Drysuit inflation with a rebreather

Drmike · 23rd February 2006, 15:56

Quote: (Originally Posted by Genesis)

Obviously if you're not running helium there's no point to another cylinder.

do tell, based on your extensive Rebreather experience, why its obvious

Genesis · 23rd February 2006, 17:35

You need enough gas to inflate the suit WITH.

You NEED to have a separate cylinder if your breathing gas has helium in it. You don't (unless volume is at issue) if its not.

grunzster · 23rd February 2006, 18:18

Thanks for all the suggestions.

I'm going to just run it off the dil for now.

Also decided to go with the Classic instead of the SK.

ccscuba · 24th February 2006, 10:01

Quote: (Originally Posted by Philippe GERIN)

6cft is what I use with Techdiving Limited Suit inflation integrated first stage/valve (part# reg1-argon-air): compact, very balanced, you can refill on your own tank or sneak & grab a few cft on OC tanks.
Best
Philippe

I'm looking for a neat solution to this also.
is this (http://tdl.divebiz.net/index.php?mai...60d1b113db47ba)
what you mean? Looks very neat, but it's all in American.

What's a 6cf bottle? (I use a 1.5l Alu)
Would the valve fit into European cylinder threads?
How do you fill it?

thanks,

Martin

**nigelh** · 24th February 2006, 11:23

What about

Yes it is a suit inflation 'tank' supplied with a Russian Combat Divers IDA64A O2 rebreather. It's marked 150att (pressure?) and I've no idea what the capacity is but that's a rather nice needle valve. Totally non-mag naturally.

**wedivebc** · 24th February 2006, 11:28

Quote: (Originally Posted by ccscuba)

I'm looking for a neat solution to this also.
is this (http://tdl.divebiz.net/index.php?mai...60d1b113db47ba)
what you mean? Looks very neat, but it's all in American.

What's a 6cf bottle? (I use a 1.5l Alu)
Would the valve fit into European cylinder threads?
How do you fill it?

thanks,

Martin

Here let me translate for you, I'm Canadian so I'm bilingual.

Aluminum = aluminium
6cuft = ~1liter
3000 psi = ~200bar

I am not sure about the threads on this one but I assume they are standard size what we would call 3/4 inch. Damn I wish the US dive industry would accept metric and be done with it.

ccscuba · 24th February 2006, 11:45

Got fed up with not knowing what the Americans are talking about, using all the old money stuff.

So here's a spreadsheet to convert cuf-litres and vice versa - not exact, since cuf is a measure of both capacity and pressure but close enough.

m

Jordan · 18th March 2006, 04:01

Well, I sit trying to figure the best way of suit inflation for myself and unfortunately this thread doesn't really help (it didn't hurt either), but anyways I see no sense of bringing 100% argon with me on an overhead dive. I would much rather have a lil bottle of air so that I could potentially use it as a breathing medium. I hate to add another bottle but I don't like running off my dil or bailout because I have helium in them..so hmm add another bottle? I hate to do it - It's just another thing to have to deal with but, I like the idea of using less dil so I can refill less (love diving with these big steel Optima tanks 'cause ya really don't need to visit the fill station as often).

hmmm, anyone have anything to throw at me? Anybody out there willing to share your wisdom ..maybe you have a what-if I haven't thought of? Specifically, I'd like to just hear why one would run their suit inflation from a seperate bottle(or a why if you use a dil or bailout). Philosophize kids-it's the weekend....and humor me for a mundane question but I'm new to this

Thanks, Cyberdiver Jordan

***ScubaDadMiami*** · 18th March 2006, 04:36

Quote: (Originally Posted by Jordan)

hmmm, anyone have anything to throw at me? Any cave divers out there willing to share your wisdom ..maybe you have a what-if I haven't thought of? Specifically, I'd like to just hear why one would run their suit inflation from a seperate bottle(or a why if you use a dil or bailout). Philosophize kids-it's the weekend....and humor me for a mundane question but I'm new to this

Thanks, Cyberdiver Jordan

Okay, true, I am new at this, and I haven't been cave diving worth mentioning in years (though I am looking forward to doing training with John P. on my Optima when I am ready). However, I know the water temps you are speaking of.

