Learning on an Inspo CCR with a Scooter

wrecked · 28th May 2005, 04:18

I plan to do all my dives with my scooter. The main danger I can see in doing this is the possible sudden changes with depth. Though this is only in dives down to 30mtrs.

Can anyone point out any issues or problems I may encounter in using the CCR with my Diverite scooter.

ROB DAVIE · 28th May 2005, 05:30

Quote: (Originally Posted by wrecked)

I plan to do all my dives with my scooter. The main danger I can see in doing this is the possible sudden changes with depth. Though this is only in dives down to 30mtrs.

Quote: (Originally Posted by wrecked)

Can anyone point out any issues or problems I may encounter in using the CCR with my Diverite scooter.

Handling a scoot while on CCR is analogous to shooting while riding on horseback. The skills of managing the "beast" must be second nature and operate on an unconscious level so as to allow you to handle the other part of the equation properly. In this case you sound as if you are well familiar with one beast (the scoot), but you may find you have your hands full if you are not too familiar with the other "beast".

Sudden changes of depth on the YBOD (or Kato, as some call it) could be problematic in several ways. Just as one example, sudden descent might cause the ADV to fire. Combine that with a sudden ascent, and your counter-lungs are then over inflated, possibly venting, and your PPO2 is all over the map.

I think others will back me up here in this suggestion, but I would recommend you spend some time getting comfortable with your box before you hop on your trusty steed and thunder off into the distance.

Just my PPO2's worth.

Cheers!

Rob

***Decodiver*** · 28th May 2005, 10:01

Hi Wrecked,

As an IT I can tell you that I would not allow you anywhere near your scooter on your Mod 1 course.

My reasons for this are that it would make it more difficult for you to perform the requisite skills. Also I would need to assess you on how you 'swim' the unit.

Correct buoyancy on a CCR, is the fundamental skill you need to achieve.

All of us who use scooters know that we can, for a short period of time, trim our buoyancy using the scooter, this would not be beneficial for you nor your instructor and is not condusive to good practice.

Also there will be times when you will dive without your CCR, or portions of scooter dives when you will need to swim.

Your ticket is a CCR ticket, and means you have qualified to dive the Inspiration CCR. It speaks of and demonstrates, that you have achieved a minimum benchmark degree of proficiency in the use of the Inspiration, identical to that obtained by other users.

If you feel the need to use your scooter with your CCR, I know I often do, then I suggest you do so once you have achieved, mastered and continually demonstrated the core skills of CCR diving, after your course.

I am also making the assumption that you are in no way disabled, obviously persons who are unable to fin and need a scooter to dive all the time, could use their scooter for the course once an agreed exemption as been obtained from the trraining agency concerned, this would only allow them however to dive CCR with a scooter and would be written on their cert card.

Cheers,

Dave Cooper.

Ken · 28th May 2005, 10:41

Quote: (Originally Posted by wrecked)

I plan to do all my dives with my scooter. The main danger I can see in doing this is the possible sudden changes with depth. Though this is only in dives down to 30mtrs.

Can anyone point out any issues or problems I may encounter in using the CCR with my Diverite scooter.

I scooter with the Insp./open circuit. Big question is the word "all". Could you elaborate? I second the advice of Rob and Dave. The CCR is a unique tool to master, as are the nuances of operating a scooter.

Pawel · 28th May 2005, 11:45

Sonds like having sex on a motorcycle . Assuming you are doing a decent course, the instructor will make sure you have task overloading that you will not have time to even scratch your bum, not to mention operating the scooter. Even a scooter with a sadle has to be operated with one hand. You will be missing at least 2 hands. Just my thoughts.

Cheers,

Pawel

cedricverdier · 28th May 2005, 13:11

Quote: (Originally Posted by wrecked)

I plan to do all my dives with my scooter. The main danger I can see in doing this is the possible sudden changes with depth. Though this is only in dives down to 30mtrs.

Can anyone point out any issues or problems I may encounter in using the CCR with my Diverite scooter.

Hi,

I like riding a scooter. It's a lot of fun when you really master your rebreather and if you have the appropriate unit for that (HUD, no danglies, etc).

But it takes time to master both of them and to be able to safely use both of them at the same time. And don't make the mistake to think that using a scooter is a lot easier than diving with a CCR. There are a lot of potential hazards (deco, ascent rate, barotrauma, etc) and even more while combining it with a CCR.

Cheers

***EBT*** · 28th May 2005, 15:02

Quote: (Originally Posted by wrecked)

I plan to do all my dives with my scooter. The main danger I can see in doing this is the possible sudden changes with depth. Though this is only in dives down to 30mtrs.

Can anyone point out any issues or problems I may encounter in using the CCR with my Diverite scooter.

More fundamental than most of the other arguments, if you're new to a CCR, you need to "feel" its bouyancy characteristic to learn how to handle it etc. Scootering screws your ability to do this, unless you're very experienced on the CCR.

