Varying O2 FLOW?

Håkan K · 31st August 2005, 11:47

Hello all,

When I went diving with my Classic Kiss some days ago I noticed some odd things with the PO2 level. The thing I noticed was when deepest point of dive (approximately 35 m) I had to vent out some O2, but when shallow I had to add quite some O2, although at the moment on a resonable constant depth.

I have been diving my KISS #134 for a year now, around 60 dives and 40 hours. I think that I have had this kind of problem earlier, but haven't been all that deep with the unit yet.

Anyone having an idea of what the problem might be?
Lack of inexperience diving Rebreather?

Malfunctioning equipment (ie broken O-rings in the O2 add valve?
Other ideas?

Håkan

Simon A · 31st August 2005, 12:03

Hakan
Sounds like the cap that stops the reg depth compensating is leaking, try taking it off, cleaning it, lubricating the o-ring and re-assembling it.

HTH
Simon A

narked at 90 · 31st August 2005, 16:34

i agee with simon(dosent offen happen)

check you have no water incress in the the first stage and just to be shore change the o-ring or lube it
dive safe john routley

Håkan K · 17th October 2005, 13:10

A correct description should have been that the O2 flow had increased over time. I can not tell what it was when recieved from Jetsam, since I didn't measure it (and it worked quite well for me). On the later dives this year the O2 level kept on rising causing me to use quite some dilutent to keep the O2 level down as well as venting out quite some O2.

After trying things further, I together with some helping hands found out that it wasn't the plastic cap keeping it from beeing depthcompensated. But instead the O2 flow had increased beyond "normal" levels.

When measured the flowmeter showed approximately 1.8 litres/ minute. This is now adjusted down to 1,0 litres per minutes.

The problem was instead that the KISS valve was quite messed up with the o-rings mounted. Problem was solved by replaceing the o-rings and cleaning the parts, and then reassemblying it.
That means, please check your KISS valve once in a while or at least once in a year.

Barrie Law · 17th October 2005, 16:05

Hakan,
How are you keeping, good to see you made your way to Rebreather World site.

Cheers

DanDunfee · 18th October 2005, 22:58

Three axioms of mixed gas Rebreather diving are: 1) In RB diving, the risks, failure modes & effects, and consequences of a dosage subsystem failure are typically, substantially greater than with OC diving; 2) a dosage subsystem (first stage and / or dosage device) 'failure' can occur at ANY time, ie pre-dive, diving, or post-dive. and are typically more insidious and less easily detected than in OC rigs, and 3) death is permanent.

CCR Drivers, and especially MCCR ones should develop a disciplined procedure and schedule for 'testing', and 'checking' the flow rates of their units, where the mandatory schedule is much more frequent than the 'at least once per year' cited in a previous post.

Flow rates should be 'tested', with flow meters, 1) after each period of storage, 2) certainly weekly, and preferably daily, during periods of active diving, and 3) before each very deep or critical dive that may tax their 'bailout mix' duration.

MCCR Drivers should also define a 'quick check' procedure to verify approximate flow rates, certainly pre-dive on each diving day , and preferably before each dive. Each diver should define the procedure that is best suited to themselves and their equipment. One of the most common is to 'suck down' the breathing loop, close the DSV, and clock the time required for the controlled mass flow to refill the breathing loop up to 'full counterlungs'. This 'check time' should be compared with previous ones, where the flow rates have been verified with a flow meter. Some divers prefer to clock the time to 'cracking' (start of venting) of the OPV (altho when the OPV cracks is sometimes not so easy to detect). This procedure also serves to confirm that the OPV is not 'stuck'.

Good Safe Diving

Dan

Jamie B · 18th October 2005, 23:25

I find it quicker, and simpler to crank on the o2, then off, and note by how many bar the o2 gauge falls in a minute. I know what is normal, if its more or less than I expect, I know I have a problem.

Jamie

**rdriver** · 19th October 2005, 00:28

Haken,

I had the same thing happen on my classic last November but my flow rate went from .75 liters to over 3.0 liters a minute I new something was up we were diving shallow (20 ft) but it through my buoyancy way off... when we got back to the shop I checked with meter we found the excessive flow rate upon further investigation I found that the orings in the O2 injector were just shredded..... and the the unit was relatively new at that time with less than 3 hours on it.....
Rob

Håkan K · 21st October 2005, 09:17

Quote: (Originally Posted by Håkan K)

A correct description should have been that the O2 flow had increased over time. I can not tell what it was when recieved from Jetsam, since I didn't measure it (and it worked quite well for me). On the later dives this year the O2 level kept on rising causing me to use quite some dilutent to keep the O2 level down as well as venting out quite some O2.