I have a nice Argon set up sitting here for over a year that I have yet to use. Even when water temps get into the mid sixties or so Farenheit, even using Trimix, I still have not really seen the need for it if I simply use the right thermals with my drysuit.

For example, within the last month or so, I did a three hour dive in 66 degree water. No problem with my 100 gram Thinsulate thermals. Granted, this particular dive was not with mix. However, I have been in similar temperature water for two hours or so on open circuit mix (15/55) without problems. With CCR, I would imagine that getting chilled will be even less of a problem even with the Helium.

Eventually, you do get to a point where having Helium in the drysuit in colder water does get to be a problem. However, until that day comes, why not just try to keep a minimalist approach to things by trying a change to your thermals first (if you are getting cold now)?

As far as using the gas goes, I guess that could be more of a concern in caves if the caves have lots of ups and downs, causing you to have to keep on injecting large volumes over time. Then, in that case, it might start to get to be worth it to carry an Argon bottle.

I have both a 14 cu.ft. tank and a 6. The 6 isn't so bad. What are you thinking of trying?

Jordan · 18th March 2006, 05:45

Quote: (Originally Posted by ScubaDadMiami)

Okay, true, I am new at this, and I haven't been cave diving worth mentioning in years (though I am looking forward to doing training with John P. on my Optima when I am ready). However, I know the water temps you are speaking of.

I have a nice Argon set up sitting here for over a year that I have yet to use. Even when water temps get into the mid sixties or so Farenheit, even using Trimix, I still have not really seen the need for it if I simply use the right thermals with my drysuit.

For example, within the last month or so, I did a three hour dive in 66 degree water. No problem with my 100 gram Thinsulate thermals. Granted, this particular dive was not with mix. However, I have been in similar temperature water for two hours or so on open circuit mix (15/55) without problems. With CCR, I would imagine that getting chilled will be even less of a problem even with the Helium.

Eventually, you do get to a point where having Helium in the drysuit in colder water does get to be a problem. However, until that day comes, why not just try to keep a minimalist approach to things by trying a change to your thermals first (if you are getting cold now)?

As far as using the gas goes, I guess that could be more of a concern in caves if the caves have lots of ups and downs, causing you to have to keep on injecting large volumes over time. Then, in that case, it might start to get to be worth it to carry an Argon bottle.

I have both a 14 cu.ft. tank and a 6. The 6 isn't so bad. What are you thinking of trying?

Well, first off I am a wuss when it comes to cold. I don't like the idea of thick undies because it's just so damned hot in FL. Will keep thinking...I have a AL13 that has been filled w/ argon now for 3 years and it's never been used. I think I'll just use it to get rid of it and find myself another 13 to give meself a set of light tanks for the ccr. Then I'll probably find a 6 for suit inflation. thanks for sharing Scubadad - looking forward to diving with you - still working on OceanFest weekend schedule