In short, it'll make learning harder, dont do it

lizardland · 28th May 2005, 16:02

If you use a DSV with an integrated OC bailout reg then a lot of people have problems with it freeflowing.

I'm a newbie Rebreather diver but I've used scooters for years, what would worry me is hitting something. The Inspiration has a fair bit of exposed plastic on it.

Rodney Nairne (Silent Submersion) did an excellent bit of advice on another forum at: http://www.aberdeenwatersports.com/f...&get=last#6129

"Hello Jim,

I think you dive an Inspiration. Like most rebreathers, they tend to put you in a heads up position which is not ideal for scootering. Plus it's more difficult to get the bailout/deco cylinders to ride close to you chest, even if the are aluminium.

Take a look at Edoardo on an Inspiration in this video: http://www.silent-submersion.com/Vid...rnadeShort.wmv

and compare the body trim and how close the neck of the cylinders are in this video: http://www.silent-submersion.com/Videos/Suzie01.wmv

After seeing this video, Edoardo changed the weighting so he is more horizontal and a lot faster/efficient while scootering. (I'm guessing by adding more weight at the top of the unit?) He has also shortened the breathing hoses to the ideal length, and rigged the handsets to be tight to his body and not waving below him. Lastly, although he was already using aluminium stages, he has rigged them so they ride a lot tighter to the body.

Another tip, make sure your setup allows to to tilt your head all the way back. Otherwise you can't see where you are going when you are horizontal! And then you tend to compensate by going more heads up.

I hope this helps for your next trial!

-Rodney Nairne
www.silent-submersion.com"

Cheers,

Stuart

28th May 2005, 04:18	#1 (permalink)
wrecked Wrecked Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2005 Location: Lilydale, Vic Posts: 24	Learning on an Inspo CCR with a Scooter I plan to do all my dives with my scooter. The main danger I can see in doing this is the possible sudden changes with depth. Though this is only in dives down to 30mtrs. Can anyone point out any issues or problems I may encounter in using the CCR with my Diverite scooter.
(Offline)

28th May 2005, 05:30	#2 (permalink)
ROB DAVIE Administrator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: HOUSTON, REPUBLIC OF TEJAS Posts: 1,120	Suggestion..... Quote: (Originally Posted by wrecked) I plan to do all my dives with my scooter. The main danger I can see in doing this is the possible sudden changes with depth. Though this is only in dives down to 30mtrs. Quote: (Originally Posted by wrecked) Can anyone point out any issues or problems I may encounter in using the CCR with my Diverite scooter. Handling a scoot while on CCR is analogous to shooting while riding on horseback. The skills of managing the "beast" must be second nature and operate on an unconscious level so as to allow you to handle the other part of the equation properly. In this case you sound as if you are well familiar with one beast (the scoot), but you may find you have your hands full if you are not too familiar with the other "beast". Sudden changes of depth on the YBOD (or Kato, as some call it) could be problematic in several ways. Just as one example, sudden descent might cause the ADV to fire. Combine that with a sudden ascent, and your counter-lungs are then over inflated, possibly venting, and your PPO2 is all over the map. I think others will back me up here in this suggestion, but I would recommend you spend some time getting comfortable with your box before you hop on your trusty steed and thunder off into the distance. Just my PPO2's worth. Cheers! Rob __________________ [SIZE=2]"CC Rebreathers will become a viable part of tech diving [U]WHEN PIGS FLY[/U]!!"--GI3[/SIZE]
(Offline)

28th May 2005, 10:01	#3 (permalink)
*Decodiver* Administrator Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Geneva Posts: 2,181	Hi Wrecked, As an IT I can tell you that I would not allow you anywhere near your scooter on your Mod 1 course. My reasons for this are that it would make it more difficult for you to perform the requisite skills. Also I would need to assess you on how you 'swim' the unit. Correct buoyancy on a CCR, is the fundamental skill you need to achieve. All of us who use scooters know that we can, for a short period of time, trim our buoyancy using the scooter, this would not be beneficial for you nor your instructor and is not condusive to good practice. Also there will be times when you will dive without your CCR, or portions of scooter dives when you will need to swim. Your ticket is a CCR ticket, and means you have qualified to dive the Inspiration CCR. It speaks of and demonstrates, that you have achieved a minimum benchmark degree of proficiency in the use of the Inspiration, *identical to that obtained by other users.* If you feel the need to use your scooter with your CCR, I know I often do, then I suggest you do so once you have achieved, mastered and continually demonstrated the core skills of CCR diving, after your course. I am also making the assumption that you are in no way disabled, obviously persons who are unable to fin and need a scooter to dive all the time, could use their scooter for the course once an agreed exemption as been obtained from the trraining agency concerned, this would only allow them however to dive CCR with a scooter and would be written on their cert card. Cheers, Dave Cooper. __________________ CCR/OC Trimix Instructor Trainer CCR Training to Mixed Gas in Switzerland, France, UK & Germany on Megalodon/COPIS-Megalodon/KISS/Sport KISS/Ouroboros/rEvo/Inspiration/Evolution/Sentinel www.zerogravitydiving.com Rebreather World Terms & Conditions
(Offline)

