COPIS Meg

kiam · 10th February 2007, 13:22

What's the known depth limit for the COPIS Meg?

teksimple · 10th February 2007, 17:29

The technical limit of any KISS-style rebreather is a function of the intermediate pressure at which the oxygen regulator is set, and the orifice size (fixed) of the KISS valve of the Meg. These in turn are dependent on your metabolic rate. See the COPIS Meg article by Ron here. The O2 regulator stops completely when the IP equals ambient. You would have to do the math depending on the IP setting. The smaller the orifice, the greater to which the IP pressure can be set to match the diver's metabolic rate, so deeper possible depth.

Removing this practical depth limit inherent in a KISS-style assembly is why a needle valve is used in the Pelagian CCR oxygen-add mechanism.

decoweenie · 10th February 2007, 17:55

You are explaing the principle of a KISS unit to someone who owns a SK...

kiam · 10th February 2007, 19:08

Quote: (Originally Posted by teksimple)

The technical limit of any KISS-style rebreather is a function of the intermediate pressure at which the oxygen regulator is set, and the orifice size (fixed) of the KISS valve of the Meg. These in turn are dependent on your metabolic rate. See the COPIS Meg article by Ron here. The O2 regulator stops completely when the IP equals ambient. You would have to do the math depending on the IP setting. The smaller the orifice, the greater to which the IP pressure can be set to match the diver's metabolic rate, so deeper possible depth.

Removing this practical depth limit inherent in a KISS-style assembly is why a needle valve is used in the Pelagian CCR oxygen-add mechanism.

OK, Having said all of that, the SK is rated to 165ft. Is there a limit like that that has been set for the COPIS?

kiam · 10th February 2007, 19:11

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

You are explaing the principle of a KISS unit to someone who owns a SK...

If I didn't know better Phi, I'd think there was a hint of sarcasm to your response.....I was once told, "If you can't say something nice......" but then if that was the case, you wouldn't post as much as you do.

teksimple · 10th February 2007, 19:29

Yeah, who was your instructor anyway, Kiam?

Really, though, 165 feet is somewhat arbritrary and probably has more to do with the SK scrubber design than the KISS valve as the CK and SK have the same valve. Theoretically, you could use a very small orifice and very high intermediate pressure (like 350 psi assuming your hoses can handle) and then the depth limit of the COPIS is greatly extended..at least as far as the oxygen add is concerned.

Its Saturday morning, the weather is frickin awesome for a dive on Kauai's South Shore, and here I am hanging out on RBW. My girlfriend won't let me borrow her Classic KISS, and the solenoid that was supposed to come in via Express Mail from Juergensen never arrived.

So "KISSing" my Mark 15.5 is my highest priority right now! The method I have spent over $600 on so far uses neither an uncompensated first stage like the KISS nor a needle valve like the Pelagian. I won't spill the beans until I prove that it works, but here is a hint: a true mechanical constant mass flow controller.

decoweenie · 11th February 2007, 05:37

Quote: (Originally Posted by kiam)

If I didn't know better Phi, I'd think there was a hint of sarcasm to your response.....I was once told, "If you can't say something nice......" but then if that was the case, you wouldn't post as much as you do.

Ooops, did I offend you ? Sorry, I didn't mean too...

What I meant was you didn't need to know the principle of the KISS unit, and was looking for specific info about the COPIS (i.e. orifice size, IP setting, etc). And the hint of sarcasm was meant for teksimple...

Anyway, please feel free to add me to your ignore list if you don't find my posts worthwhile...

decoweenie · 11th February 2007, 05:39

Quote: (Originally Posted by teksimple)

...but here is a hint: a true mechanical constant mass flow controller.

Is that the "Gorilla" device made in East Coast US ? Forgot the source...

SINUS · 11th February 2007, 06:03

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

Ooops, did I offend you ? Sorry, I didn't mean too...

Anyway, please feel free to add me to your ignore list if you don't find my posts worthwhile...

You should know better that Charles is a hypersensitive fella..

Have you not remembered he announced his departure from RBW for one reason or another..

cheers

Wei Lan

decoweenie · 11th February 2007, 06:57

Quote: (Originally Posted by SINUS)

You should know better that Charles is a hypersensitive fella..

Here is an idea...

How about we have a "sensitivity indicator" next to our Profile that could be reset daily when we log into RBW ?

That way if I feel a bit moody, I just raise the "DEFCON" level from "Bring it on, boys" to "Don't f*ck with me today"...

This is similar to the wife wearing the red-shirt when she doesn't want to be messed with...

Quote:

Have you not remembered he announced his departure from RBW for one reason or another..

Not really, sorry...

