Tech Transition

Otter · 24th January 2006, 22:54

Presuming that I will end up on CCRs in the not too distant future, does it make sense to do a full cadre of tech training on OC THEN go CCR or should I skip OC.

My choices seem to be Adv Nitrox/ Deco Proc / CCR Training OR

Adv Nitrox / Deco Proc / Technical Diver / Entry Trimix / Trimix THEN CCR later.

I guess what am I asking is the appropriate progression given that I don't plan on spending much time on OC?

ccr_ada · 24th January 2006, 22:59

just go ccr but take it SLOW VERY SLOW

NOW GO HAVE FUN

TordoffR · 24th January 2006, 23:20

If you know that you want CCR do it now. Do not go the open circuit route through trimix, just to start over again. Actually, you are so lucky to be at this crossroads now, instead of looking in your garage at 3 sets of doubles, numerous deco bottles, and tons of regs that you won't need. Not to mention that you would have a bunch of shiny c-cards that cost tons of money, for no reason. Nah, I'm not bitter...just broke!

Scuba_Vixen · 25th January 2006, 00:57

Quote: (Originally Posted by Otter)

Presuming that I will end up on CCRs in the not too distant future, does it make sense to do a full cadre of tech training on OC THEN go CCR or should I skip OC.

My choices seem to be Adv Nitrox/ Deco Proc / CCR Training OR

Adv Nitrox / Deco Proc / Technical Diver / Entry Trimix / Trimix THEN CCR later.

I guess what am I asking is the appropriate progression given that I don't plan on spending much time on OC?

There was a really good thread on this not so long ago. There are a few more on the do OC first side than the go straight to CC side, but both camps have good arguments.

Either way, you'll need adv nitrox, so that's a given.

You'll need deco proceedures as well.

You might as well do them while you're still OC and get them done. The deco bottles you'll need for bailouts later anyway, so it's money spent for usefull gear.

The bigger debate comes about the usefullness of doing OC mix certs, or just wait till you're on CC.

The one opinion is that it's a lot of expensive instruction and additional gear, and that you'll still have to do mix training when you get to CC anyway, so why do it twice.

The counter point is that while it's expensive training, there's a lot to know when it comes to diving mix. If you have to bail on a deep dive, it's going to be to mix, and you're going to be better off for having had OC mix training, knowledge and experience.

The additional benefit of OC mix training first, is that you'll be used to longer run times, more bottles and gas switches and higher task loading, not to mention the more advanced planning required.

Remember too, that if you go right to CCR, by the time you get to mod 2 and 3 for mix, if you don't have OC mix training, your instructor will probably extend the course to cover a lot that you don't know yet, and add some more dives, and it'll end up as not much $$ savings in the long run.

I'm of the opinion that OC mix training first is good, and that it imparts knowledge and experience that make you better able to handle problems when you do get to CC.

Technical diving, and CCRs are expensive hobbies, trying to save a few $$ on training is just false economy.

Darlene

***ScubaDadMiami*** · 25th January 2006, 03:34

Given my total instability on closed circuit now that I am in the midst of changing over from technical diving on open circuit, I am now of the opinion that the time is right for everyone to start on rebreathers from the outset. Get over the learning curve and move on from there.

To me, making the jump is akin to becoming an expert airplane pilot, and then having to fly a helicopter for the first time. Yes, they both fly, and knowing the basics of flying theory can move from one to the other. However, I am pretty confident that the newbie helicopter pilot won't be able to hover perfectly on the first lesson even if an expert at flying an airplane. Why not just learn to fly a helicopter from the outset?

Otter · 25th January 2006, 05:32

You all make good points and thank you very much. While saving money is good, I am more willing to spend the money on training that will be beneficial. Bailout to a mix on OC seems to be a logical requirement vs. me using a fixed wing aircraft to bailout of a helicopter.

Will the CCR class cover what I need for bailout on mix? More training is rarely bad. Rather than looking to save money, I am trying to avoid spending it on gear that will have a short useful life and redeploy to the CCR.

ROB DAVIE · 25th January 2006, 05:45

Hi, Otter! Welcome aboard Rebreather World! It is a great community!

As for the question of how to approach trimix, I started on OC trimix, and went to CCR's.

From that stand-point, I would have to say that the hard part, as most folks will agree, is the OC to CCR transition. Once you get over that hump, the rest is just normal stuff. So, having done it the wrong way, using my hindsight (15/15) I would have to recommend that you go to CCR's, and do your trimix training that way! There really isn't a lot of reason to do it once, and then do it again. You already know how to breathe on a regulator, all you have to do is learn your deco techniques, and gas mixes. Doing a hang on a CCR is nicer from the standpoint that the gas is at least warm and moist!

