Fiance says NO to me diving with a Rebreather... under the thumb or wot!

Manxie · 2nd May 2006, 15:43

Ive been contemplating buying a rebreather for a year or so, but have been seriously put of by reading about the so called unexplained deaths that seem to arrise.

Now i Know that deaths in diving are fairly common, but to myself and my Fiance it appears that a high percentage of fatalitites have involved a rebreather.

What concerns me is the deaths were the diver was found floating unconsious and was never revived (or similar). In these cases it seems to me that the diver has not had chance to swap to the bail out system.

Now i have always promised myself I will look at RBs in the next 5 years or so (once ive completed my Trimix cert etc) when hopefully technology has moved on. But two of my old students have recently visited the dive show and appear to have been converted and are now saving up the £5000 or so each that its going to cost them to get started. As i dive with them weekly and dont wanna be left out ive decided to look into RBs more closely and see if i can be converted too.

I spoke with my missis last night about it and she says that she doesnt want me diving with one at all and will never (no matter wot i say) use one. But i recon i can talk her round..

However, i would need to be 100% that what i was doing was as safe (well as safe as diving Air to 50m!)

I do of course know lots of people in the dive industry who use RBs and they all rate them highly, but i think my main concerns are of dying for unexplained reasons. I love the sport but still dont want to pay the ultimate price for doing it.

What do you guys think, im sure you have had this topic raised before (just cant seem to find it). I am aware of the recent advances in Rebreather technology (HUD warning lights etc) and was wondering what you guys all think to the above... am i being overly cautious?

Also, with regards to qualifying dives, do you have to have a set amount before you can enrol on a Rebreather course?

thanks for taking the time to read this.

Drmike · 2nd May 2006, 15:51

Quote: (Originally Posted by Manxie)

However, i would need to be 100% that what i was doing was as safe (well as safe as diving Air to 50m!)
.

Diving will never be 100% safe.

Tech diving IS dangerous some people (sometimes very experienced people) WILL and DO die doing it.

One should of course do all one can to make it as safe as possible - but lets not kid ourselves it is a dangerous sport - some deaths are inevitable.

Manxie · 2nd May 2006, 15:59

Yeah i fully understand that diving will never be 100% safe, there is always that unforceen factor hiding in the depths. I also understand that my diving on Air to 40 - 50m is probably more dangerous than Rebreather diving, i suppose its what you know.

But reading through the BSAC reports on incidents, it appears that with OC they are at least able to identify what went wrong so we can learn from the accidents of others. Information about Incidents involving RBs seem much more scarce, as a result its difficult to make an informed decision.

Hope this makes sense..

Philip Greenwood · 2nd May 2006, 16:00

There is nothing wrong with caution.

What makes you think that you would be left out?

Deaths are not common. The need for a Rebreather should be based upon your actual diving need, not to be left out. Take your advanced tri-mix and do some more diving. Read these forums. Talk to other Rb owners. Let your friends go first with RB training and diving.

When you understand the need for a Rebreather, the risk associated and how good training, prudent use, overcomes risk.You will have the answer for yourself.

As for your Fiance.... knowlege, persuasion=understanding. Then hopefully
you can proceed.

Phil

Manxie · 2nd May 2006, 16:08

sound advice,

Feelings of being left out are coming from me wanting to use a Rebreather for so long but i have been sitting back and seeing how they progress.. seeing them diving with them will pish me off no end!

My plan was to wait and see how they get on, after all they are effectively excluding themselves from the deepish wrecks we plan on checking out on completion of the trimix as they will have to start from scratch

Also one has done 65 dives in total and the other has only done 30 max.. this to me seems very little to be considering this move...

sensor330 · 2nd May 2006, 16:10

Quote: (Originally Posted by Manxie)

What concerns me is the deaths were the diver was found floating unconsious and was never revived (or similar). In these cases it seems to me that the diver has not had chance to swap to the bail out system.

I spoke with my missis last night about it and she says that she doesnt want me diving with one at all and will never (no matter wot i say) use one. But i recon i can talk her round..