23rd February 2006, 15:56	#21 (permalink)
Drmike Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Ouroboros Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,300	Re: Drysuit inflation with a rebreather Quote: (Originally Posted by Genesis) Obviously if you're not running helium there's no point to another cylinder. do tell, based on your extensive Rebreather experience, why its obvious __________________ Cave diving is a sport Wreck diving is a sport Diving in general is a sport 'Rebreather diving' is not a sport its the delusional obsession with a highly dangerous and often inappropriate piece of equipment
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23rd February 2006, 17:35	#22 (permalink)
Genesis Bubbless Box of Death Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Sunny Florida Posts: 1,396	Re: Drysuit inflation with a rebreather You need enough gas to inflate the suit WITH. You NEED to have a separate cylinder if your breathing gas has helium in it. You don't (unless volume is at issue) if its not. __________________ "A venturesome minority will always be eager to get off on their own, and no obstacles should be placed in their path; let them take risks for Godsake, let them get lost, sunburnt, stranded, drowned, eaten by bears, buried alive under avalanches - that is the right and privilege of any free American." http://www.denninger.net http://www.diversunion.org/liability.htm - Fix the Diving Cert racket
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23rd February 2006, 18:18	#23 (permalink)
grunzster New Member Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: NJ Posts: 37	Re: Drysuit inflation with a rebreather Thanks for all the suggestions. I'm going to just run it off the dil for now. Also decided to go with the Classic instead of the SK.
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24th February 2006, 10:01	#24 (permalink)
ccscuba New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Ouroboros Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2005 Location: England Posts: 73	Re: Drysuit inflation with a rebreather Quote: (Originally Posted by Philippe GERIN) 6cft is what I use with Techdiving Limited Suit inflation integrated first stage/valve (part# reg1-argon-air): compact, very balanced, you can refill on your own tank or sneak & grab a few cft on OC tanks. Best Philippe I'm looking for a neat solution to this also. is this (http://tdl.divebiz.net/index.php?mai...60d1b113db47ba) what you mean? Looks very neat, but it's all in American. What's a 6cf bottle? (I use a 1.5l Alu) Would the valve fit into European cylinder threads? How do you fill it? thanks, Martin
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24th February 2006, 11:23	#25 (permalink)
nigelh New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Brighton, Sussex, UK Posts: 835	Re: Drysuit inflation with a rebreather What about Yes it is a suit inflation 'tank' supplied with a Russian Combat Divers IDA64A O2 rebreather. It's marked 150att (pressure?) and I've no idea what the capacity is but that's a rather nice needle valve. Totally non-mag naturally. __________________ nigelh
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24th February 2006, 11:28	#26 (permalink)
wedivebc Dave Tomblin Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Vancouver Island BC Canada Posts: 1,447	Re: Drysuit inflation with a rebreather Quote: (Originally Posted by ccscuba) I'm looking for a neat solution to this also. is this (http://tdl.divebiz.net/index.php?mai...60d1b113db47ba) what you mean? Looks very neat, but it's all in American. What's a 6cf bottle? (I use a 1.5l Alu) Would the valve fit into European cylinder threads? How do you fill it? thanks, Martin Here let me translate for you, I'm Canadian so I'm bilingual. Aluminum = aluminium 6cuft = ~1liter 3000 psi = ~200bar I am not sure about the threads on this one but I assume they are standard size what we would call 3/4 inch. Damn I wish the US dive industry would accept metric and be done with it. __________________ Cheers, Dave.... Man is the only animal burdened with the knowledge he will eventually die
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18th March 2006, 04:01	#28 (permalink)
Jordan EBT called me stroppy! Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2005 Location: Garner, NC Posts: 226	Re: Drysuit inflation with a rebreather Well, I sit trying to figure the best way of suit inflation for myself and unfortunately this thread doesn't really help (it didn't hurt either), but anyways I see no sense of bringing 100% argon with me on an overhead dive. I would much rather have a lil bottle of air so that I could potentially use it as a breathing medium. I hate to add another bottle but I don't like running off my dil or bailout because I have helium in them..so hmm add another bottle? I hate to do it - It's just another thing to have to deal with but, I like the idea of using less dil so I can refill less (love diving with these big steel Optima tanks 'cause ya really don't need to visit the fill station as often). hmmm, anyone have anything to throw at me? Anybody out there willing to share your wisdom ..maybe you have a what-if I haven't thought of? Specifically, I'd like to just hear why one would run their suit inflation from a seperate bottle(or a why if you use a dil or bailout). Philosophize kids-it's the weekend....and humor me for a mundane question but I'm new to this Thanks, Cyberdiver Jordan __________________ Is it clear? No. Well, let's go anyways. "Those who would sacrifice a little freedom for a little order, will lose both, and deserve neither." Thomas Jefferson Last edited by Jordan : 18th March 2006 at 04:22.
