Previous experience for CCR training?

esc

Tried to search for this but didn't find it so hopefully this has not been discussed thousand times already.

I am personally strong believer that it is the instructor who makes the training good and not the agency so I have a very open mind for different training organizations. That said, I find it bit peculiar that the pre requisities for the CCR training varies so much between the organizations.

Some (atleast NAUI and ANDI to my knowledge) require only basic nitrox course, example the PADI EANx that I have myself while others require some form of Advanced Nitrox training (IANTD CCR for example).

Also there is difference between various forms of Advanced nitrox courses, example if you compare IANTD Advanced nitrox and TDI one...

So what are you (experienced ccr divers) thinking of the various training organizations and the requisities? Any recommendations?

If more precise information is needed as for what unit, I am thinking about Sport KISS in this case and I am currently diving with single tank hogarthian setup and DON'T plan to go for doubles. I decided pretty early on that when I need doubles for dives, it is time for rebreather instead :P

/esc

Mark Chase

I would have thaught some form of Nitrox qualification that alowes you to use any mix up to and including 100% would be the obvious choice. Ultimatly diving CCR to 40m is Nitrox diving isnt it?

Decompresion procedures is required to do deco on the Mod1 TDI cert but I sopose there is an advantage of doing this on the unit of your choice rather than on OC.

ATB

Mark Chase

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jradomski

FOr ANDI this is not EXACTLY true..

ALL ANDI Rebreather classes require CSU or equivalent.. Even though CSU is andi's main "nitrox"class (we have a limited cert called SafeAIr sport diver, This is about equivalent to a basic nitrox cert, but is not necessaryy to take csu) it is roughly equivalent to most agencies Nitrox + advanced nitrox.. Even someone possesing an Advanced nitrox certification isn't automatically qualified, they have to pass the ANDI csu exam to prove equivalency.. This is mandated because many people can not and wouldn;t pass the final rebreather exams.. If a person had a basic nitrox certification AND they pass the CSU exam, they would meet there quirements..

The material from CSU can also be rolled into the rebreather class.. The pre class evaluation is necessary so other students arent held back from a weaker student.. The much of nitrox material covered during the Rebreather class is meant to be a review not learning concepts that should have already been mastered...

TDI seems to agree with the equivalency as well, When I became a CSU instructor way back when, TDI gave me an Advanced nitrox instructor rating..

I never did anything professionally with IANTD so I cant speak there..

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Joe Radomski
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All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.

JPJones

IANTD also requires Advanced Nitrox or equivalent. Most people don't get enough in basic nitrox to understand whats covered in a basic rebreather course. It may be taught in conjunction with the rebreather course.

Ken

A terrific instructor cannot make a great, or competent student. If the student does not have the mental, or physical ability to satisfy the course requirement he/she will not be a great Rebreather diver. I just wanted to clear up that up since I hear that statement way too often. Both participants have to be able to meet at a common point.

As per organizations...I think it matters to a small degree. Most seasoned Rebreather instructors tend to be multi-agency certified and use a hybrid agency approach anyway. The practical experience of the instructor & student are what counts when it comes down to initial training. Here’s a suggestion, ask the instructor, or organization to provide RB course standards. Having standards in hand allows the student a reference point for final expectations and an overview of the course content.

My two cents as an educator: a truly intuitive, facile instructor creates an atmosphere where there is synergy present. If you think back on your best learning experiences these instructors didn’t just talk and shove material at you. They used multiple teaching methods, humor and consummate skill to provide an experience that was memorable, seamless and served as a platform for more enthusiastic learning.

s75952004

ken
nice point .sorry I have to disagree .my scuba experance is very short ,but I have had 4 seperate instructors ,2 were just fav,1 was middle road ,1 just plain bad.
I will explain the one that was just plain bad ,made the course very hard (now I do not mind being pushed ) when do my aow navagation part we had to drag along a tide bottle at surface (tied to 6'of line) with newbies in drysuit at that depth bounyacy was just plain tough .padi manual does not have this requriment (I checked) .he did not connect well with students and allow free flow of discussions . most of the other studenst did not mind the man (maybe it is me).why do I say this well when I took my ow confined ,I failed a couple of the skills .the instructor said go and practise "do not give up"very encouraging ,came back did the skills "no extra money" offer to buy him dinner and he said "my reward is you came back to a sport I love now you will get to enjoy it"
I never have accepted defeat well I am a fighter ,might be bad student and need to do skills more than once to get them right

schford

If you told PADI he added a requirement to the course he would get QA'd the one good think about the PADI philosophy is it very structured with clear requirements and skills per lesson.

Something a technical agency would do well to take on board - it should not be the case as it is currently that the best instructors have the best practical lessons....

Stuart

Ken

Thanks for your commentary. It seems that even before your class started there were some unknown expectations: Example: tide bottle. A literal drag!

With that in mind, genius instructor should have let you and the other participants know up front that there were changes to the original course structure. Stuart mentioned protocol; PADI would require an instructor to get departmental clearance when altering a course. That's the way I remember it.

In my original commentary, I had mentioned that the best learning outcomes occur when instructor and student are on the same page relative to course expectations and skillsets. If the instructor was OK’d he/she should have provided some pre-course experience related to his "new" skillset before initiating it in real time.

The instructor in your second scenario epitomizes what should occur in all teaching experiences.

Additionally, I find a lot of the tech.& recreational teaching materials deficit when it comes to knowing how learners actually learn. Many text authors mistakenly think that knowing the material makes them qualified to write. It doesn’t. It makes them a SME (Subject Matter Expert) only. I’ve seen enough mindless, text based Powerpoint presentations, accompanying stand-up lectures, ambiguous written assessments, non-scaffolding practice equations sets, and nonsensical constructed response questions to make me writhe. I’m sure many of you have too. What’s strange is that given the amount of time it takes to create a comprehensive text that a multitude SME’s don’t bother to ask educational editors, or instructional designers to have a look. What makes these texts passable is the intellectual qualifications of the students beforehand and the skill of instructors who decipher what sometimes amounts to Sanskrit.

EBT

Chaps,

dont be so quick to jump on the instructor. Maybe you'd like to outline what you think is bad with being asked to tow a surface visible marker to indicate your progress on a navigation skill assessment?

Anyway, students and instructors have to work together. You do sometimes get conflicts which have to be managed... but then sometimes you get bad students/instructors. Hopefully BOTH get weeded out.

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