However, i would need to be 100% that what i was doing was as safe (well as safe as diving Air to 50m!)

but i think my main concerns are of dying for unexplained reasons. I love the sport but still dont want to pay the ultimate price for doing it.

Well Rebreather diving is certainly more dangerous than OC particularly more so when

you've been doing it for a while. IMHO most of us, not all that have been

diving Rebreather for a while do become complacent and definitely take risks that we

may not of when we first started out. I think you may have all ready

answered your your question in regards to dying for unexplained reasons

though. If your can't except this fact than Rebreather are not for you because this

can and will continue to happen. Maybe not all these death are Rebreather specific

but I would bet that some of them are.

Scott

mverick · 2nd May 2006, 16:23

An awful lof of people have died diving on the Andrea Doria. Not diving a Rebreather.

If you dive deep. Risk's are higher. Once man found in First Class bar, if I remember right, had breathed his tanks to MT. Never tried to use his bailout tanks. He wasn't tangled up in wire. Just floating there. Thought, he went unconscious and breathed his tanks MT while out. Now, speculation is a bear. But with a Rebreather and a Full Face Mask. He'd of had 5 hours or so of air. If not more. Knocked out on a Prism or Boris. Probably around 9 hours. For rescuers to find him. For deep wreck. I want as much air as possible. RB's are that.

You buy the ticket and you take your chances.

shell-back · 2nd May 2006, 16:56

Quote:

What do you guys think, im sure you have had this topic raised before (just cant seem to find it). I am aware of the recent advances in Rebreather technology (HUD warning lights etc) and was wondering what you guys all think to the above... am i being overly cautious?

there is no such thing as overly cautious. I would repeat myself with the words "ignorance breeds fear and fear breeds prejudice". If you take the time to really investigate the current rebreathers on the market and the science behind them you will be not only a better diver but you will have a informed approach to explaining the benefits and the pros and cons of the units, which I would assume will lead you to diving one.

Its easy to say that they are dangerous and the are complicated beyond the point of practicality. Take the time to really look at what it is they are doing and why, what makes them work the basic science of of the systems .

Start with the KISS philosophy and ideology. You will find a wealth of knowledge on the Rebreather World. Read it all and then form your opinions then read it again and ask questions. repeat this cycle and you will remain ever vigilant and most importantly alive.

you are on the right path!

VTR · 2nd May 2006, 16:57

Quote: (Originally Posted by Manxie)

Ive been contemplating buying a rebreather for a year or so, but have been seriously put of by reading about the so called unexplained deaths that seem to arrise.

Now i Know that deaths in diving are fairly common, but to myself and my Fiance it appears that a high percentage of fatalitites have involved a rebreather.

What concerns me is the deaths were the diver was found floating unconsious and was never revived (or similar). In these cases it seems to me that the diver has not had chance to swap to the bail out system.

Now i have always promised myself I will look at RBs in the next 5 years or so (once ive completed my Trimix cert etc) when hopefully technology has moved on. But two of my old students have recently visited the dive show and appear to have been converted and are now saving up the £5000 or so each that its going to cost them to get started. As i dive with them weekly and dont wanna be left out ive decided to look into RBs more closely and see if i can be converted too.

I spoke with my missis last night about it and she says that she doesnt want me diving with one at all and will never (no matter wot i say) use one. But i recon i can talk her round..

However, i would need to be 100% that what i was doing was as safe (well as safe as diving Air to 50m!)

I do of course know lots of people in the dive industry who use RBs and they all rate them highly, but i think my main concerns are of dying for unexplained reasons. I love the sport but still dont want to pay the ultimate price for doing it.

What do you guys think, im sure you have had this topic raised before (just cant seem to find it). I am aware of the recent advances in Rebreather technology (HUD warning lights etc) and was wondering what you guys all think to the above... am i being overly cautious?

Also, with regards to qualifying dives, do you have to have a set amount before you can enrol on a Rebreather course?

thanks for taking the time to read this.

Get a new fiance!!!

