Justyfing the cost of a Rebreather.

Mdemon · 9th September 2005, 16:12

I think the diving, on mix, works out cheaper per dive. And with my last set of OC fills costing £51, that's around 55 OC mix dives.
However, I dive mix all the time, not just the deep ones. So, that increases the benefit.

If you are (ex-?)DIR OC then things look even easier to justify as I believe they dive mix for everything deeper than 35m(?). One guy said it cost him £35 for a fill.

So, if you do 100 dives per year at >35m and you're DIR then that's £3500. More than 100 dives, or looking at Yr 2, then it's cheaper...

But, then again, it's about 10 times what I spent on my last car!

Priorities and all that...

Mark Chase · 9th September 2005, 16:49

Quote: (Originally Posted by Philippe GERIN)

I hear you Stuart,
I ran a few simulations on excel spreadsheet: my conclusion? There is only 1 scenario in which you can justify a breather by the cost alone. This is if you are heavily (meaning at least 4 times a week) engaged in high tech diving on mix and if you need 3 sets of doubles + 4 stages+ regs... and if you choose the Kiss as a breather. If the delta in $ is higher, then safety (mainly deco) is the next reason, still if you are into tech diving. If not, well, you said it: we like technology and/or technique & we can afford it !
Best
Philippe

God knows where you got your fugues from.

Try these:

Drive from my house to Tonbridge wells to drop off tanks
Drive Home
Drive back to pick up tanks
Drive home

Total 140 miles at 25mpg that’s 5 1/2 gallons of petrol so about £25

Twin 15s of 16/50 Trimix £85.00p
Single 10 ltr of 32/30 £20.00
Single 10 of 80% £18.00

Total gas bill for a 60 -70m dive: 148.00p

Using the same calks the gas bill for a 50 -60m dive on twin 12s and two 7s something like 19/35 is about £110.00

A CCR dive will cost me about 80bar of 16/50 out of a 3ltr tank and about 100 bar of 02 Plus a fill of lime.

So roughly £8.00 for the lime £5.00 for the Gas

So a CCR 70m dive cost me £14.00 in materials

I have a 300 bar 12 which I get filled and whip from so I get about 12 fills before I drop to below 120 bar and need to get it toped up. I get 2 dives out of a 3ltr of 02 but I whip top it from a J. So I need one trip to the gas man every 12 dives so 25 / 12 = 2 roughly

So add £2 for travelling and another £0.50p for batteries per dive and allow 1.50 for replacement cells based on 100 dives per year and a new set of cells every year

Total cost of a CCR dive: £16.50

By my estimation that a saving of £93.50 on a shallow mix dive and £131.50 on a deep one. Even on a generous average of £100 per dive I only need 50 60+m dives to pay back the 5000.00 for the unit.

I just had a quick look at my log book. I have done 19 mix dives this year and I am all my dives for the rest of the year will be mix so I reckon Ill get to 25+ mix dives this year. The poor showing is mainly because I had to wait for my Mod 3 cert. Last year I managed 32mix dives.

So in two years I would pay for the unit and the training.

After that I will be saving £2000+ per year.

On top of this they are talking about a 100% increase in the cost of helium

OH and if you want to talk about maintenance costs of running a CCR??? How much do you this little lot cost to keep in test.

ATB

Mark Chase

ROB DAVIE · 9th September 2005, 17:15

Jeez Mark,

And I thought I had a stash of tins and gear taking up space in MY garage...!!

Mark Chase · 9th September 2005, 17:42

Quote: (Originally Posted by ROB DAVIE)

Jeez Mark,

And I thought I had a stash of tins and gear taking up space in MY garage...!!

Do you know what;

After selling all but the 7s a single 12 and the 300 bar 12 I didnt cover the cost of the gas in the tanks

***caveseeker7*** · 9th September 2005, 19:36

Mark makes a good argument for those doing mix dives, but when it comes right down to it, I think Phi hit the nail on the head and Beanie really gave all the answer anyone should need.

William Randolph Hearst once said "Pleasure is worth what you can afford to pay for it."
So he turned the camp site on a central California hill into an estate of 165 rooms and 127 acres of gardens, terraces, pools and walkways.

It's all relative, compared to what my father spend(s) on racing, hunting or golf I could buy one of each breather out there and boat to get 'em to the dive sites.

Philippe GERIN · 9th September 2005, 19:42

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase)

God knows where you got your fugues from.

Oh, Oh!... You're 2 to tell me my numbers are wrong. Hum.. That may be then! But wait, that means I could have justified to the wife to buy more stuff than just my Kiss?

Bugger! I'll review my numbers then!

