frog Rebreather?

babar · 18th July 2005, 15:11

Anyone own one? Or have dived one? Any comments on it?

Babar

***caveseeker7*** · 18th July 2005, 18:29

Babar, I neither own nor dive a Frog, but I had a chance to get a close look at the unit during the last DEMA show. Janwillem posted several of my pictures as well as a brief report.

The Frog looks pretty well made, and I like some of the detail solutions:
- the basic layout with twin tanks on the side and a cylinder shaped Rebreather body
- latches to attach head
- the base that raises the unit to acomfortable height
- needle valve rather than fixed orifice
- standard ADV
- clean hose routing
- scrubber cannister insulated in CL
- small footprint due to single CL design
- two O2 cell connectors standard

Dislikes:
- pre-packed single use scrubber cartridges (expensive and very wasteful)
- breathing hoses just bolted on, no QC.
- training only through MDEA (?) rather than known (and internationally accepted) agency
(nothing more worrysome than even IANTD not picking up a unit that's been 'in production' for years ... in the US, too)

Unknowns are:
- scrubber in general
- how well the swiveling connectors hold up to the rigors of use

Worrysome:
- encouraging the use of the Frog as a manually controlled CCR:

-- close OPV all the way down
-- plug diluent into ADV
-- plug O2 into needle valve, set to highest needed O2 flow and manually add by opening/closing O2 tank valve

When I visited the booth, the use as a nitrox driven SCR was only mentioned after I repreatedly asked about it. The unit was praised as a manually controlled CCR. Personally I don't quite see it ...
- only single gas addition points (all eCCRs I can think of have, or are available with, ADV and manual add valve, the KISSes allow diluent to be added through the OC/DSV in an emergency)
- inconvinient and not particular precise O2 addition, used on other rigs when primary (metered flow or solenoid) and secondary (manual addition) fail
- I still believe that two O2 cells in a CCR are one short of enough ...

Without any user/owner feedback or own experience it's kinda hard to say, but the Frog could be a viable alternative to Dräger and OMG SCRs.
As a CCR it would need a bit of work and some Jetsam parts, I would just buy all the parts from Jetsam.
In form of a Sport Kiss.

***jradomski*** · 18th July 2005, 19:12

Quote: (Originally Posted by caveseeker7)

Worrysome:

-- close OPV all the way down

TheOPV is on the DSV and it works quirewell in the fully closed position (I have used their DSV)

Also the KISS is recommended to dive with the OPV fully closed as well.. (more important on the KISS due to its location)

***caveseeker7*** · 18th July 2005, 19:31

The worrysome referred to the practice of using the Frog as a mCCR.
I mentioned closing the OPV as part of the description how to do that.
The unit I photographed, by the way, had the OPV on the head
(visible between/behind the hose connectors)
The DSV on the Frog was a normal one.

The one fitted to the
Tiger CCR prototype did multiple duty as OC-integrated DSV, OPV and ADV.

ROB DAVIE · 18th July 2005, 23:24

(nothing more worrysome than even IANTD not picking up a unit that's been 'in production' for years ... in the US, too)
[/quote]

???????????????????????????????????????

***caveseeker7*** · 19th July 2005, 00:01

IANTD ran ads for a while that they were offering training on all rebreathers.
Obviously that must be taken with a grain of salt, but nevertheless the Frog
has been build for quite a while yet the rebreather agency doesn't
offer training for it ... instead some largely unknown outfit in Florida does.

ROB DAVIE · 19th July 2005, 00:18

Oui, je comprend pas ici, Monsieur Chef, merci!!!

***caveseeker7*** · 19th July 2005, 00:33

Je ne parlé pas français ... je me ne souviens pas.

***jradomski*** · 19th July 2005, 00:37

Quote: (Originally Posted by caveseeker7)

The worrysome referred to the practice of using the Frog as a mCCR.
I mentioned closing the OPV as part of the description how to do that.
The unit I photographed, by the way, had the OPV on the head
(visible between/behind the hose connectors)
The DSV on the Frog was a normal one.

The one fitted to the
Tiger CCR prototype did multiple duty as OC-integrated DSV, OPV and ADV.

Thats surprising since they really push the benefits of the dsv and I beleieve they even filed a patent for it..

***caveseeker7*** · 19th July 2005, 01:03

I didn't realize they were pushing anything ... never saw anyone diving a Frog, never met anyone who dives one, never saw one outside the DEMA show floor.