28th May 2005, 10:41	#4 (permalink)
Ken Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Megalodon Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: New York City Posts: 326	Quote: (Originally Posted by wrecked) I plan to do all my dives with my scooter. The main danger I can see in doing this is the possible sudden changes with depth. Though this is only in dives down to 30mtrs. Can anyone point out any issues or problems I may encounter in using the CCR with my Diverite scooter. I scooter with the Insp./open circuit. Big question is the word "all". Could you elaborate? I second the advice of Rob and Dave. The CCR is a unique tool to master, as are the nuances of operating a scooter.
(Offline)

28th May 2005, 11:45	#5 (permalink)
Pawel New Member Current Rebreather/s: Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 68	Sonds like having sex on a motorcycle . Assuming you are doing a decent course, the instructor will make sure you have task overloading that you will not have time to even scratch your bum, not to mention operating the scooter. Even a scooter with a sadle has to be operated with one hand. You will be missing at least 2 hands. Just my thoughts. Cheers, Pawel
(Offline)

28th May 2005, 13:11	#6 (permalink)
cedricverdier S21 M.I.B. Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Worldwide! Posts: 497	Quote: (Originally Posted by wrecked) I plan to do all my dives with my scooter. The main danger I can see in doing this is the possible sudden changes with depth. Though this is only in dives down to 30mtrs. Can anyone point out any issues or problems I may encounter in using the CCR with my Diverite scooter. Hi, I like riding a scooter. It's a lot of fun when you really master your rebreather and if you have the appropriate unit for that (HUD, no danglies, etc). But it takes time to master both of them and to be able to safely use both of them at the same time. And don't make the mistake to think that using a scooter is a lot easier than diving with a CCR. There are a lot of potential hazards (deco, ascent rate, barotrauma, etc) and even more while combining it with a CCR. Cheers __________________ Cedric Verdier PADI Course Director, ANDI-IANTD-PSAI-TDI-DSAT-DAN-NAUI-CMAS Instructor Trainer Trimix (CCR and OC) and Cave Diving Instructor Trainer www.CedricVerdier.com DIRrebreather member
(Offline)

28th May 2005, 15:02	#7 (permalink)
*EBT* Apprentice Luddite Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: UK, Brighton Posts: 1,970	Quote: (Originally Posted by wrecked) I plan to do all my dives with my scooter. The main danger I can see in doing this is the possible sudden changes with depth. Though this is only in dives down to 30mtrs. Can anyone point out any issues or problems I may encounter in using the CCR with my Diverite scooter. More fundamental than most of the other arguments, if you're new to a CCR, you need to "feel" its bouyancy characteristic to learn how to handle it etc. Scootering screws your ability to do this, unless you're very experienced on the CCR. In short, it'll make learning harder, dont do it __________________ Eagles May Soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines! Rebreather World Terms of service Real diving t-shirts for real divers
(Offline)

28th May 2005, 16:02	#8 (permalink)
lizardland Yak Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: North... Posts: 1,302	If you use a DSV with an integrated OC bailout reg then a lot of people have problems with it freeflowing. I'm a newbie Rebreather diver but I've used scooters for years, what would worry me is hitting something. The Inspiration has a fair bit of exposed plastic on it. Rodney Nairne (Silent Submersion) did an excellent bit of advice on another forum at: http://www.aberdeenwatersports.com/f...&get=last#6129 "Hello Jim, I think you dive an Inspiration. Like most rebreathers, they tend to put you in a heads up position which is not ideal for scootering. Plus it's more difficult to get the bailout/deco cylinders to ride close to you chest, even if the are aluminium. Take a look at Edoardo on an Inspiration in this video: http://www.silent-submersion.com/Vid...rnadeShort.wmv and compare the body trim and how close the neck of the cylinders are in this video: http://www.silent-submersion.com/Videos/Suzie01.wmv After seeing this video, Edoardo changed the weighting so he is more horizontal and a lot faster/efficient while scootering. (I'm guessing by adding more weight at the top of the unit?) He has also shortened the breathing hoses to the ideal length, and rigged the handsets to be tight to his body and not waving below him. Lastly, although he was already using aluminium stages, he has rigged them so they ride a lot tighter to the body. Another tip, make sure your setup allows to to tilt your head all the way back. Otherwise you can't see where you are going when you are horizontal! And then you tend to compensate by going more heads up. I hope this helps for your next trial! -Rodney Nairne www.silent-submersion.com" Cheers, Stuart
(Offline)

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode