Another where do I start post....

***schford*** · 1st September 2005, 23:19

that Sport Kiss is sure one sweeeeet unit too!

MikeH · 2nd September 2005, 02:50

Quote: (Originally Posted by schford)

that Sport Kiss is sure one sweeeeet unit too!

The one I dove had 2 "medium"(4L, I believe) counterlungs in it.....and I could not breathe in deeply without the ADV kicking in, and when I got a full breath, I could not exhale fully before I met a lot of resistance. Am I one of the few, as Kim suggested.....or is it somewhat common?

On OC, my SAC rate is less than .6CFM during the working portion of the dive, .4CFM during deco or little exertion...and the issue occurred while I had extremely little exertion. My breaths are generally long and slow...but I couldn't do that on the SK.

Mike

decoweenie · 2nd September 2005, 07:31

Quote: (Originally Posted by MikeH)

The one I dove had 2 "medium"(4L, I believe) counterlungs in it.....and I could not breathe in deeply without the ADV kicking in, and when I got a full breath, I could not exhale fully before I met a lot of resistance. Am I one of the few, as Kim suggested.....or is it somewhat common?

How was the CL baffle set ?

On the SK, there is an adjustable CL baffle to restrict the full inflation size of the CL (if needed) so the diver could match the CL volume to his own lungs -- ala MLV.

It might be possible that the baffle was set too small for you.

If it was fully open, then perhaps you should consider taking up cycling as Lance Armstrong is retired and we need another American to kick ass in Tour de France for the next few years...

Ben Field · 2nd September 2005, 09:03

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

It might be possible that the baffle was set too small for you.

I discovered that if you are a wally (I was) and don't check the lungs been pulled right down and the little "cord" that holds the baffle in place is snagged up then you only get half as much volume even when the baffle is right back, was SOOOO much better when its been put together properly!

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

If it was fully open, then perhaps you should consider taking up cycling as Lance Armstrong is retired and we need another American to kick ass in Tour de France for the next few years...

That man is a machine!

I know joking about cancer is bad but it does make you wonder if all that chemo hasn't eaten all his nerves, he doesn't seem to feel pain like normal/non-super hero people!

Still, best leave it a year or two, give someone else a chance for a change...

decoweenie · 2nd September 2005, 09:23

Quote: (Originally Posted by Ben Field)

I discovered that if you are a wally (I was) and don't check the lungs been pulled right down and the little "cord" that holds the baffle in place is snagged up then you only get half as much volume even when the baffle is right back, was SOOOO much better when its been put together properly!

Dave will show you in your course, but I show the students to run their fingers along the edges of each CL to make sure they were installed properly and not folded inside the housing. Otherwise, as you said, the CL will not able to fully inflated.

Quote:

Still, best leave it a year or two, give someone else a chance for a change...

Yeh, it is getting boring as well kicking ass for the last 7 years...

tomhanaway · 2nd September 2005, 09:55

Glad to hear about the CL cures that will be covered in class. I was having the same difficulty during my pool tryouts. Too many people waiting to try it out to explore the situation further at that time. Felt like I could only do unnaturally shallow breaths and that if I had to do any exertion, I'd overbreath the unit and activate the ADV.
Likes the unit well enough to order the sk's anyway.
Another nice thing is that Kim Smith always seems to be available by phone if I've got questions.

decoweenie · 2nd September 2005, 10:59

Quote: (Originally Posted by tomhanaway)

I was having the same difficulty during my pool tryouts. Too many people waiting to try it out to explore the situation further at that time.

Exactly the reason I keep refusing to hold pool trial.

If someone never dive a CCR before and the unit isn't set-up perfectly, plus if the diver isn't explained very well what to expect as far as the breathing style changes before the trial (i.e. gas is forced on OC and drawn on CC), it is very likely that the wrong opinion will be formed.

On one of the KISS courses, I had someone took a while (~30 mins) to get used to the breathing characteristics of the CCR unit before he is comfortable. On other courses, people jumped in and be perfectly happy on the first breath.

So I make sure that the diver knows EXACTLY what to expect from the first breath. And the unit is set-up to match his/her lung volume as close as possible.

On the SK, since there is almost no flow restriction on the loop, it is easy to start the breathing sequence wrong and "hate the WOB" if you don't know why you can't breath out fully yet activate the ADV on an in-breath and the baffle was set to match your lung perfectly beforehand as well. That's why you need to dive the unit you will be teaching to recognize this little problem...

MikeH · 2nd September 2005, 18:46

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

How was the CL baffle set ?

On the SK, there is an adjustable CL baffle to restrict the full inflation size of the CL (if needed) so the diver could match the CL volume to his own lungs -- ala MLV.

It might be possible that the baffle was set too small for you.

I did check that after surfacing...it was fully open.

Quote:

If it was fully open, then perhaps you should consider taking up cycling as Lance Armstrong is retired and we need another American to kick ass in Tour de France for the next few years...

Me, in those funny looking little spandex shorts?!

Too much

for me to pull that off..

Mike

***schford*** · 2nd September 2005, 18:49

Sounds like you need at least one of the large counter lungs in there and maybe 2!

