the advice. I was after advice on what possible saving I might get trade, rather than new, as Trade sounded enticing but might not work out that much cheeper. I've contacted a couple of Instructors recomended on here and when I see the Unit I want will finalise the details then. Cheers, Dave C
(Offline)

5th October 2006, 13:03	#5 (permalink)
lizardland Yak Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: North... Posts: 1,189	Re: Buying, training, possibly importing?? in the red sea I'm not sure what the wait on a new Inspo is but I think it's in the "bloody long" category. If someone is offering you one now then make sure to ask why he has one going spare. If he's selling it as "new" then I'd want to make sure it really is new. __________________ Can you imagine drifting along in the sea with your mouth open and a load of f***ing plankton going in? You'd like it, would you? www.westons-cider.co.uk Azerbaijani Association of Technical Divers Publicity Officer and Goat Wrangler
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5th October 2006, 13:05	#6 (permalink)
dave t Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Dolphin Ray Azimuth Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Dolphin Ray Azimuth Home Build Join Date: May 2005 Location: UK Posts: 621	Re: Buying, training, possibly importing?? in the red sea These "instructors" who do it for cost/trade/ egg and bacon and a bottle of scotch are the ones who put the proffesional instructors out of buisiness.All that does is gradually lowers the standard of training, this year alone I have counted three good proffesional instructors who have had to pack it in due to the cost cutters. Sorry for the rant, its not aimed at you Dave but it pisses me off!!! Dave
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5th October 2006, 13:10	#7 (permalink)
Odin Egbert - the Deco Dancer Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: U.K Posts: 142	Re: Buying, training, possibly importing?? in the red sea Quote: (Originally Posted by dave t) These "instructors" who do it for cost/trade/ egg and bacon and a bottle of scotch are the ones who put the proffesional instructors out of buisiness.All that does is gradually lowers the standard of training, this year alone I have counted three good proffesional instructors who have had to pack it in due to the cost cutters. Sorry for the rant, its not aimed at you Dave but it pisses me off!!! Dave Support your local Instructor... and they will support you!
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5th October 2006, 13:11	#8 (permalink)
Dave Crampton CK #051 Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Bury St Edmunds, UK Posts: 278	Re: Buying, training, possibly importing?? in the red sea Your right Dave. I was thinking of doing Trimix next Year (OC) with Andy Hayhurst unit he stopped diving. I know he's not been put out of business due to undercutting trainers but I can sympathise with what your saying. I was hoping to call him up to book it and any CCR training was going to be with him too. I did my Nitrox and Deco procs with him. I know his techniques and his thoroughness. I have heard of a few instructors who don't accept much in the way of payment. Dave C
(Offline)

5th October 2006, 13:14	#9 (permalink)
*Decodiver* Administrator Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Ouroboros rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Sport Kiss Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Geneva Posts: 2,168	Re: Buying, training, possibly importing?? in the red sea Quote: (Originally Posted by dave t) These "instructors" who do it for cost/trade/ egg and bacon and a bottle of scotch are the ones who put the proffesional instructors out of buisiness.All that does is gradually lowers the standard of training, this year alone I have counted three good proffesional instructors who have had to pack it in due to the cost cutters. Absolutely Dave I could not agree more. __________________ CCR/OC Trimix Instructor Trainer CCR Training to Mixed Gas in Switzerland, France, UK & Germany on Megalodon/COPIS-Megalodon/KISS/Sport KISS/Ouroboros/rEvo/Inspiration/Evolution/Sentinel www.zerogravitydiving.com Rebreather World Terms & Conditions
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5th October 2006, 13:27	#10 (permalink)
Padowan Proper Boffin Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Kent, UK. Posts: 511	Re: Buying, training, possibly importing?? in the red sea What I did, was to do my course in the UK with a quality instructor, so that I could get a quality education and guidance on my skills in the conditions I would be diving most. I would not try and save a few quid on instruction - as others have said, quality instruction is not cheap, but neither is CCR diving. Once you accept that this type of diving costs money, you can forget about that aspect, and focus on choosing your instructor/unit. I took my unit to the Red Sea for a weeks liveaboard immediately after the course to practice, practice, practice in easy conditions where I could focus on the unit and the skills without having to worry about the conditions. Doing 4 dives a day really drums in the skills, gets you lots of ascents/descents, develops good motor skills for locating valves, buttons etc. and gives you lots of experience of equipment preparation. You can also spend time honing CCR constant bouyancy skills with the drysuit out of the equation. I found that this approach allowed me to develop a good level of confidence in the unit and my skills, before adding the further demands of UK diving like poor vis, drysuits etc etc. __________________ Padowan The future's bright, the future's Yellow .....for now padowan.net - Latest Video: Scapa Flow Rebreather Diving
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