Ok, joking aside, I think there's far too much of the 'Rebreather's will kill you' talk, mostly on unfounded information or rumours that get out of hand/exagerated. As far as I know, there hasn't been a death that can be attributed to a fault with an RB unit, but mostly down to user error/bad training/lazyness. You can die on OC if you've had bad training or if the user is lazy/incompetent.

Cheers

Giles.

Drmike · 2nd May 2006, 17:38

Quote: (Originally Posted by VTR)

Get a new fiance!!!

Ok, joking aside, I think there's far too much of the 'Rebreather's will kill you' talk, mostly on unfounded information or rumours that get out of hand/exagerated. As far as I know, there hasn't been a death that can be attributed to a fault with an RB unit, but mostly down to user error/bad training/lazyness. You can die on OC if you've had bad training or if the user is lazy/incompetent.

Cheers

Giles.

It doesnt matter if the units are faultless, thats not the point.

Humans will always make mistakes and will always get complacent (its human nature)..even the best do - as we have seen

OC is more forgiving of mistakes and complacency than a Rebreather if for no other reason than its simpler.

IMO unless you have a real need for one (deep dives or overheads, where the benefit of extended gas outweigh the risks) Id keep well away!! Just my opinion - nobody has to agree.

2nd May 2006, 15:43	#1 (permalink)
Manxie New Member Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: May 2006 Location: Isle of Man Posts: 7	Fiance says NO to me diving with a Rebreather... under the thumb or wot! Ive been contemplating buying a rebreather for a year or so, but have been seriously put of by reading about the so called unexplained deaths that seem to arrise. Now i Know that deaths in diving are fairly common, but to myself and my Fiance it appears that a high percentage of fatalitites have involved a rebreather. What concerns me is the deaths were the diver was found floating unconsious and was never revived (or similar). In these cases it seems to me that the diver has not had chance to swap to the bail out system. Now i have always promised myself I will look at RBs in the next 5 years or so (once ive completed my Trimix cert etc) when hopefully technology has moved on. But two of my old students have recently visited the dive show and appear to have been converted and are now saving up the £5000 or so each that its going to cost them to get started. As i dive with them weekly and dont wanna be left out ive decided to look into RBs more closely and see if i can be converted too. I spoke with my missis last night about it and she says that she doesnt want me diving with one at all and will never (no matter wot i say) use one. But i recon i can talk her round.. However, i would need to be 100% that what i was doing was as safe (well as safe as diving Air to 50m!) I do of course know lots of people in the dive industry who use RBs and they all rate them highly, but i think my main concerns are of dying for unexplained reasons. I love the sport but still dont want to pay the ultimate price for doing it. What do you guys think, im sure you have had this topic raised before (just cant seem to find it). I am aware of the recent advances in Rebreather technology (HUD warning lights etc) and was wondering what you guys all think to the above... am i being overly cautious? Also, with regards to qualifying dives, do you have to have a set amount before you can enrol on a Rebreather course? thanks for taking the time to read this. Last edited by Manxie : 2nd May 2006 at 15:48.
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2nd May 2006, 15:51	#2 (permalink)
Drmike Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Ouroboros Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,328	Re: Fiance says NO to me diving with a Rebreather... under the thumb or wot! Quote: (Originally Posted by Manxie) However, i would need to be 100% that what i was doing was as safe (well as safe as diving Air to 50m!) . Diving will never be 100% safe. Tech diving IS dangerous some people (sometimes very experienced people) WILL and DO die doing it. One should of course do all one can to make it as safe as possible - but lets not kid ourselves it is a dangerous sport - some deaths are inevitable. __________________ Cave diving is a sport Wreck diving is a sport Diving in general is a sport 'Rebreather diving' is not a sport its the delusional obsession with a highly dangerous and often inappropriate piece of equipment
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2nd May 2006, 15:59	#3 (permalink)
