Fiance says NO to me diving with a Rebreather... under the thumb or wot!

VTR

Sort of what I was trying to say about human error, but I'm not sure I agree with you about only using an Rebreather for deep dives/overheads, although these are the areas where the RB's advantages are obvious. I think the advantages for shallower dives (down to 40m) are much greater than OC, you've got the ideal NX mix for any stage/depth of the dive. There are more & more people going over to RB in what may be called the recreational area of diving with these benefits in mind.
But like you say, that's my opinion/everyone to their own.

Cheers

Giles

Manxie

[quote=Andy Del]
At 65 / 30 dives, how are your ex students going to become trimix certified to do 'deepish' wrecks? Man, I was puddling along in the shallows, having a ball, for ages. The trimix and number of dives combined gets my alarm bells ringing.

Then, add going to a 'dive show' and coming back sold on rebreather diving sounds more like good salesmanship, rather than reasoned decision making. Again, my alarm bells, in particular 'this is an accident waiting to happen' ones which are now ringing with those attached blinking lights starting to flash as well!
quote]

One of the pair showed interest in joining my buddy and i on a trimix course, i told him that i was only just confident myself to give it ago (i have 300+ and my buddy has 500+ dives), i checked with the company and they said they would require at least 100 dives to do the basic trimix course. So last i knew thats what he was aiming for, 100 dives then complete the basic trimix next summer when we are due to go back to increase our cert level.. (the way i see it now is it will be a good few more years before he is able to join us on the deep wrecks as they will be relearning how to dive RBs, then in a few years they will be able to do trimix?)

But off they went to the dive show to get wings etc and come back with none but are now dead set on getting RBs. They met the IOMs only Rebreather instructor and he has it seems managed to persude them that this is the way forward. I feel different... hence the posts.

One of the reasons for posting was to gauge your reactions to the number of dives they have done and see if there was a set standard for enrolling on a Rebreather course.. The one with 30 dives is only now completing her advanced padi course with me and going on how she uses a compass id say she will struggle...

Kiam, RE - I would request that you refrain from lumping them into a category of any kind. We have no idea why some of the divers passed on.

I am sorry if i offended, it was not my intention at all. You did actually go on to sum up my feelings 100% after this and i didnt notice i was lumping anyone into a category. Appologies once again.

Thanks to you all for your advice, However, i am not changing my fiance (its taken me ages to find one that dives as it is!) but i will spend as much time reading about the various RBs available etc on this site. I will no doubt be back asking for claification..

Oh and i have actually already booked a Rebreather try dive when we visit ScapaFlow in May.. jesus its actually next week now...... show me the Dreadnaughts!

Toren

I feel your pain...except in my case she's already the old trouble and strife!

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Rob Evans

Take your time mate - analyse the diving you do and work out whether a rebreather would be of benefit to you. Often it isn't..
If your diving is mostly in the 40m range I'd struggle to recommend going Rebreather (my opinion - others may vary) - certainly you'll have no difficulty exploring the Kronpinz on a 12l twinset.

If you're thinking in terms of the deeper stuff, typically 50m+, then realistically the way to go is Rebreather. Gives you plenty of time on an actual factual Dreadnought, such as Audacious - not a million miles from where you are ( and what a wreck! Mmmmmmm turret...)

Be careful though - being pushed into going into rebreathers cos a couple of seriously inexperienced divers have decided that's the way for them is not a smart move. From your posts subsequent to your initial point it's fair to say you know your own mind, so stick with that. Use Rebreather World as a resource to educate yourself as to the advantages and the pitfalls - you've got plenty of time.

Rebreathers aren't inherently dangerous, but it has to be admitted recent events don't show them in a particularly good light. I love mine, been diving it for years and have some absolutely stunning dives on it that I could never have done on OC, but I'm always aware that it could potentially knock me off with very little warning - anal attitudes to kit preparation and keeping an eye on what the thing's doing are ESSENTIAL with this kit.

In my mind, the MOST important thing right now is that you dissuade these two comedians that, at 30/65 dives, they are nowhere near ready for the step to rebreathers. At 30 dives I didn't know my arse from a hole in the ground, but I knew for a fact that I wanted the absolute shiniest flashiest gear I could possibly get a grip on, cos people who should've known better told me that was the way to go. No way was I ready for CCR. 30 dives. Think about it.

Just my groat-and-a-half's worth.

/Rob

Halthron

Is the number of dives a big deal? I would expect the emphasis to be on skills and knowledge instead. Since you're diving with one of them, you can easily gauge the ability but I have dived with people who have ten times my number of dives but still aren't very good at bouyancy control, situational awareness or independent thinking.

shell-back

Ok , I have to disagree with the idea that a Rebreather is only for the person who wants to go deep or use a mix, sure the advantages are there and are a more practical use of gear and your money for that level of diver. Its like orange juice "its not just for breakfast anymore" .