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18th March 2006, 04:36	#29 (permalink)
*ScubaDadMiami* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 2,137	Re: Drysuit inflation with a rebreather Quote: (Originally Posted by Jordan) hmmm, anyone have anything to throw at me? Any cave divers out there willing to share your wisdom ..maybe you have a what-if I haven't thought of? Specifically, I'd like to just hear why one would run their suit inflation from a seperate bottle(or a why if you use a dil or bailout). Philosophize kids-it's the weekend....and humor me for a mundane question but I'm new to this Thanks, Cyberdiver Jordan Okay, true, I am new at this, and I haven't been cave diving worth mentioning in years (though I am looking forward to doing training with John P. on my Optima when I am ready). However, I know the water temps you are speaking of. I have a nice Argon set up sitting here for over a year that I have yet to use. Even when water temps get into the mid sixties or so Farenheit, even using Trimix, I still have not really seen the need for it if I simply use the right thermals with my drysuit. For example, within the last month or so, I did a three hour dive in 66 degree water. No problem with my 100 gram Thinsulate thermals. Granted, this particular dive was not with mix. However, I have been in similar temperature water for two hours or so on open circuit mix (15/55) without problems. With CCR, I would imagine that getting chilled will be even less of a problem even with the Helium. Eventually, you do get to a point where having Helium in the drysuit in colder water does get to be a problem. However, until that day comes, why not just try to keep a minimalist approach to things by trying a change to your thermals first (if you are getting cold now)? As far as using the gas goes, I guess that could be more of a concern in caves if the caves have lots of ups and downs, causing you to have to keep on injecting large volumes over time. Then, in that case, it might start to get to be worth it to carry an Argon bottle. I have both a 14 cu.ft. tank and a 6. The 6 isn't so bad. What are you thinking of trying? __________________ Howard Packer IANTD CCR Instructor Miami Beach, Florida CCRDiveTraining.com
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18th March 2006, 05:45	#30 (permalink)
Jordan EBT called me stroppy! Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2005 Location: Garner, NC Posts: 226	Re: Drysuit inflation with a rebreather Quote: (Originally Posted by ScubaDadMiami) Okay, true, I am new at this, and I haven't been cave diving worth mentioning in years (though I am looking forward to doing training with John P. on my Optima when I am ready). However, I know the water temps you are speaking of. I have a nice Argon set up sitting here for over a year that I have yet to use. Even when water temps get into the mid sixties or so Farenheit, even using Trimix, I still have not really seen the need for it if I simply use the right thermals with my drysuit. For example, within the last month or so, I did a three hour dive in 66 degree water. No problem with my 100 gram Thinsulate thermals. Granted, this particular dive was not with mix. However, I have been in similar temperature water for two hours or so on open circuit mix (15/55) without problems. With CCR, I would imagine that getting chilled will be even less of a problem even with the Helium. Eventually, you do get to a point where having Helium in the drysuit in colder water does get to be a problem. However, until that day comes, why not just try to keep a minimalist approach to things by trying a change to your thermals first (if you are getting cold now)? As far as using the gas goes, I guess that could be more of a concern in caves if the caves have lots of ups and downs, causing you to have to keep on injecting large volumes over time. Then, in that case, it might start to get to be worth it to carry an Argon bottle. I have both a 14 cu.ft. tank and a 6. The 6 isn't so bad. What are you thinking of trying? Well, first off I am a wuss when it comes to cold. I don't like the idea of thick undies because it's just so damned hot in FL. Will keep thinking...I have a AL13 that has been filled w/ argon now for 3 years and it's never been used. I think I'll just use it to get rid of it and find myself another 13 to give meself a set of light tanks for the ccr. Then I'll probably find a 6 for suit inflation. thanks for sharing Scubadad - looking forward to diving with you - still working on OceanFest weekend schedule __________________ Is it clear? No. Well, let's go anyways. "Those who would sacrifice a little freedom for a little order, will lose both, and deserve neither." Thomas Jefferson
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