Moving from O/C to Rebreather? What now?

trimix

It's just a matter of time now. I've been diving technical O/C enough that I'm comfortable and competent. The cost of trimix fills could easily be converted to Rebreather payments, so $$ are not really the issue.
But I'm stuck. I know the differences between SCR and CCR, how they work, etc etc etc. But how do I choose a unit/system that will take me where I want to go and allow me to go further, without getting stupid and buying too much equipment for the diving I want to do?
I dive 2-3 times a week on air 140 fsw to 180 fsw, depending on time or my mood. Deco 1 or 2 slings as needed, of course. I try to get at least one trimix dive in a month, but fills are getting increasingly difficult to orchestrate or pay for.
But everyone I talk to has VERY good reasons for the sytem they choose to use, and I find myself swinging from working toward a KISS classic, to an Inspiration, and now today a friend made a convincing argument for SCR (!!)
Help!! How do I decide what unit REALLY is right for me? I'm ready and committed to buy, but not ready to invest in a mistake. I do that too often enough!

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BOOM!

ScubaDadMiami

See if you can go to a demo where they show, and you can test dive, from among your candidates. That (plus other things I discovered in my research) was what helped put me over the edge in making my decision to purchase a Dive Rite Optima.

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Howard Packer
IANTD CCR Instructor
Miami Beach, Florida
CCRDiveTraining.com

Rich Sawkins

Look at the type of diving you do and might want to do in the future. No good buying a Sport Kiss is you want to do 4 hour dives and/or go deeper than 50M - yes I know people do that and more but lets not forget the rated duration/depth of that scrubber please. It will stop you in some places/countries. A Classic KISS will take you to around 100M but do you want to go deeper, sell it or modify it. Then there's the lack of electronics, a big plus to some, others don't see it that way.

Look at the availabilty of spares and support where you are likely to be diving. If you aren't close to a CCR dive shop, can you get bits to you in a hurry when required ? The reality is things do break and usually at the most inconvenient times. Which parts can be readily substitued from normal OC gear, such as hoses etc. If the whole thing is made of customer parts there is often only one place to get them from.

What do your buddies dive ? A friend here in Sydney is selling his PRISM and one of the reasons due to the fact several of the people he dives have APValves gear. Well when there are four inspos on his boat and divers are going in pairs, two in the water, two in the boat there are always bits to borrow should the need arise. With one PRISM and three Inspos he has found himself out of luck in the past.

What training is available locally ? Will you have to fly around the world to get the initial and then further training. Costs soon mount up.

Do you want a mass produced unit from a 'big' company or are you happy with something that is effectively built in a garage. Does the big company provide the service or do you get a better response from the man in his shed.

If you can, try before you buy but I doubt you can find anywhere that will take you on much more than a 5-10 metre splash.

Look at the features YOU need from your unit. Another friend does lots of diving but most of it in 10-20M, he loves his Sport KISS. Its also great for travelling due to small size and lack of weight.

Some say the inspo is too heavy for travelling, but it doesn't seem to stop
the guys around here heading over to Asia all the time.

And be prepared for a torrent of this unit is better than that unit . Much like with cars, some buy what they can afford, others what they think is best. Some are happy with their classics which need constant love and care, others just want to prep and dive.

Personally, I like my PRISM, but I've never dived any other rebreather. I've dived with a few KISS and Inspo users and they all returned successfully.

You pays your money and the fun begins....

rogeringebo

Just want to say that was exelent advice.....well done...
Cheers Rodge

Ben Field

I'll second that! (Green blob on the way I feel)

To the original poster- What was the "good argument" for SCR... when I was looking into Rebreather I couldn't find a single good argument for SCR that either OC or CCR overrode (for me anyway)

Reasons themselves aside, if you are spending 70-90% the cost of a CCR (A cheap one admittedly) and getting only 30-50% of the benefits (if that) why not go the whole hog?

There is no perfect rebreather- just pick one thats suits you best and live with whatever niggle it has

BEN

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www.hugsac.org.uk

rogeringebo

I meant advice in general....I would never buy a SCR
I dive a CK and soon a Pelagian
Cheers Rodge

caveseeker7

Same here, well done, Rich.