10th February 2007, 13:22	#1 (permalink)
kiam student diver Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 91	COPIS Meg What's the known depth limit for the COPIS Meg? Last edited by kiam : 10th February 2007 at 14:56.
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10th February 2007, 17:29	#2 (permalink)
teksimple RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Haifa Street, Baghdad Posts: 514	Re: COPIS Meg The technical limit of any KISS-style rebreather is a function of the intermediate pressure at which the oxygen regulator is set, and the orifice size (fixed) of the KISS valve of the Meg. These in turn are dependent on your metabolic rate. See the COPIS Meg article by Ron here. The O2 regulator stops completely when the IP equals ambient. You would have to do the math depending on the IP setting. The smaller the orifice, the greater to which the IP pressure can be set to match the diver's metabolic rate, so deeper possible depth. Removing this practical depth limit inherent in a KISS-style assembly is why a needle valve is used in the Pelagian CCR oxygen-add mechanism.
(Offline)

10th February 2007, 17:55	#3 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,487	Re: COPIS Meg You are explaing the principle of a KISS unit to someone who owns a SK... __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
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10th February 2007, 19:08	#4 (permalink)
kiam student diver Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 91	Re: COPIS Meg Quote: (Originally Posted by teksimple) The technical limit of any KISS-style rebreather is a function of the intermediate pressure at which the oxygen regulator is set, and the orifice size (fixed) of the KISS valve of the Meg. These in turn are dependent on your metabolic rate. See the COPIS Meg article by Ron here. The O2 regulator stops completely when the IP equals ambient. You would have to do the math depending on the IP setting. The smaller the orifice, the greater to which the IP pressure can be set to match the diver's metabolic rate, so deeper possible depth. Removing this practical depth limit inherent in a KISS-style assembly is why a needle valve is used in the Pelagian CCR oxygen-add mechanism. OK, Having said all of that, the SK is rated to 165ft. Is there a limit like that that has been set for the COPIS?
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10th February 2007, 19:11	#5 (permalink)
kiam student diver Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 91	Re: COPIS Meg Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) You are explaing the principle of a KISS unit to someone who owns a SK... If I didn't know better Phi, I'd think there was a hint of sarcasm to your response.....I was once told, "If you can't say something nice......" but then if that was the case, you wouldn't post as much as you do.
(Offline)

10th February 2007, 19:29	#6 (permalink)
teksimple RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Haifa Street, Baghdad Posts: 514	Re: COPIS Meg Yeah, who was your instructor anyway, Kiam? Really, though, 165 feet is somewhat arbritrary and probably has more to do with the SK scrubber design than the KISS valve as the CK and SK have the same valve. Theoretically, you could use a very small orifice and very high intermediate pressure (like 350 psi assuming your hoses can handle) and then the depth limit of the COPIS is greatly extended..at least as far as the oxygen add is concerned. Its Saturday morning, the weather is frickin awesome for a dive on Kauai's South Shore, and here I am hanging out on RBW. My girlfriend won't let me borrow her Classic KISS, and the solenoid that was supposed to come in via Express Mail from Juergensen never arrived. So "KISSing" my Mark 15.5 is my highest priority right now! The method I have spent over $600 on so far uses neither an uncompensated first stage like the KISS nor a needle valve like the Pelagian. I won't spill the beans until I prove that it works, but here is a hint: a true mechanical constant mass flow controller. Last edited by teksimple : 10th February 2007 at 19:33.
(Offline)

11th February 2007, 05:37	#7 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,487	Re: COPIS Meg Quote: (Originally Posted by kiam) If I didn't know better Phi, I'd think there was a hint of sarcasm to your response.....I was once told, "If you can't say something nice......" but then if that was the case, you wouldn't post as much as you do. Ooops, did I offend you ? Sorry, I didn't mean too... What I meant was you didn't need to know the principle of the KISS unit, and was looking for specific info about the COPIS (i.e. orifice size, IP setting, etc). And the hint of sarcasm was meant for teksimple... Anyway, please feel free to add me to your ignore list if you don't find my posts worthwhile... __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
(Offline)

11th February 2007, 05:39	#8 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,487	Re: COPIS Meg Quote: (Originally Posted by teksimple) ...but here is a hint: a true mechanical constant mass flow controller. Is that the "Gorilla" device made in East Coast US ? Forgot the source... __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
(Offline)

11th February 2007, 06:03	#9 (permalink)
SINUS Rebreather Aficionado Current Rebreather/s: Other SCR Other Rebreather/s: Other SCR Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: 137km from equator Posts: 196	Re: COPIS Meg Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) Ooops, did I offend you ? Sorry, I didn't mean too... Anyway, please feel free to add me to your ignore list if you don't find my posts worthwhile... You should know better that Charles is a hypersensitive fella.. Have you not remembered he announced his departure from RBW for one reason or another.. cheers Wei Lan __________________ "Silence Is Always Beautiful"
(Offline)

11th February 2007, 06:57	#10 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,487	Re: COPIS Meg Quote: (Originally Posted by SINUS) You should know better that Charles is a hypersensitive fella.. Here is an idea... How about we have a "sensitivity indicator" next to our Profile that could be reset daily when we log into RBW ? That way if I feel a bit moody, I just raise the "DEFCON" level from "Bring it on, boys" to "Don't fck with me today"... This is similar to the wife wearing the red-shirt when she doesn't want to be messed with... Quote:* Have you not remembered he announced his departure from RBW for one reason or another.. Not really, sorry... __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
(Offline)

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