When did YOU jump?

teal · 30th August 2006, 21:33

Hi all, VERY new here and trying to learn.

One thing I have heard in the past is that a diver need not have a bajillion hours (VERY exact technical term.....grin) on OC gear to make the switch to Rebreather. Some instructors prefer newer divers as they don't have to correct any long standing bad habits.

So as someone who is getting back to diving and sees their diving going in a technical direction, that is to say, deep Great Lakes wrecks, Ice diving and hopefuly wreck hunting -- I am looking at the Rebreather as a viable alternative to a huge pile of OC tech gear. What say you on when to move to RB?

While I know an instructor is important - more so than the agency they belong to and I intend to get the best training I can, I was curious as to just where in the dive profile (pun there) you were when you made the switch to Rebreather?

Beginning rec type of diver, AOW, full boogie tec diver or what?

Would you have changed when you decided to make the switch to Rebreather? I think most (being this is a RB site) would say they would have done it sooner as they love RB diving but how soon? What pitfalls do you see with moving to RB quickly after OC?

I understand a cool head, and comfort underwater are important -- but lets assume as an OC diver you are ok being underwater, low vis doesn't bother you (everyone would like 100 ft viz but I have dove in 9 inch viz and while it sucks - doesn't make me go claustrophobic) when discussing when to move over from OC to Rebreather?

Thanks,

teal · 30th August 2006, 22:02

Hmmm - after reading the post I guess I could say it better this way:

If you were to lay out the path for a person to become a Rebreather diver and be able to do it safely, what would it be? Lets assume the person is intelligent and can handle the proceedures needed to complete your path to the RB.

Obvioulsy it would start with OC/OW cert, Nitrox and then .........?

**Gill Envy** · 31st August 2006, 01:18

For me, i went from recreational limits dive master with roughtly 650 dives to nitrox, did about 20 nitrox dives and it dawned on me how valuable but limited nitrox is so I went ass over tea kettle right into the land of back mounted nitrox blender...I will never turn back...i wish i had done this about 150 dives into my OC expereince.

I think it is a good move for someone who really likes diving, has a need for extended range and is willing to accept the fact that is a significant degree of complexity that will take quite some time to get really used to and then some more time to really be comfortable handling all the little things that can bite you in the ass. after that, it's bliss, well, even along the way.

How fast you go down the path seems entirely a matter of ambition, skill, training and ability to dive frequently.

Trukdiver · 31st August 2006, 02:07

I jumped in at dive #160 and will never go back. CCR is such a pleasure.

Before jumping in, I had Deco Procedures and Adv Nitrox under my belt and quite a few deco dives. I had also been qualified as a divemaster. I think the divemaster was useful because of the physics and physiology knowledge that is gained from that program.

teal · 31st August 2006, 03:59

Thanks for the insight.

I think for me it's an adversion to purchasing a bunch of OC equipment to get to a point where I can cross over to Rebreather --- only to never use that equipment again. Bottles, multiple regs, etc to get thru the Trimix courses (which I am getting the feeling would be VERY good to have before RB training) only to let them collect dust in the basement or loos my pants on ebay with them.

I haven't found anyone local that is a Rebreather diver either. (to be honest havent looked hard but they ain't exactly common

) I am assuming I will have to travel a bit to find an instructor too. No big deal and I'll worry bout that when the time comes I guess. I figure I am prob 2 years out from Rebreather? Need to get back to a class and brush up on everything and then dive my arse off.

fubari · 31st August 2006, 04:29

I switched at about 150 open-circuit dives. At that point, I had started working with doubles and taken some baby steps in the techie direction (adv nitrox, deco procedures).

I had been reading about rebreathers for a year or two, thought I had a good idea of the tradeoffs (gas management, risk, maint expense).
I decided that going CCR would be better for me in the long run based on the kinds of dives I want to do (50m plus) because:
1) I was pretty sure I wanted to do longer range dives, so why spend several years nickle-and-diming up a small fortune in techie oc-gear and then buy a rebreather and hope I can sell of of the oc-gear, or just pull the trigger in one big bang (e.g pay twice vs. just once).
2) I wanted the lower bends-risk from the whole "optimal mix" thing.
3) I wouldn't have to buy an SUV to haul my dive gear around.

I'm pretty happy with my choices, and at some point I expect to pretty much be diving mostly heliox. That is cool .

