Bouyancy Control - Wing or suit?

JimG · 22nd January 2006, 23:29

Its always a trade-off for me. I keep enough gas in my suit to keep warm and will vent gas out of my wings so I can add more to my suit if I get cold, mostly during decompression. I like to keep a reserve of gas in my wing because I can dump gas out of a wing faster than a suit. Someone on this thread earlier mentioned how complicated it is to deal with gas in three different compartments; wings, suit and counterlungs. I agree, but I have had to learn to deal with it.

JimG
Tampa

dive2dive2000 · 23rd January 2006, 04:28

Quote: (Originally Posted by Andrew-John)

As far as I can see, water temperature has a role in finding out proper strategy here.

Theoretically speaking a good procedure (OC and CCR) could be to fill the suit only to such extent that you feel comfortable and by using the much more accurate wing for balancing as well as maintaining the MLV.

However in cold water the heat loss has to be decreased by using argon as suit gas. You feel cold down there if you don't move enough (camera operation etc). So its time to push more argon into the suit and release dilluent from the wing correspondingly.

In the Nordic countries water temperature under the ice at decompression depths may vary between 1,5..4 oC. The only practical way seems to be to empty the wings totally, catch the bail out decompression cylinders to be heavier, maintain MLV and flush the suit with argon and keep it filled up as much as possible during the decompression. Even this is sometimes not enough to prevent partial hypothermia. Thus we have to arrange lines or use other arrangement to be able to swim and keep warm during the decompression.

Summary, both suit with argon and wings has to be used in cold conditions. Maybe wings could have the priority in the beginning and suit during the end of the dive?

Nice explanation, have some green

bubblefree · 23rd January 2006, 10:51

Dry suit? Are you mad? Brrrrr....

James · 23rd January 2006, 11:24

I use the dry suit for my bouyancy as this reduces the number of sources of bouyancy to control.
The best thing I find about using the suit is that I contol my ascent as "hands free". I have the dump valve on the suit halfway open so I just have to squeeze the suit with my shoulders to release some gas. I just let gas from the loop "blup" past my lips to equalise. Easy!

James.

pchanning · 23rd January 2006, 12:51

Depends where you are in the world - and the season..

For me, temperate climate, membrane suit - drysuit all the way. In winter, cold water - slightly overweighted by 2 kilos makes life alot more comfortable.

I use the wing at the surface.

cheers
p

Janos · 23rd January 2006, 19:06

Thanks all for the responses. I'm slightly surprised that more people didn't change from being OC wing to CC suit.

I used the wing on OC, and am currently experimenting with both CC wing and CC suit. Although CC suit is easier than OC Suit, I still prefer the wing at the moment. This could be because I'm wearing a set of thick Xerotherm artics under my thinsulate, and the suit is a little restricted round my manly calves[1]. I'll keep playing for a little while more.

Janos

[1] - My best feature, according to a girl I once knew, in the biblical sense of the word.

Andrew-John · 3rd February 2006, 16:29

Quote: (Originally Posted by dive2dive2000)

Nice explanation, have some green

How funny!

I was 14 when you were born. Exactly since then I've been diving....

Have some self confidence young....

Andrew John

***sadave*** · 4th February 2006, 06:46

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mr. Greekbird)

In winter, cold water - slightly overweighted by 2 kilos makes life alot more comfortable.

Ahh, the beaty of cave diving.

I personally HATE diving overweighted, so I have made up a set of 3lb "C" weights, with a bit of cave line and a bolt snap tied to each of them, that I leave at the entrance to the cave, or the shot line in a sinkhole. (depends on the water temp how many I bring, but our local caves range from 9 to 16deg C) This system keeps my weighting / trim nice and clean during the dive, and I can clip on some extra weight, fill up the suit, and be niiiice and cosy for the deco.

Best of both worlds.

I guess if you were using a deco station or similar in the ocean, you could leave some there, but like anything ocean diving, you shouldn't rely on it, in case you never made it back to the upline...

HTH, and Enjoy!

Sutty · 5th February 2006, 11:14

Used to just use my suit on O/C (except at the surface). Changed over during my MOD1 course to using wing and just enough in suit to keep me warm. Suit shoulder valve gets opened fully on ascent until nearly at stop depth so its less bother as it dumps easily.
It just seems easier to trim better with the wing.

Shaunzxr · 7th February 2006, 15:57

Quote: (Originally Posted by James)

I use the dry suit for my bouyancy as this reduces the number of sources of bouyancy to control.
The best thing I find about using the suit is that I contol my ascent as "hands free". I have the dump valve on the suit halfway open so I just have to squeeze the suit with my shoulders to release some gas. I just let gas from the loop "blup" past my lips to equalise. Easy!

Same for me

View Poll Results: How did you / do you control your bouyancy?
Used the WING when diving OC, and now use the WING when CCR	49	45.37%
Used the WING when diving OC, and now use the SUIT when CCR	14	12.96%
Used the SUIT when diving OC, and now use the WING when CCR	5	4.63%
Used the SUIT when diving OC, and now use the SUIT when CCR	36	33.33%
I don't dive in a drysuit, but want to vote in this poll so as not to feel left out.	4	3.70%
Voters: 108. You may not vote on this poll

22nd January 2006, 23:29	#11 (permalink)
JimG New Member Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Florida Posts: 39	Re: Bouyancy Control - Wing or suit? Its always a trade-off for me. I keep enough gas in my suit to keep warm and will vent gas out of my wings so I can add more to my suit if I get cold, mostly during decompression. I like to keep a reserve of gas in my wing because I can dump gas out of a wing faster than a suit. Someone on this thread earlier mentioned how complicated it is to deal with gas in three different compartments; wings, suit and counterlungs. I agree, but I have had to learn to deal with it. JimG Tampa
(Offline)