The students with the 30/65 dives should not be excluded from the joys of rebreather diving. Because someone owns a rebreather is not a testament to the persons skill level or there cert beyond the standard MOD 1. If student walks into the shop and wants to buy a rebreather and has the cert or wants the class then we go from there. they are no different then a open water student that has been told of there depth limit recommended by the training agency and hopefully repeated by there instructor.

imagine this
( "sorry sir you can't by that regulator It high performance and used by much more experienced divers that dive beyond your limit, ya it works like a gem but are you really ready for that?")

Keep reading posts and please don't pee on your Buddy's flaming pant leg.

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chrisch

I see a lot of folk wanting the latest and greatest just as Rob describes.

What would worry me is that I have also seen a very large number of these types of folk leave the sport altogether over the years.

Diving is not a competative sport, but as soon as some divers realise there are levels of diving and that some are more "advanced" than others they start the "ticket race". Once you have all the tickets there's nothing left to go for and they realise the novelty has worn off.

While it might not be totally nececcary at least a few hundred dives over 2 or 3 years suggests a genuine interest in the actual diving not collecting badges....

Chris

Dutchy

I set my goal at visiting a specific wreck in the North Sea a while ago. Having been narced badly at elphinstone at 30 meters allready I've been reluctant to go deeper than that for a long time. I hated having to go to 42 meters on air for my Advanced EANx level. The botom line is that now that I have a Rebreather and I am capable of taking some of the END off, I'll have to have a very good reason to get deeper than lets say 35m.

Why still a Rebreather?

The weight is an issue. Climbing up a ladder with a twin twelve, lead and other gear isn't exactly my idea of fun espicially with a moving boat and swell.

The bubbles. My idea of diving is the aquarium experience. I did dives walking out of the beach and lying motionless on the bottom for an hour. Bubbles are known to spoil a lot of good encounters. I know I repeat myself here but I've seen more sharks snurkling than diving although my dive count is considerably higher.

The following were not my main arguments to go for one but are sometimes used to support such a decision:

-Savings on expensive gases. He is far more expensive in Europe that USA so that may or may not apply to you.
-Warm, moist air, hence you are less likely to dehydrate and stay warmer.
-The ability to reduce your logistical problems when going somewhere remote. A 15l of oxygen and a fill whip may get you sufficient fills even without a booster. But this argument isn't always valid. If you get bring sorb or ogygen but have to get it at the divesite that may be a bigger problem.
-Reduced deco obligation. As long as all goes well and you don't bail out your deco obligation is shorter. By keeping pPO2 at the same level while ascending you gas off faster than with your bottom mix. Provided you have a decent bail-out strategy you can use up the advantage by staying down longer.
-The savy tech look . I can't say my fascination for technique and system design didn't help in opting for a Rebreather. Of all the reasons this is probably the worst one I can think of.

Most of these advantages can be enjoyed starting from mod1 allready. And yes I know mod1 allows only NDL dives, but it nice to know that if you have to stay longer or go deeper the penalty for it is less.

There are plenty other considerations I guess but it requires ploughing through the Rebreather World site. In addition there's some literature around. I found Jeffrey Boznic's book Mastering rebreathers a very informative source. It might give you a better understanding about what you're about to do. No disrespect intended but the posts here are mostly without drawing the context and by nature very brief. With a solid background they are going to make more sense. But then again it only my 2c (euro cent that is)

Rene
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0941332969/102-2071101-5878520?v=glance&n=283155

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JonnyB

Guys is this actually true?
When i did my first certification on rebreather, i was told that i could do up to 15minutes of deco and use any trimix blend i wanted.
That was with IANTD.

/Jonny

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Dutchy

For me that's true. IANTD Advanced EANx allowed me to dive to 42m with a maximum of 15 minutes accelerated decompresion (on EAN50) So in fact that was even more than a regular 15 minutes obligation.

ANDI sets the limits for mod1 back to 40m and NDL dives..... I've been struggling with the IANTD standard but I guess you're right about that limit not being reduced. In fact the line of thought behind it is a bit different alltogether.
An open circuit trimix certification remains valid on CCR (under certain conditions)...

The bottom line is I guess that it depends on the agency. And for the record I'm not promoting any agency over another. All I want to do is to become certified for the dives I want to do. So my target depth remains 45m on Normoxic trimix to get an end of some 25m. Whether IANTD, ANDI, TDI I don't care. Ultimately I beleive in instructors over agencies.

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