After trying things further, I together with some helping hands found out that it wasn't the plastic cap keeping it from beeing depthcompensated. But instead the O2 flow had increased beyond "normal" levels.

When measured the flowmeter showed approximately 1.8 litres/ minute. This is now adjusted down to 1,0 litres per minutes.

The problem was instead that the KISS valve was quite messed up with the o-rings mounted. Problem was solved by replaceing the o-rings and cleaning the parts, and then reassemblying it.
That means, please check your KISS valve once in a while or at least once in a year.

Perhaps I should have written Please check your KISS valve at least once in a year with a O2 flow meter.

silentscuba · 22nd October 2005, 13:03

Quote: (Originally Posted by Jamie B)

I find it quicker, and simpler to crank on the o2, then off, and note by how many bar the o2 gauge falls in a minute. I know what is normal, if its more or less than I expect, I know I have a problem.

Jamie

Great idea. I have had some flow problems also and it was solved by replacing the o-rings. Your check is simple and can indicate a problem that should then be checked with the flow meter.

Curt

31st August 2005, 11:47	#1 (permalink)
Håkan K Beginning to learn Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2005 Location: Sweden Posts: 65	Varying O2 FLOW? Hello all, When I went diving with my Classic Kiss some days ago I noticed some odd things with the PO2 level. The thing I noticed was when deepest point of dive (approximately 35 m) I had to vent out some O2, but when shallow I had to add quite some O2, although at the moment on a resonable constant depth. I have been diving my KISS #134 for a year now, around 60 dives and 40 hours. I think that I have had this kind of problem earlier, but haven't been all that deep with the unit yet. Anyone having an idea of what the problem might be? Lack of inexperience diving Rebreather? Malfunctioning equipment (ie broken O-rings in the O2 add valve? Other ideas? Håkan
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31st August 2005, 12:03	#2 (permalink)
Simon A Escapee from DIY Rebreather's Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Reading, UK Posts: 282	Hakan Sounds like the cap that stops the reg depth compensating is leaking, try taking it off, cleaning it, lubricating the o-ring and re-assembling it. HTH Simon A
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31st August 2005, 16:34	#3 (permalink)
narked at 90 In my own little world Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Dolphin Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Classic Kiss Other CCR Dolphin Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: middlands uk Posts: 996	i agee with simon(dosent offen happen) check you have no water incress in the the first stage and just to be shore change the o-ring or lube it dive safe john routley __________________ CHECK OUT OUR INTERWEBS FOR CUSTOM REBREATHER UPGRADES *WWW.NARKEDAT90.CO.UK* *WWW.GRPSERVICES.COM*
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17th October 2005, 13:10	#4 (permalink)
Håkan K Beginning to learn Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2005 Location: Sweden Posts: 65	Varying O2 flow, should have been increasing O2 flow A correct description should have been that the O2 flow had increased over time. I can not tell what it was when recieved from Jetsam, since I didn't measure it (and it worked quite well for me). On the later dives this year the O2 level kept on rising causing me to use quite some dilutent to keep the O2 level down as well as venting out quite some O2. After trying things further, I together with some helping hands found out that it wasn't the plastic cap keeping it from beeing depthcompensated. But instead the O2 flow had increased beyond "normal" levels. When measured the flowmeter showed approximately 1.8 litres/ minute. This is now adjusted down to 1,0 litres per minutes. The problem was instead that the KISS valve was quite messed up with the o-rings mounted. Problem was solved by replaceing the o-rings and cleaning the parts, and then reassemblying it. That means, please check your KISS valve once in a while or at least once in a year.
(Offline)