Stuart

1st September 2005, 23:19	#21 (permalink)
*schford* Despotic Overlord Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 3,671	that Sport Kiss is sure one sweeeeet unit too!
(Offline)

2nd September 2005, 02:50	#22 (permalink)
MikeH Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Orlando, FL USA Posts: 178	Quote: (Originally Posted by schford) that Sport Kiss is sure one sweeeeet unit too! The one I dove had 2 "medium"(4L, I believe) counterlungs in it.....and I could not breathe in deeply without the ADV kicking in, and when I got a full breath, I could not exhale fully before I met a lot of resistance. Am I one of the few, as Kim suggested.....or is it somewhat common? On OC, my SAC rate is less than .6CFM during the working portion of the dive, .4CFM during deco or little exertion...and the issue occurred while I had extremely little exertion. My breaths are generally long and slow...but I couldn't do that on the SK. Mike
(Offline)

2nd September 2005, 07:31	#23 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,510	Quote: (Originally Posted by MikeH) The one I dove had 2 "medium"(4L, I believe) counterlungs in it.....and I could not breathe in deeply without the ADV kicking in, and when I got a full breath, I could not exhale fully before I met a lot of resistance. Am I one of the few, as Kim suggested.....or is it somewhat common? How was the CL baffle set ? On the SK, there is an adjustable CL baffle to restrict the full inflation size of the CL (if needed) so the diver could match the CL volume to his own lungs -- ala MLV. It might be possible that the baffle was set too small for you. If it was fully open, then perhaps you should consider taking up cycling as Lance Armstrong is retired and we need another American to kick ass in Tour de France for the next few years... __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
(Offline)

2nd September 2005, 09:03	#24 (permalink)
Ben Field CK+Shearwater Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: London, England Posts: 1,559	Another where do I start post.... Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) It might be possible that the baffle was set too small for you. I discovered that if you are a wally (I was) and don't check the lungs been pulled right down and the little "cord" that holds the baffle in place is snagged up then you only get half as much volume even when the baffle is right back, was SOOOO much better when its been put together properly! Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) If it was fully open, then perhaps you should consider taking up cycling as Lance Armstrong is retired and we need another American to kick ass in Tour de France for the next few years... That man is a machine! I know joking about cancer is bad but it does make you wonder if all that chemo hasn't eaten all his nerves, he doesn't seem to feel pain like normal/non-super hero people! Still, best leave it a year or two, give someone else a chance for a change... __________________ www.hugsac.org.uk Beware Fridge Suck
(Online)

2nd September 2005, 09:23	#25 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,510	Quote: (Originally Posted by Ben Field) I discovered that if you are a wally (I was) and don't check the lungs been pulled right down and the little "cord" that holds the baffle in place is snagged up then you only get half as much volume even when the baffle is right back, was SOOOO much better when its been put together properly! Dave will show you in your course, but I show the students to run their fingers along the edges of each CL to make sure they were installed properly and not folded inside the housing. Otherwise, as you said, the CL will not able to fully inflated. Quote: Still, best leave it a year or two, give someone else a chance for a change... Yeh, it is getting boring as well kicking ass for the last 7 years... __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
(Offline)

2nd September 2005, 09:55	#26 (permalink)
tomhanaway New Member Current Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Join Date: May 2005 Location: Boynton Beach, FL Posts: 52	Glad to hear about the CL cures that will be covered in class. I was having the same difficulty during my pool tryouts. Too many people waiting to try it out to explore the situation further at that time. Felt like I could only do unnaturally shallow breaths and that if I had to do any exertion, I'd overbreath the unit and activate the ADV. Likes the unit well enough to order the sk's anyway. Another nice thing is that Kim Smith always seems to be available by phone if I've got questions.
(Offline)

2nd September 2005, 10:59	#27 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,510	Quote: (Originally Posted by tomhanaway) I was having the same difficulty during my pool tryouts. Too many people waiting to try it out to explore the situation further at that time. Exactly the reason I keep refusing to hold pool trial. If someone never dive a CCR before and the unit isn't set-up perfectly, plus if the diver isn't explained very well what to expect as far as the breathing style changes before the trial (i.e. gas is forced on OC and drawn on CC), it is very likely that the wrong opinion will be formed. On one of the KISS courses, I had someone took a while (~30 mins) to get used to the breathing characteristics of the CCR unit before he is comfortable. On other courses, people jumped in and be perfectly happy on the first breath. So I make sure that the diver knows EXACTLY what to expect from the first breath. And the unit is set-up to match his/her lung volume as close as possible. On the SK, since there is almost no flow restriction on the loop, it is easy to start the breathing sequence wrong and "hate the WOB" if you don't know why you can't breath out fully yet activate the ADV on an in-breath and the baffle was set to match your lung perfectly beforehand as well. That's why you need to dive the unit you will be teaching to recognize this little problem... __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
(Offline)

2nd September 2005, 18:46	#28 (permalink)
MikeH Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Orlando, FL USA Posts: 178	Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) How was the CL baffle set ? On the SK, there is an adjustable CL baffle to restrict the full inflation size of the CL (if needed) so the diver could match the CL volume to his own lungs -- ala MLV. It might be possible that the baffle was set too small for you. I did check that after surfacing...it was fully open. Quote: If it was fully open, then perhaps you should consider taking up cycling as Lance Armstrong is retired and we need another American to kick ass in Tour de France for the next few years... Me, in those funny looking little spandex shorts?! Too much for me to pull that off.. Mike
(Offline)

2nd September 2005, 18:49	#29 (permalink)
*schford* Despotic Overlord Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 3,671	Sounds like you need at least one of the large counter lungs in there and maybe 2! Stuart
(Offline)

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