Manxie New Member Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: May 2006 Location: Isle of Man Posts: 7	Re: Fiance says NO to me diving with a Rebreather... under the thumb or wot! Yeah i fully understand that diving will never be 100% safe, there is always that unforceen factor hiding in the depths. I also understand that my diving on Air to 40 - 50m is probably more dangerous than Rebreather diving, i suppose its what you know. But reading through the BSAC reports on incidents, it appears that with OC they are at least able to identify what went wrong so we can learn from the accidents of others. Information about Incidents involving RBs seem much more scarce, as a result its difficult to make an informed decision. Hope this makes sense..
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2nd May 2006, 16:00	#4 (permalink)
Philip Greenwood New Member Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Canada Posts: 40	Re: Fiance says NO to me diving with a Rebreather... under the thumb or wot! There is nothing wrong with caution. What makes you think that you would be left out? Deaths are not common. The need for a Rebreather should be based upon your actual diving need, not to be left out. Take your advanced tri-mix and do some more diving. Read these forums. Talk to other Rb owners. Let your friends go first with RB training and diving. When you understand the need for a Rebreather, the risk associated and how good training, prudent use, overcomes risk.You will have the answer for yourself. As for your Fiance.... knowlege, persuasion=understanding. Then hopefully you can proceed. Phil __________________ Phil
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2nd May 2006, 16:08	#5 (permalink)
Manxie New Member Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: May 2006 Location: Isle of Man Posts: 7	Re: Fiance says NO to me diving with a Rebreather... under the thumb or wot! sound advice, Feelings of being left out are coming from me wanting to use a Rebreather for so long but i have been sitting back and seeing how they progress.. seeing them diving with them will pish me off no end! My plan was to wait and see how they get on, after all they are effectively excluding themselves from the deepish wrecks we plan on checking out on completion of the trimix as they will have to start from scratch Also one has done 65 dives in total and the other has only done 30 max.. this to me seems very little to be considering this move...
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2nd May 2006, 16:10	#6 (permalink)
sensor330 Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Posts: 585	Re: Fiance says NO to me diving with a Rebreather... under the thumb or wot! Quote: (Originally Posted by Manxie) What concerns me is the deaths were the diver was found floating unconsious and was never revived (or similar). In these cases it seems to me that the diver has not had chance to swap to the bail out system. I spoke with my missis last night about it and she says that she doesnt want me diving with one at all and will never (no matter wot i say) use one. But i recon i can talk her round.. However, i would need to be 100% that what i was doing was as safe (well as safe as diving Air to 50m!) but i think my main concerns are of dying for unexplained reasons. I love the sport but still dont want to pay the ultimate price for doing it. Well Rebreather diving is certainly more dangerous than OC particularly more so when you've been doing it for a while. IMHO most of us, not all that have been diving Rebreather for a while do become complacent and definitely take risks that we may not of when we first started out. I think you may have all ready answered your your question in regards to dying for unexplained reasons though. If your can't except this fact than Rebreather are not for you because this can and will continue to happen. Maybe not all these death are Rebreather specific but I would bet that some of them are. Scott
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2nd May 2006, 16:23	#7 (permalink)
mverick ScubaPimp Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 545	Re: Fiance says NO to me diving with a Rebreather... under the thumb or wot! An awful lof of people have died diving on the Andrea Doria. Not diving a Rebreather. If you dive deep. Risk's are higher. Once man found in First Class bar, if I remember right, had breathed his tanks to MT. Never tried to use his bailout tanks. He wasn't tangled up in wire. Just floating there. Thought, he went unconscious and breathed his tanks MT while out. Now, speculation is a bear. But with a Rebreather and a Full Face Mask. He'd of had 5 hours or so of air. If not more. Knocked out on a Prism or Boris. Probably around 9 hours. For rescuers to find him. For deep wreck. I want as much air as possible. RB's are that. You buy the ticket and you take your chances.
(Online)