In my opinion the case can be made quite easily for a well designed, passive addition SCR of high build quality like the RB80. Range capability matches or exceeds most CCRs, you trade the possible advantages of constant pO2 for an 'intuitive' mechanical unit. Price is about the same as for many CCRs.
As Rich said, you pays your money ...

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Cheers
Stefan



"Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority,
and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media,
which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.!"

trimix

Hey, thanks for the advice, guys.
FYI I've already paid a visit a while ago to Gordon Smith (Maker of KISS) because his shop is right here near Vancouver. He has quite a local following, and I see evidence of more and more of his units being used throughout Europe. What appeals to me with the KISS system is the availablility of common parts and thus the unit's repairability in dire need - go to the hardware store. Or drive to his shop, in my case. The unit looks crude, but it makes sense. Like some Rebreather users I shudder at the thought of relying entirely on electronic controls, and I prefer to be a diver that thinks and understands about what I'm doing - thanks to ANDI for the training.

But then, the Inspiration is a proven unit; it has a history, lots of units in circulation, and greater support throughout the world - I can go to Cozumel or the Great Lakes or Scapa Flow and probably find somebody that has Inspiration bits (even if I have to steal them )

There is no doubt that I will be diving the unit beyond 70-100m - I'm doing that already on O/C - and my dives very easily could go to 3 hours (wow!) if I can stand the cold. That would be a dream come true! So the travel 'Rebreather-lite' versions of CCRs won't do.
The SCR argument comes in when I consider the less extreme dives - what if I do a 1 hour dive at 120 fsw, like the O/C guys I'm diving with? Is all the prep time, materials and technology worth the expense of full CCR, and the risks associated? Can I get by with an SCR? Or will I just have the 'wantsies' again a year later for the CCR?
In short, CCR is - no question - the way to go for full-on tech exploration. But is it at all well rounded and cost effective for a shorter duration dive or (God forbid!) a recreational situation?
I suspect you guys have asked similar questions when you started out - what would you advise?

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BOOM!

Mike

Prep time on a CCR is not going to be any longer than a SCR, likely shorter.
On both, you need to calibrate O2 sensor(s) (You would use an O2 sensor on a SCR, wouldn't you ).
On both, you need to fill scrubber and do pos/neg pressure checks
On SCR you need to check flowrates.

Most people would argue that a SCR has all the inconvenience of a CCR, with none of the advantages.

Besides - you want a CCR for the trimix stuff, so what's the point of buying a SCR that you can't use for what you want to use it for??? If all you want to do is air dives to 40m, stick with a set of twins.

Living in the same city as Gordon, the Kiss would win from a support perspective, but is limited to ~100m. If you want to dive deeper than that, then pick one of the usual suspects - Inspo, Meg, Prism, MK series. Each of them has their proponents, but all are being regularly used to do the sort of dives you want to do. There isn't a wrong answer really... well, except that the Prism is best

Mike

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Mind ........ Loop

Rich Sawkins

Plug the dive through your favourite deco software for OC and CCR, check the difference in run time. Then add the advantage of warm moist air and you may end up agreeing with me, yes its worth it. Bring the OC boys with you, they can be your self propelled bailout

My average weekend dive is 20-30 mins at 48M. The hour runtime on CCR gives me 50% more bottom time compared to OC.


As for SCR, ask all the boys and girls on here. How many of them have an SCR and are staying with it rather then going CCR either by conversion or replacement.

I no longer dive OC unless I have to and have started selling of some of my gear. If the dive is less than 10M I use a 0.7 setpoint deeper than that 1.3. The PRISM with its low rate of o2 addition seems to cope reasonably well and from what I've seen the KISS units aren't too bad in the shallows either, but no ccr is going to be as easy as OC on a shallowish dive where you are up and down all the time.

I guess it all depends on how much gear you want to have sat around collecting dust and what you can afford. I'm talking the view that for once or twice a year if I have to dive OC I'll borrow/hire stuff. A friend has several CCRs and keeps a Draeger for doing shallow stuff.