Some days I wish I had started from the beginning on ccr - I didn't expect the ccr learning curve to be as long as it is. I respect it and all, I'm just surprised how much focus it takes (compared to the simplicity of OC) for me to perform at a level I'm satisfied with.

So anyway, that was my motivation. I'm happy today. Ask me again in 3 years if I still think I made a wise choice.

John G.

Johnny Christensen · 31st August 2006, 07:07

I made my switch to Rebreather when I had about 2200 dives. Been doing proper deco diving since 1996 and trimix since 1997. I used to make my living in the diving industry, working both as a recreational and technical instructor.

It just happens that when DiveTech Grand Cayman, opened for business I started diving and training with them. Later on ended up working as a instructor there. In that time, I started seeing all sorts of rebreathers in action. DiveTech where fast becomming popular with the Rebreather divers that wanted to do a bit of traveling.
So I looked at alle the pro and cons, but it was not until 2002 that I made the desicion, and only in 2003 that I made the purchase.

In hindsight, that cost me 1½ seasons of good diving. The breather was a serious pain in the ass, trim was awfull. It only took a slight current to blow me out of course when working in exposed areas. I've had build quality frustrations with the unit. Beeing a motormechanic, I knew what to expect from some british made cars. But I thought that things had changed a bit.
Well I got a good education from pratical use of the unit. When something breaks or is downright stupidly made, it's time to modify the breather.
Now in the last 1½ years I'm starting to approach the capabilities that I had on OC. In the last 6 months I'm starting to push further than my OC setup would have allowed me to do in terms of bottom time. Only I got interupted by a 2 month electronics repair, so I have to borrow stuff from my mate.

So if you got loads of OC experience, be prepaired to having some very frustrating moments when you can't do what you used not having to think twice about doing.
Occationally your temper will enter the "must-kill-the-fu*****-manufacturer-of-this-equipment" mode...
But when you get past this...the breather will allow you some very cool experiences.

Dutchy · 31st August 2006, 09:34

Johnny's got a point I guess. An Rebreather will allow you to boldly go where no man has gone before.
However if you don't have that ambition it might still be worth considering.

I went Sport KISS after some 150-ish dives (With Adv. EANx) and hardly any deco dives. In fact I'm not planning to make them in the near future either. (Although a NDL Rebreather dive may require me to do some when bailing out at the end of the dive)

My point is that you don't have to be a racecar driver to learn to drive a motorcycle. It's a different thing with some common skills...

Starting with Rebreather without any OC experience would be a different thing I guess as CC diving can end in OC diving very quickly (which is where the car/motorcycle comparison becomes flawed)...
I guess you'd empty your tanks surprisingly fast and your boyancy would suddenly be a problem (as unstable)...

Anyways to me the Rebreather is a means to enjoy the recreational dives better (silent, no bubbles) rather than a means to go tec diving.

If the shoe fits...

Soggyfox · 31st August 2006, 10:12

I went ccr after considerng where i thought my diving would be going in the future. I had a number of friends who were already ccr and more on OC all heading slowly towards deeper longer diving. The decision wasn't too difficult i had some luck and could afford the unit and thought to myself why pay for it all twice (OC trimix and then through all the CCR course to trimix).

It was after 130 dives or so and i'd say it felt like a fairly easy move, enough dives to feel relatively happy and comfortable underwater without too many bad habits.

I've not got a great number of hours and its just a case of taking it all nice and steady putting the time in to learn the unit and learn more about myself.

divesight · 31st August 2006, 10:30

I have 15000 hours as a commercial diver so the move recently to Rebreather was purely made on the basis that the unit would prove useful and aide in the work I do... My advise would be to sit down and ask yourself have you a definite use for what can be an expensive/ sometimes unreliable piece of equipment.... Even if you're really comfortable in the water and ultra experienced take your time and build up your experience gradually... Good luck