Best
Philippe

***Louby Lou*** · 9th September 2005, 20:05

Its a toy and I'm a BIG kid

Put the 2 together and I've got to have one because everyone else has one

Hmmm... Had a yearning for one for a long time, just never in the right 'circles' of divers for CCR diving, then I met Beanie and Co and realised that if I was going to go down that route, I couldn't be in better hands

Also, my father, who was my dive buddy, left me an inheritence when he died , and it just seemed an appropriate way to remember him

decoweenie · 9th September 2005, 20:08

Quote: (Originally Posted by Beanie)

why do I need to justify it?

That's absolutely true!

I am SO lucky that my wife actually supports the idea of me playing around with dive gears and Rebreather's in my dive room at times. Kind off like having a de-stressing center in the house. Fudging around with new configurations/etc relaxes me when I am stressed or having to think about something important. So I don't bother anyone and happy when I am done "playing".

Plus the diving keeps me out of trouble and steering clear of any (addited) REAL EXPENSIVE mid-life crisis...

And the greatest thing is I have so many friends from all over the world as a result of it. Many of them I have never even met in person, but we have communicated for years on different projects and know more about each other than friends I have where I live.

**UWSojourner** · 9th September 2005, 20:12

The Rebreather has to be about the cheapest mid-life crisis I can think of.

Rebreather - $
Psychotherapy - $$$$
Convertible - $$$$$$$$
Affair+divorce attorney+relocation expenses - $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Sounds like a deal to me

.

decoweenie · 9th September 2005, 20:20

Quote: (Originally Posted by UWSojourner)

The Rebreather has to be about the cheapest mid-life crisis I can think of.

Good point, I have addited my post...

9th September 2005, 16:12	#11 (permalink)
Mdemon SiegeEngine II Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Home Build Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: SWUK Posts: 1,931	I think the diving, on mix, works out cheaper per dive. And with my last set of OC fills costing £51, that's around 55 OC mix dives. However, I dive mix all the time, not just the deep ones. So, that increases the benefit. If you are (ex-?)DIR OC then things look even easier to justify as I believe they dive mix for everything deeper than 35m(?). One guy said it cost him £35 for a fill. So, if you do 100 dives per year at >35m and you're DIR then that's £3500. More than 100 dives, or looking at Yr 2, then it's cheaper... But, then again, it's about 10 times what I spent on my last car! Priorities and all that... __________________ www.southwestmafia.com "small minds talk about people, Average Minds Talk About Events, GREAT MINDS TALK ABOUT IDEAS!" The WRONG Attitude will get you killed. "Once the agenda-monkeys and perfect-worlders have moved on, perhaps we can do some diving?"
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9th September 2005, 16:49	#12 (permalink)
Mark Chase I go down for ages Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 2,692	Quote: (Originally Posted by Philippe GERIN) I hear you Stuart, I ran a few simulations on excel spreadsheet: my conclusion? There is only 1 scenario in which you can justify a breather by the cost alone. This is if you are heavily (meaning at least 4 times a week) engaged in high tech diving on mix and if you need 3 sets of doubles + 4 stages+ regs... and if you choose the Kiss as a breather. If the delta in $ is higher, then safety (mainly deco) is the next reason, still if you are into tech diving. If not, well, you said it: we like technology and/or technique & we can afford it ! Best Philippe God knows where you got your fugues from. Try these: Drive from my house to Tonbridge wells to drop off tanks Drive Home Drive back to pick up tanks Drive home Total 140 miles at 25mpg that’s 5 1/2 gallons of petrol so about £25 Twin 15s of 16/50 Trimix £85.00p Single 10 ltr of 32/30 £20.00 Single 10 of 80% £18.00 Total gas bill for a 60 -70m dive: 148.00p Using the same calks the gas bill for a 50 -60m dive on twin 12s and two 7s something like 19/35 is about £110.00 A CCR dive will cost me about 80bar of 16/50 out of a 3ltr tank and about 100 bar of 02 Plus a fill of lime. So roughly £8.00 for the lime £5.00 for the Gas So a CCR 70m dive cost me £14.00 in materials I have a 300 bar 12 which I get filled and whip from so I get about 12 fills before I drop to below 120 bar and need to get it toped up. I get 2 dives out of a 3ltr of 02 but I whip top it from a J. So I need one trip to the gas man every 12 dives so 25 / 12 = 2 roughly So add £2 for travelling and another £0.50p for batteries per dive and allow 1.50 for replacement cells based on 100 dives per year and a new set of cells every year Total cost of a CCR dive: £16.50 By my estimation that a saving of £93.50 on a shallow mix dive and £131.50 on a deep one. Even on a generous average of £100 per dive I only need 50 60+m dives to pay back the 5000.00 for the unit. I just had a quick look at my log book. I have done 19 mix dives this year and I am all my dives for the rest of the year will be mix so I reckon Ill get to 25+ mix dives this year. The poor showing is mainly because I had to wait for my Mod 3 cert. Last year I managed 32mix dives. So in two years I would pay for the unit and the training. After that I will be saving £2000+ per year. On top of this they are talking about a 100% increase in the cost of helium OH and if you want to talk about maintenance costs of running a CCR??? How much do you this little lot cost to keep in test. ATB Mark Chase __________________ Is it supposed to make that noise ? I took my unit to the dive shop and demanded they bolt on every thing that would fit. Join my elite diving teem and get a Tshirt "Doing It Chasey"Hammerhead Eccr Advanced Diving System
(Online)