2nd May 2006, 16:56	#8 (permalink)
shell-back I do all my own stunts Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Dolphin Ray Azimuth Other SCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Dolphin Ray Azimuth Other SCR Home Build Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: middle of US Posts: 475	Re: Fiance says NO to me diving with a Rebreather... under the thumb or wot! Quote: What do you guys think, im sure you have had this topic raised before (just cant seem to find it). I am aware of the recent advances in Rebreather technology (HUD warning lights etc) and was wondering what you guys all think to the above... am i being overly cautious? there is no such thing as overly cautious. I would repeat myself with the words "ignorance breeds fear and fear breeds prejudice". If you take the time to really investigate the current rebreathers on the market and the science behind them you will be not only a better diver but you will have a informed approach to explaining the benefits and the pros and cons of the units, which I would assume will lead you to diving one. Its easy to say that they are dangerous and the are complicated beyond the point of practicality. Take the time to really look at what it is they are doing and why, what makes them work the basic science of of the systems . Start with the KISS philosophy and ideology. You will find a wealth of knowledge on the Rebreather World. Read it all and then form your opinions then read it again and ask questions. repeat this cycle and you will remain ever vigilant and most importantly alive. you are on the right path! __________________ The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance -- it is the illusion of knowledge. ----Daniel Boorstin Billy Beal SDITDI IT #3507 Rebreather World FIGJAM commitee member
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2nd May 2006, 16:57	#9 (permalink)
VTR New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Devon Posts: 39	Re: Fiance says NO to me diving with a Rebreather... under the thumb or wot! Quote: (Originally Posted by Manxie) Ive been contemplating buying a rebreather for a year or so, but have been seriously put of by reading about the so called unexplained deaths that seem to arrise. Now i Know that deaths in diving are fairly common, but to myself and my Fiance it appears that a high percentage of fatalitites have involved a rebreather. What concerns me is the deaths were the diver was found floating unconsious and was never revived (or similar). In these cases it seems to me that the diver has not had chance to swap to the bail out system. Now i have always promised myself I will look at RBs in the next 5 years or so (once ive completed my Trimix cert etc) when hopefully technology has moved on. But two of my old students have recently visited the dive show and appear to have been converted and are now saving up the £5000 or so each that its going to cost them to get started. As i dive with them weekly and dont wanna be left out ive decided to look into RBs more closely and see if i can be converted too. I spoke with my missis last night about it and she says that she doesnt want me diving with one at all and will never (no matter wot i say) use one. But i recon i can talk her round.. However, i would need to be 100% that what i was doing was as safe (well as safe as diving Air to 50m!) I do of course know lots of people in the dive industry who use RBs and they all rate them highly, but i think my main concerns are of dying for unexplained reasons. I love the sport but still dont want to pay the ultimate price for doing it. What do you guys think, im sure you have had this topic raised before (just cant seem to find it). I am aware of the recent advances in Rebreather technology (HUD warning lights etc) and was wondering what you guys all think to the above... am i being overly cautious? Also, with regards to qualifying dives, do you have to have a set amount before you can enrol on a Rebreather course? thanks for taking the time to read this. Get a new fiance!!! Ok, joking aside, I think there's far too much of the 'Rebreather's will kill you' talk, mostly on unfounded information or rumours that get out of hand/exagerated. As far as I know, there hasn't been a death that can be attributed to a fault with an RB unit, but mostly down to user error/bad training/lazyness. You can die on OC if you've had bad training or if the user is lazy/incompetent. Cheers Giles.
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2nd May 2006, 17:38	#10 (permalink)
Drmike Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Ouroboros Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,328	Re: Fiance says NO to me diving with a Rebreather... under the thumb or wot! Quote: (Originally Posted by VTR) Get a new fiance!!! Ok, joking aside, I think there's far too much of the 'Rebreather's will kill you' talk, mostly on unfounded information or rumours that get out of hand/exagerated. As far as I know, there hasn't been a death that can be attributed to a fault with an RB unit, but mostly down to user error/bad training/lazyness. You can die on OC if you've had bad training or if the user is lazy/incompetent. Cheers Giles. It doesnt matter if the units are faultless, thats not the point. Humans will always make mistakes and will always get complacent (its human nature)..even the best do - as we have seen OC is more forgiving of mistakes and complacency than a Rebreather if for no other reason than its simpler. IMO unless you have a real need for one (deep dives or overheads, where the benefit of extended gas outweigh the risks) Id keep well away!! Just my opinion - nobody has to agree. __________________ Cave diving is a sport Wreck diving is a sport Diving in general is a sport 'Rebreather diving' is not a sport its the delusional obsession with a highly dangerous and often inappropriate piece of equipment
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