30th August 2006, 21:33	#1 (permalink)
teal New Member Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Green Bay Posts: 13	When did YOU jump? Hi all, VERY new here and trying to learn. One thing I have heard in the past is that a diver need not have a bajillion hours (VERY exact technical term.....grin) on OC gear to make the switch to Rebreather. Some instructors prefer newer divers as they don't have to correct any long standing bad habits. So as someone who is getting back to diving and sees their diving going in a technical direction, that is to say, deep Great Lakes wrecks, Ice diving and hopefuly wreck hunting -- I am looking at the Rebreather as a viable alternative to a huge pile of OC tech gear. What say you on when to move to RB? While I know an instructor is important - more so than the agency they belong to and I intend to get the best training I can, I was curious as to just where in the dive profile (pun there) you were when you made the switch to Rebreather? Beginning rec type of diver, AOW, full boogie tec diver or what? Would you have changed when you decided to make the switch to Rebreather? I think most (being this is a RB site) would say they would have done it sooner as they love RB diving but how soon? What pitfalls do you see with moving to RB quickly after OC? I understand a cool head, and comfort underwater are important -- but lets assume as an OC diver you are ok being underwater, low vis doesn't bother you (everyone would like 100 ft viz but I have dove in 9 inch viz and while it sucks - doesn't make me go claustrophobic) when discussing when to move over from OC to Rebreather? Thanks, __________________ Andrew
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30th August 2006, 22:02	#2 (permalink)
teal New Member Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Green Bay Posts: 13	Re: When did YOU jump? Hmmm - after reading the post I guess I could say it better this way: If you were to lay out the path for a person to become a Rebreather diver and be able to do it safely, what would it be? Lets assume the person is intelligent and can handle the proceedures needed to complete your path to the RB. Obvioulsy it would start with OC/OW cert, Nitrox and then .........? __________________ Andrew
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31st August 2006, 01:18	#3 (permalink)
Gill Envy Shearwater Copis Diver Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Evolution Other CCR Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: seattle Posts: 1,253	Re: When did YOU jump? For me, i went from recreational limits dive master with roughtly 650 dives to nitrox, did about 20 nitrox dives and it dawned on me how valuable but limited nitrox is so I went ass over tea kettle right into the land of back mounted nitrox blender...I will never turn back...i wish i had done this about 150 dives into my OC expereince. I think it is a good move for someone who really likes diving, has a need for extended range and is willing to accept the fact that is a significant degree of complexity that will take quite some time to get really used to and then some more time to really be comfortable handling all the little things that can bite you in the ass. after that, it's bliss, well, even along the way. How fast you go down the path seems entirely a matter of ambition, skill, training and ability to dive frequently. __________________ Gill Envy ...Because I wasn't born with gills! ><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>
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31st August 2006, 02:07	#4 (permalink)
Trukdiver New Member Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: New Jersey Posts: 38	Re: When did YOU jump? I jumped in at dive #160 and will never go back. CCR is such a pleasure. Before jumping in, I had Deco Procedures and Adv Nitrox under my belt and quite a few deco dives. I had also been qualified as a divemaster. I think the divemaster was useful because of the physics and physiology knowledge that is gained from that program. __________________ Trukdiver CK#245
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31st August 2006, 03:59	#5 (permalink)
teal New Member Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Green Bay Posts: 13	Re: When did YOU jump? Thanks for the insight. I think for me it's an adversion to purchasing a bunch of OC equipment to get to a point where I can cross over to Rebreather --- only to never use that equipment again. Bottles, multiple regs, etc to get thru the Trimix courses (which I am getting the feeling would be VERY good to have before RB training) only to let them collect dust in the basement or loos my pants on ebay with them. I haven't found anyone local that is a Rebreather diver either. (to be honest havent looked hard but they ain't exactly common ) I am assuming I will have to travel a bit to find an instructor too. No big deal and I'll worry bout that when the time comes I guess. I figure I am prob 2 years out from Rebreather? Need to get back to a class and brush up on everything and then dive my arse off. __________________ Andrew
(Offline)

31st August 2006, 04:29	#6 (permalink)
fubari New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 112	Re: When did YOU jump? I switched at about 150 open-circuit dives. At that point, I had started working with doubles and taken some baby steps in the techie direction (adv nitrox, deco procedures). I had been reading about rebreathers for a year or two, thought I had a good idea of the tradeoffs (gas management, risk, maint expense). I decided that going CCR would be better for me in the long run based on the kinds of dives I want to do (50m plus) because: 1) I was pretty sure I wanted to do longer range dives, so why spend several years nickle-and-diming up a small fortune in techie oc-gear and then buy a rebreather and hope I can sell of of the oc-gear, or just pull the trigger in one big bang (e.g pay twice vs. just once). 2) I wanted the lower bends-risk from the whole "optimal mix" thing. 3) I wouldn't have to buy an SUV to haul my dive gear around. I'm pretty happy with my choices, and at some point I expect to pretty much be diving mostly heliox. That is cool . Some days I wish I had started from the beginning on ccr - I didn't expect the ccr learning curve to be as long as it is. I respect it and all, I'm just surprised how much focus it takes (compared to the simplicity of OC) for me to perform at a level I'm satisfied with. So anyway, that was my motivation. I'm happy today. Ask me again in 3 years if I still think I made a wise choice. John G.
(Offline)