17th October 2005, 16:05	#5 (permalink)
Barrie Law RebreatherWorld Sponsor Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Ireland Posts: 726	Varying O2 Flow? Hakan, How are you keeping, good to see you made your way to Rebreather World site. Cheers __________________ Barrie Law Rebreather World Store Supplying the Rebreather World Tel:US +19548403892 Fax:US+19543333792 Tel:EU+442071930496 Fax:EU+442077606344 Mobile+353876880628 Skype:barrielaw Email: barrie@rebreatherworldstore.com
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18th October 2005, 22:58	#6 (permalink)
DanDunfee Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other SCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other CCR Other SCR Home Build Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Virginia, USA Posts: 204	Varying O2 Flow Three axioms of mixed gas Rebreather diving are: 1) In RB diving, the risks, failure modes & effects, and consequences of a dosage subsystem failure are typically, substantially greater than with OC diving; 2) a dosage subsystem (first stage and / or dosage device) 'failure' can occur at ANY time, ie pre-dive, diving, or post-dive. and are typically more insidious and less easily detected than in OC rigs, and 3) death is permanent. CCR Drivers, and especially MCCR ones should develop a disciplined procedure and schedule for 'testing', and 'checking' the flow rates of their units, where the mandatory schedule is much more frequent than the 'at least once per year' cited in a previous post. Flow rates should be 'tested', with flow meters, 1) after each period of storage, 2) certainly weekly, and preferably daily, during periods of active diving, and 3) before each very deep or critical dive that may tax their 'bailout mix' duration. MCCR Drivers should also define a 'quick check' procedure to verify approximate flow rates, certainly pre-dive on each diving day , and preferably before each dive. Each diver should define the procedure that is best suited to themselves and their equipment. One of the most common is to 'suck down' the breathing loop, close the DSV, and clock the time required for the controlled mass flow to refill the breathing loop up to 'full counterlungs'. This 'check time' should be compared with previous ones, where the flow rates have been verified with a flow meter. Some divers prefer to clock the time to 'cracking' (start of venting) of the OPV (altho when the OPV cracks is sometimes not so easy to detect). This procedure also serves to confirm that the OPV is not 'stuck'. Good Safe Diving Dan
(Offline)

18th October 2005, 23:25	#7 (permalink)
Jamie B Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Join Date: May 2005 Location: UK Posts: 172	I find it quicker, and simpler to crank on the o2, then off, and note by how many bar the o2 gauge falls in a minute. I know what is normal, if its more or less than I expect, I know I have a problem. Jamie
(Offline)

19th October 2005, 00:28	#8 (permalink)
rdriver Supporting Member Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Join Date: May 2005 Location: Monroe, WI 53566 U.S. Posts: 148	Haken, I had the same thing happen on my classic last November but my flow rate went from .75 liters to over 3.0 liters a minute I new something was up we were diving shallow (20 ft) but it through my buoyancy way off... when we got back to the shop I checked with meter we found the excessive flow rate upon further investigation I found that the orings in the O2 injector were just shredded..... and the the unit was relatively new at that time with less than 3 hours on it..... Rob
(Offline)

21st October 2005, 09:17	#9 (permalink)
Håkan K Beginning to learn Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2005 Location: Sweden Posts: 65	Quote: (Originally Posted by Håkan K) A correct description should have been that the O2 flow had increased over time. I can not tell what it was when recieved from Jetsam, since I didn't measure it (and it worked quite well for me). On the later dives this year the O2 level kept on rising causing me to use quite some dilutent to keep the O2 level down as well as venting out quite some O2. After trying things further, I together with some helping hands found out that it wasn't the plastic cap keeping it from beeing depthcompensated. But instead the O2 flow had increased beyond "normal" levels. When measured the flowmeter showed approximately 1.8 litres/ minute. This is now adjusted down to 1,0 litres per minutes. The problem was instead that the KISS valve was quite messed up with the o-rings mounted. Problem was solved by replaceing the o-rings and cleaning the parts, and then reassemblying it. That means, please check your KISS valve once in a while or at least once in a year. Perhaps I should have written Please check your KISS valve at least once in a year with a O2 flow meter.
(Offline)

22nd October 2005, 13:03	#10 (permalink)
silentscuba rEvo CCR Driver Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss rEvo Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic rEvo Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Mill Creek, WA USA Posts: 568	Re: Varying O2 FLOW? Quote: (Originally Posted by Jamie B) I find it quicker, and simpler to crank on the o2, then off, and note by how many bar the o2 gauge falls in a minute. I know what is normal, if its more or less than I expect, I know I have a problem. Jamie Great idea. I have had some flow problems also and it was solved by replacing the o-rings. Your check is simple and can indicate a problem that should then be checked with the flow meter. Curt __________________ Curt McNamee rEvo CCR Diver KISS CCR Diver www.silentscuba.com
(Online)

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