Rob

deepnark · 25th January 2006, 05:46

Quote: (Originally Posted by Otter)

You all make good points and thank you very much. While saving money is good, I am more willing to spend the money on training that will be beneficial. Bailout to a mix on OC seems to be a logical requirement vs. me using a fixed wing aircraft to bailout of a helicopter.

Will the CCR class cover what I need for bailout on mix? More training is rarely bad. Rather than looking to save money, I am trying to avoid spending it on gear that will have a short useful life and redeploy to the CCR.

as you go along your certs (mod 1,2,3) on ccr more and more time will be spent teaching you the best ways to have you and your kit ready for any bail outs. if you spend your money on mixed gas courses on oc (as alot of us have ) you will oonly have to spend it again to do it on ccr
best of luck
Ray

Jan Schoevaerts · 25th January 2006, 06:39

llo Otter,

I had the same problem last year. After talking with a few instr. CCR and Trimix divers, I made up my mind, and went for CCR.

As already mentioned, going from OC to CCR, take your time to learn your rebreather and your bouyancy. Once you got that under controle make some hours on the machine and go then for Trimix CCR.

That's what everybody told to me and till now I very happy doning so.

have fun.
Jan

rogeringebo · 25th January 2006, 07:13

Hi!
I was in your position 18 months ago and I decided to go with CCR and Im glad I did,Its expensive as it is without doing both.Just take it slow,thats what I did

Cheers
Rodge

24th January 2006, 22:54	#1 (permalink)
Otter New Member Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: SoCal Posts: 12	Tech Transition Presuming that I will end up on CCRs in the not too distant future, does it make sense to do a full cadre of tech training on OC THEN go CCR or should I skip OC. My choices seem to be Adv Nitrox/ Deco Proc / CCR Training OR Adv Nitrox / Deco Proc / Technical Diver / Entry Trimix / Trimix THEN CCR later. I guess what am I asking is the appropriate progression given that I don't plan on spending much time on OC? __________________ "Otters are the Guardian of the Kelp Forest" The Blue Planet http://www.oberlin.us
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24th January 2006, 22:59	#2 (permalink)
ccr_ada 07971475781 Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: uk sorry G.B. Posts: 207	Re: Tech Transition just go ccr but take it SLOW VERY SLOW NOW GO HAVE FUN
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24th January 2006, 23:20	#3 (permalink)
TordoffR Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 115	Re: Tech Transition If you know that you want CCR do it now. Do not go the open circuit route through trimix, just to start over again. Actually, you are so lucky to be at this crossroads now, instead of looking in your garage at 3 sets of doubles, numerous deco bottles, and tons of regs that you won't need. Not to mention that you would have a bunch of shiny c-cards that cost tons of money, for no reason. Nah, I'm not bitter...just broke! __________________ Rich "It's better to burn out, than to fade away."
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25th January 2006, 00:57	#4 (permalink)
Scuba_Vixen e/mCCR Dolphin Pilot Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Home Build Join Date: May 2005 Location: St. Croix USVI Posts: 557	Re: Tech Transition Quote: (Originally Posted by Otter) Presuming that I will end up on CCRs in the not too distant future, does it make sense to do a full cadre of tech training on OC THEN go CCR or should I skip OC. My choices seem to be Adv Nitrox/ Deco Proc / CCR Training OR Adv Nitrox / Deco Proc / Technical Diver / Entry Trimix / Trimix THEN CCR later. I guess what am I asking is the appropriate progression given that I don't plan on spending much time on OC? There was a really good thread on this not so long ago. There are a few more on the do OC first side than the go straight to CC side, but both camps have good arguments. Either way, you'll need adv nitrox, so that's a given. You'll need deco proceedures as well. You might as well do them while you're still OC and get them done. The deco bottles you'll need for bailouts later anyway, so it's money spent for usefull gear. The bigger debate comes about the usefullness of doing OC mix certs, or just wait till you're on CC. The one opinion is that it's a lot of expensive instruction and additional gear, and that you'll still have to do mix training when you get to CC anyway, so why do it twice. The counter point is that while it's expensive training, there's a lot to know when it comes to diving mix. If you have to bail on a deep dive, it's going to be to mix, and you're going to be better off for having had OC mix training, knowledge and experience. The additional benefit of OC mix training first, is that you'll be used to longer run times, more bottles and gas switches and higher task loading, not to mention the more advanced planning required. Remember too, that if you go right to CCR, by the time you get to mod 2 and 3 for mix, if you don't have OC mix training, your instructor will probably extend the course to cover a lot that you don't know yet, and add some more dives, and it'll end up as not much $$ savings in the long run. I'm of the opinion that OC mix training first is good, and that it imparts knowledge and experience that make you better able to handle problems when you do get to CC. Technical diving, and CCRs are expensive hobbies, trying to save a few $$ on training is just false economy. Darlene
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25th January 2006, 03:34	#5 (permalink)
*ScubaDadMiami* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 1,896	Re: Tech Transition Given my total instability on closed circuit now that I am in the midst of changing over from technical diving on open circuit, I am now of the opinion that the time is right for everyone to start on rebreathers from the outset. Get over the learning curve and move on from there. To me, making the jump is akin to becoming an expert airplane pilot, and then having to fly a helicopter for the first time. Yes, they both fly, and knowing the basics of flying theory can move from one to the other. However, I am pretty confident that the newbie helicopter pilot won't be able to hover perfectly on the first lesson even if an expert at flying an airplane. Why not just learn to fly a helicopter from the outset? __________________ Howard Packer IANTD CCR Instructor Miami Beach, Florida CCRDiveTraining.com
(Online)