9th September 2005, 17:15	#13 (permalink)
ROB DAVIE Administrator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: HOUSTON, REPUBLIC OF TEJAS Posts: 1,120	Jeez Mark, And I thought I had a stash of tins and gear taking up space in MY garage...!! __________________ [SIZE=2]"CC Rebreathers will become a viable part of tech diving [U]WHEN PIGS FLY[/U]!!"--GI3[/SIZE]
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9th September 2005, 17:42	#14 (permalink)
Mark Chase I go down for ages Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 2,692	Quote: (Originally Posted by ROB DAVIE) Jeez Mark, And I thought I had a stash of tins and gear taking up space in MY garage...!! Do you know what; After selling all but the 7s a single 12 and the 300 bar 12 I didnt cover the cost of the gas in the tanks __________________ Is it supposed to make that noise ? I took my unit to the dive shop and demanded they bolt on every thing that would fit. Join my elite diving teem and get a Tshirt "Doing It Chasey"Hammerhead Eccr Advanced Diving System
(Online)

9th September 2005, 19:36	#15 (permalink)
*caveseeker7* Who loves ya, baby Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Too far from Neverland Posts: 5,496	Mark makes a good argument for those doing mix dives, but when it comes right down to it, I think Phi hit the nail on the head and Beanie really gave all the answer anyone should need. William Randolph Hearst once said "Pleasure is worth what you can afford to pay for it." So he turned the camp site on a central California hill into an estate of 165 rooms and 127 acres of gardens, terraces, pools and walkways. It's all relative, compared to what my father spend(s) on racing, hunting or golf I could buy one of each breather out there and boat to get 'em to the dive sites. __________________ Cheers Stefan "Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.!"
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9th September 2005, 19:42	#16 (permalink)
Philippe GERIN ccr apprentice Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2005 Location: Strasbourg, France Posts: 634	Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase) God knows where you got your fugues from. Oh, Oh!... You're 2 to tell me my numbers are wrong. Hum.. That may be then! But wait, that means I could have justified to the wife to buy more stuff than just my Kiss? Bugger! I'll review my numbers then! Best Philippe
(Offline)

9th September 2005, 20:05	#17 (permalink)
*Louby Lou* XLVI WC! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Roman Corinium! Posts: 1,032	Its a toy and I'm a BIG kid Put the 2 together and I've got to have one because everyone else has one Hmmm... Had a yearning for one for a long time, just never in the right 'circles' of divers for CCR diving, then I met Beanie and Co and realised that if I was going to go down that route, I couldn't be in better hands Also, my father, who was my dive buddy, left me an inheritence when he died , and it just seemed an appropriate way to remember him __________________ Miss Lou x Use of Rebreather World is subject to the Rebreatherworld Terms and Conditions - Please read! Outlaw Divers - Sssh we're diving! You heff vays uff dealink vis zem, oh Miss Rebreather World Admin! - Rob Davie Feb 06
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9th September 2005, 20:08	#18 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,510	Quote: (Originally Posted by Beanie) why do I need to justify it? That's absolutely true! I am SO lucky that my wife actually supports the idea of me playing around with dive gears and Rebreather's in my dive room at times. Kind off like having a de-stressing center in the house. Fudging around with new configurations/etc relaxes me when I am stressed or having to think about something important. So I don't bother anyone and happy when I am done "playing". Plus the diving keeps me out of trouble and steering clear of any (addited) REAL EXPENSIVE mid-life crisis... And the greatest thing is I have so many friends from all over the world as a result of it. Many of them I have never even met in person, but we have communicated for years on different projects and know more about each other than friends I have where I live. __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
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9th September 2005, 20:12	#19 (permalink)
UWSojourner Pacific Northwest Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Portland Oregon Posts: 556	The Rebreather has to be about the cheapest mid-life crisis I can think of. Rebreather - $ Psychotherapy - $$$$ Convertible - $$$$$$$$ Affair+divorce attorney+relocation expenses - $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Sounds like a deal to me .
(Offline)

9th September 2005, 20:20	#20 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,510	Quote: (Originally Posted by UWSojourner) The Rebreather has to be about the cheapest mid-life crisis I can think of. Good point, I have addited my post... __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
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