18th July 2005, 15:11	#1 (permalink)
babar Curmudgeon Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Sport Kiss Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Other CCR Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Southern California Posts: 416	frog Rebreather? Anyone own one? Or have dived one? Any comments on it? Babar __________________ Babar Evolution Plus Sport kiss
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18th July 2005, 18:29	#2 (permalink)
*caveseeker7* Who loves ya, baby Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Too far from Neverland Posts: 5,325	Lambert's Frog Babar, I neither own nor dive a Frog, but I had a chance to get a close look at the unit during the last DEMA show. Janwillem posted several of my pictures as well as a brief report. The Frog looks pretty well made, and I like some of the detail solutions: - the basic layout with twin tanks on the side and a cylinder shaped Rebreather body - latches to attach head - the base that raises the unit to acomfortable height - needle valve rather than fixed orifice - standard ADV - clean hose routing - scrubber cannister insulated in CL - small footprint due to single CL design - two O2 cell connectors standard Dislikes: - pre-packed single use scrubber cartridges (expensive and very wasteful) - breathing hoses just bolted on, no QC. - training only through MDEA (?) rather than known (and internationally accepted) agency (nothing more worrysome than even IANTD not picking up a unit that's been 'in production' for years ... in the US, too) Unknowns are: - scrubber in general - how well the swiveling connectors hold up to the rigors of use Worrysome: - encouraging the use of the Frog as a manually controlled CCR: -- close OPV all the way down -- plug diluent into ADV -- plug O2 into needle valve, set to highest needed O2 flow and manually add by opening/closing O2 tank valve When I visited the booth, the use as a nitrox driven SCR was only mentioned after I repreatedly asked about it. The unit was praised as a manually controlled CCR. Personally I don't quite see it ... - only single gas addition points (all eCCRs I can think of have, or are available with, ADV and manual add valve, the KISSes allow diluent to be added through the OC/DSV in an emergency) - inconvinient and not particular precise O2 addition, used on other rigs when primary (metered flow or solenoid) and secondary (manual addition) fail - I still believe that two O2 cells in a CCR are one short of enough ... Without any user/owner feedback or own experience it's kinda hard to say, but the Frog could be a viable alternative to Dräger and OMG SCRs. As a CCR it would need a bit of work and some Jetsam parts, I would just buy all the parts from Jetsam. In form of a Sport Kiss. __________________ Cheers Stefan "It is still a good day if you are on the green side of the grass! Su amigo Roberto!" Sponsor Lou in Race For Life!
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18th July 2005, 19:12	#3 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 2,817	Quote: (Originally Posted by caveseeker7) Worrysome: -- close OPV all the way down TheOPV is on the DSV and it works quirewell in the fully closed position (I have used their DSV) Also the KISS is recommended to dive with the OPV fully closed as well.. (more important on the KISS due to its location) __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.
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18th July 2005, 23:24	#5 (permalink)
ROB DAVIE Administrator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: HOUSTON, REPUBLIC OF TEJAS Posts: 1,120	(nothing more worrysome than even IANTD not picking up a unit that's been 'in production' for years ... in the US, too) [/quote] ???????????????????????????????????????
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19th July 2005, 00:18	#7 (permalink)
ROB DAVIE Administrator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: HOUSTON, REPUBLIC OF TEJAS Posts: 1,120	Oui, je comprend pas ici, Monsieur Chef, merci!!! __________________ [SIZE=2]"CC Rebreathers will become a viable part of tech diving [U]WHEN PIGS FLY[/U]!!"--GI3[/SIZE]
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19th July 2005, 00:33	#8 (permalink)
*caveseeker7* Who loves ya, baby Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Too far from Neverland Posts: 5,325	Je ne parlé pas français ... je me ne souviens pas. __________________ Cheers Stefan "It is still a good day if you are on the green side of the grass! Su amigo Roberto!" Sponsor Lou in Race For Life!
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19th July 2005, 00:37	#9 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 2,817	Quote: (Originally Posted by caveseeker7) The worrysome referred to the practice of using the Frog as a mCCR. I mentioned closing the OPV as part of the description how to do that. The unit I photographed, by the way, had the OPV on the head (visible between/behind the hose connectors) The DSV on the Frog was a normal one. The one fitted to the Tiger CCR prototype did multiple duty as OC-integrated DSV, OPV and ADV. Thats surprising since they really push the benefits of the dsv and I beleieve they even filed a patent for it.. __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.
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