31st August 2006, 07:07	#7 (permalink)
Johnny Christensen Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Denmark Posts: 296	Re: When did YOU jump? I made my switch to Rebreather when I had about 2200 dives. Been doing proper deco diving since 1996 and trimix since 1997. I used to make my living in the diving industry, working both as a recreational and technical instructor. It just happens that when DiveTech Grand Cayman, opened for business I started diving and training with them. Later on ended up working as a instructor there. In that time, I started seeing all sorts of rebreathers in action. DiveTech where fast becomming popular with the Rebreather divers that wanted to do a bit of traveling. So I looked at alle the pro and cons, but it was not until 2002 that I made the desicion, and only in 2003 that I made the purchase. In hindsight, that cost me 1½ seasons of good diving. The breather was a serious pain in the ass, trim was awfull. It only took a slight current to blow me out of course when working in exposed areas. I've had build quality frustrations with the unit. Beeing a motormechanic, I knew what to expect from some british made cars. But I thought that things had changed a bit. Well I got a good education from pratical use of the unit. When something breaks or is downright stupidly made, it's time to modify the breather. Now in the last 1½ years I'm starting to approach the capabilities that I had on OC. In the last 6 months I'm starting to push further than my OC setup would have allowed me to do in terms of bottom time. Only I got interupted by a 2 month electronics repair, so I have to borrow stuff from my mate. So if you got loads of OC experience, be prepaired to having some very frustrating moments when you can't do what you used not having to think twice about doing. Occationally your temper will enter the "must-kill-the-fu*****-manufacturer-of-this-equipment" mode... But when you get past this...the breather will allow you some very cool experiences. __________________ www.johnnychristensen.com Wreckphotography from the cold north
(Offline)

31st August 2006, 09:34	#8 (permalink)
Dutchy SK#007 Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Nieuwegein (The Netherlands) Posts: 699	Re: When did YOU jump? Johnny's got a point I guess. An Rebreather will allow you to boldly go where no man has gone before. However if you don't have that ambition it might still be worth considering. I went Sport KISS after some 150-ish dives (With Adv. EANx) and hardly any deco dives. In fact I'm not planning to make them in the near future either. (Although a NDL Rebreather dive may require me to do some when bailing out at the end of the dive) My point is that you don't have to be a racecar driver to learn to drive a motorcycle. It's a different thing with some common skills... Starting with Rebreather without any OC experience would be a different thing I guess as CC diving can end in OC diving very quickly (which is where the car/motorcycle comparison becomes flawed)... I guess you'd empty your tanks surprisingly fast and your boyancy would suddenly be a problem (as unstable)... Anyways to me the Rebreather is a means to enjoy the recreational dives better (silent, no bubbles) rather than a means to go tec diving. If the shoe fits... __________________ = This post is environmentally friendly. It is composed of 100% recycled electrons only. = SK #007
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31st August 2006, 10:12	#9 (permalink)
Soggyfox New Member Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Guildford UK Posts: 21	Re: When did YOU jump? I went ccr after considerng where i thought my diving would be going in the future. I had a number of friends who were already ccr and more on OC all heading slowly towards deeper longer diving. The decision wasn't too difficult i had some luck and could afford the unit and thought to myself why pay for it all twice (OC trimix and then through all the CCR course to trimix). It was after 130 dives or so and i'd say it felt like a fairly easy move, enough dives to feel relatively happy and comfortable underwater without too many bad habits. I've not got a great number of hours and its just a case of taking it all nice and steady putting the time in to learn the unit and learn more about myself.
(Offline)

31st August 2006, 10:30	#10 (permalink)
divesight New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Boat HarbourTasmania Posts: 8	Re: When did YOU jump? I have 15000 hours as a commercial diver so the move recently to Rebreather was purely made on the basis that the unit would prove useful and aide in the work I do... My advise would be to sit down and ask yourself have you a definite use for what can be an expensive/ sometimes unreliable piece of equipment.... Even if you're really comfortable in the water and ultra experienced take your time and build up your experience gradually... Good luck
(Offline)

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