23rd January 2006, 04:28	#12 (permalink)
dive2dive2000 PRISM DIVER & LUVIN IT! Current Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 788	Re: Bouyancy Control - Wing or suit? Quote: (Originally Posted by Andrew-John) As far as I can see, water temperature has a role in finding out proper strategy here. Theoretically speaking a good procedure (OC and CCR) could be to fill the suit only to such extent that you feel comfortable and by using the much more accurate wing for balancing as well as maintaining the MLV. However in cold water the heat loss has to be decreased by using argon as suit gas. You feel cold down there if you don't move enough (camera operation etc). So its time to push more argon into the suit and release dilluent from the wing correspondingly. In the Nordic countries water temperature under the ice at decompression depths may vary between 1,5..4 oC. The only practical way seems to be to empty the wings totally, catch the bail out decompression cylinders to be heavier, maintain MLV and flush the suit with argon and keep it filled up as much as possible during the decompression. Even this is sometimes not enough to prevent partial hypothermia. Thus we have to arrange lines or use other arrangement to be able to swim and keep warm during the decompression. Summary, both suit with argon and wings has to be used in cold conditions. Maybe wings could have the priority in the beginning and suit during the end of the dive? Nice explanation, have some green __________________ Safe Diving, Martin "but what's the fun of getting what you need, instead of what you want?"
(Offline)

23rd January 2006, 10:51	#13 (permalink)
bubblefree New Member Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Grand Cayman Posts: 40	Re: Bouyancy Control - Wing or suit? Dry suit? Are you mad? Brrrrr....
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23rd January 2006, 11:24	#14 (permalink)
James New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2005 Location: UK Posts: 59	Re: Bouyancy Control - Wing or suit? I use the dry suit for my bouyancy as this reduces the number of sources of bouyancy to control. The best thing I find about using the suit is that I contol my ascent as "hands free". I have the dump valve on the suit halfway open so I just have to squeeze the suit with my shoulders to release some gas. I just let gas from the loop "blup" past my lips to equalise. Easy! James.
(Offline)

23rd January 2006, 12:51	#15 (permalink)
pchanning PFO free :) Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: fixed! Posts: 454	Re: Bouyancy Control - Wing or suit? Depends where you are in the world - and the season.. For me, temperate climate, membrane suit - drysuit all the way. In winter, cold water - slightly overweighted by 2 kilos makes life alot more comfortable. I use the wing at the surface. cheers p __________________ Cheers Paul The key to enlightenment... is survival.
(Offline)

23rd January 2006, 19:06	#16 (permalink)
Janos "Two Sheds" Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: East Surrey Posts: 594	Re: Bouyancy Control - Wing or suit? Thanks all for the responses. I'm slightly surprised that more people didn't change from being OC wing to CC suit. I used the wing on OC, and am currently experimenting with both CC wing and CC suit. Although CC suit is easier than OC Suit, I still prefer the wing at the moment. This could be because I'm wearing a set of thick Xerotherm artics under my thinsulate, and the suit is a little restricted round my manly calves[1]. I'll keep playing for a little while more. Janos [1] - My best feature, according to a girl I once knew, in the biblical sense of the word. __________________ You can lead a horse to water but you can't climb a ladder with a large bell in both hands - Vic Reeves www.hellfins.com/shed
(Offline)

3rd February 2006, 16:29	#17 (permalink)
Andrew-John New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Helsinki Posts: 26	Re: Bouyancy Control - Wing or suit? Quote: (Originally Posted by dive2dive2000) Nice explanation, have some green How funny! I was 14 when you were born. Exactly since then I've been diving.... Have some self confidence young.... Andrew John __________________ The Truth is down There!
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4th February 2006, 06:46	#18 (permalink)
*sadave* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Brisbane, Queensland Posts: 1,030	Re: Bouyancy Control - Wing or suit? Quote: (Originally Posted by Mr. Greekbird) In winter, cold water - slightly overweighted by 2 kilos makes life alot more comfortable. Ahh, the beaty of cave diving. I personally HATE diving overweighted, so I have made up a set of 3lb "C" weights, with a bit of cave line and a bolt snap tied to each of them, that I leave at the entrance to the cave, or the shot line in a sinkhole. (depends on the water temp how many I bring, but our local caves range from 9 to 16deg C) This system keeps my weighting / trim nice and clean during the dive, and I can clip on some extra weight, fill up the suit, and be niiiice and cosy for the deco. Best of both worlds. I guess if you were using a deco station or similar in the ocean, you could leave some there, but like anything ocean diving, you shouldn't rely on it, in case you never made it back to the upline... HTH, and Enjoy!
(Offline)

5th February 2006, 11:14	#19 (permalink)
Sutty Classic Kiss diver Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Glossop, Derbyshire, UK Posts: 784	Re: Bouyancy Control - Wing or suit? Used to just use my suit on O/C (except at the surface). Changed over during my MOD1 course to using wing and just enough in suit to keep me warm. Suit shoulder valve gets opened fully on ascent until nearly at stop depth so its less bother as it dumps easily. It just seems easier to trim better with the wing.
(Offline)

7th February 2006, 15:57	#20 (permalink)
Shaunzxr Inspo Luver Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: UK, midlands Posts: 87	Re: Bouyancy Control - Wing or suit? Quote: (Originally Posted by James) I use the dry suit for my bouyancy as this reduces the number of sources of bouyancy to control. The best thing I find about using the suit is that I contol my ascent as "hands free". I have the dump valve on the suit halfway open so I just have to squeeze the suit with my shoulders to release some gas. I just let gas from the loop "blup" past my lips to equalise. Easy! Same for me
(Offline)

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