25th January 2006, 05:32	#6 (permalink)
Otter New Member Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: SoCal Posts: 12	Re: Tech Transition You all make good points and thank you very much. While saving money is good, I am more willing to spend the money on training that will be beneficial. Bailout to a mix on OC seems to be a logical requirement vs. me using a fixed wing aircraft to bailout of a helicopter. Will the CCR class cover what I need for bailout on mix? More training is rarely bad. Rather than looking to save money, I am trying to avoid spending it on gear that will have a short useful life and redeploy to the CCR. __________________ "Otters are the Guardian of the Kelp Forest" The Blue Planet http://www.oberlin.us
(Offline)

25th January 2006, 05:45	#7 (permalink)
ROB DAVIE Administrator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: HOUSTON, REPUBLIC OF TEJAS Posts: 1,120	Re: Tech Transition Hi, Otter! Welcome aboard Rebreather World! It is a great community! As for the question of how to approach trimix, I started on OC trimix, and went to CCR's. From that stand-point, I would have to say that the hard part, as most folks will agree, is the OC to CCR transition. Once you get over that hump, the rest is just normal stuff. So, having done it the wrong way, using my hindsight (15/15) I would have to recommend that you go to CCR's, and do your trimix training that way! There really isn't a lot of reason to do it once, and then do it again. You already know how to breathe on a regulator, all you have to do is learn your deco techniques, and gas mixes. Doing a hang on a CCR is nicer from the standpoint that the gas is at least warm and moist! Rob __________________ [SIZE=2]"CC Rebreathers will become a viable part of tech diving [U]WHEN PIGS FLY[/U]!!"--GI3[/SIZE]
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25th January 2006, 05:46	#8 (permalink)
deepnark Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: norfolk uk Posts: 171	Re: Tech Transition Quote: (Originally Posted by Otter) You all make good points and thank you very much. While saving money is good, I am more willing to spend the money on training that will be beneficial. Bailout to a mix on OC seems to be a logical requirement vs. me using a fixed wing aircraft to bailout of a helicopter. Will the CCR class cover what I need for bailout on mix? More training is rarely bad. Rather than looking to save money, I am trying to avoid spending it on gear that will have a short useful life and redeploy to the CCR. as you go along your certs (mod 1,2,3) on ccr more and more time will be spent teaching you the best ways to have you and your kit ready for any bail outs. if you spend your money on mixed gas courses on oc (as alot of us have ) you will oonly have to spend it again to do it on ccr best of luck Ray
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25th January 2006, 06:39	#9 (permalink)
Jan Schoevaerts New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brussels Belgium Posts: 5	Re: Tech Transition llo Otter, I had the same problem last year. After talking with a few instr. CCR and Trimix divers, I made up my mind, and went for CCR. As already mentioned, going from OC to CCR, take your time to learn your rebreather and your bouyancy. Once you got that under controle make some hours on the machine and go then for Trimix CCR. That's what everybody told to me and till now I very happy doning so. have fun. Jan
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25th January 2006, 07:13	#10 (permalink)
rogeringebo Done with bubbles Current Rebreather/s: Pelagian Other Rebreather/s: Megalodon Classic Kiss Pelagian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Stockholm Sweden Posts: 671	Re: Tech Transition Hi! I was in your position 18 months ago and I decided to go with CCR and Im glad I did,Its expensive as it is without doing both.Just take it slow,thats what I did Cheers Rodge
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