Smithers(-Juergensen) electronics for Meg units

decoweenie · 17th January 2007, 05:47

To be honest, I was quite pleasantly surprised to hear from Steve Stolen that around 30-50 Smithers units were originally delivered. More than I had thought...

So I have some quick questions for those who use one:

Anyone managed to buy the trimix code from Will ?
Anyone managed to enable the trimix deco portion in one way or another ?
Anyone noticed any possible correlation when entering low fiO2/high fiN2 for trimix dives against real trimix computer ?

Also, if anyone is planning to trade theirs in for upgrade to APECS* version, please let me know as I might be interested in a back-up Smithers lid.

Also interested in any general comments/observations concerning the Smithers electronics from your experience...

webhead · 17th January 2007, 06:40

Can't answer any of Phi's questions but I'd also like to let everyone know that if they have a Smither's head for the Meg, I'd be interested in a purchase.

I wonder if there is any way to reverse engineer the head to find the trimix codes. If there is a way to pull the code from flash, maybe run it thru a debugger/disassembler.....

***jradomski*** · 17th January 2007, 07:16

Quote: (Originally Posted by webhead)

Can't answer any of Phi's questions but I'd also like to let everyone know that if they have a Smither's head for the Meg, I'd be interested in a purchase.

I wonder if there is any way to reverse engineer the head to find the trimix codes. If there is a way to pull the code from flash, maybe run it thru a debugger/disassembler.....

most older PIC processors are not that difficult to pop the security bits and read out the code.. The problem is that the process is destructive and takes multiple tries to get it done.. So with 1 processor the liklihood is low, but with 10 its very high...

decoweenie · 17th January 2007, 08:22

Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski)

The problem is that the process is destructive and takes multiple tries to get it done.. So with 1 processor the liklihood is low, but with 10 its very high...

I will try to translate that into English-for-normal-people...

Is it correct that 10 people will have to sacrifice their lids to get the code for the rest of the guys.

Assuming $1,500 value per lid, that's US$15,000 worth of investment.

And assuming 30 units left, that's only US$500 per head to get the trimix code.

So we need a show of hands for 10 who want to sell their lids for US$1,500. And 30 to invest US$500 for the trimix code...

***jradomski*** · 17th January 2007, 10:14

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

I will try to translate that into English-for-normal-people...

Is it correct that 10 people will have to sacrifice their lids to get the code for the rest of the guys.

Assuming $1,500 value per lid, that's US$15,000 worth of investment.

And assuming 30 units left, that's only US$500 per head to get the trimix code.

So we need a show of hands for 10 who want to sell their lids for US$1,500. And 30 to invest US$500 for the trimix code...

I love your analysis! that definately deserves some green! But 10 still doesnt guarantee success...

There are also places in China that specializing in doing this, they usually only need 2 or 3 pieces to guarantee successs (but usually get it on the first shot) but their sevices usually start at 10K and go up from there depending on the processor..

Then you have to consider the legal/moral implications, especially since half the "team" still exists..

webhead · 17th January 2007, 11:14

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

And assuming 30 units left, that's only US$500 per head to get the trimix code.

And what is the average price for adding trimix to dive computers these days?

If I had 2 of these electronics, I'd offer one up.

Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski)

There are also places in China that specializing in doing this...

Why doesn't this surprise me.

windymiller · 17th January 2007, 11:56

Why dont you speak to Bruce Partridge?

I just purchased a meg with the Smithers electronics and he has just upgraded it to the Shearwater GF meg head.

Nice job, just waiting to use it!

Skipbreather · 17th January 2007, 14:22

I’m not saying it cannot be done, but…..

There are a lot of exceptionally bright, intelligent folks in the world but very, very few TRUE geniuses. Will was one of that select group. Cracking a code he did not want cracked would definitely not be a “routine” operation. Should be factored into any effort.

Just my $0.02.

Ken

***jradomski*** · 17th January 2007, 14:32

Quote: (Originally Posted by Skipbreather)

I’m not saying it cannot be done, but…..

There are a lot of exceptionally bright, intelligent folks in the world but very, very few TRUE geniuses. Will was one of that select group. Cracking a code he did not want cracked would definitely not be a “routine” operation. Should be factored into any effort.

Just my $0.02.

Ken

Ken,

not to take anything from Wil, but secure systems are an artform/specialty.. Most supposedly secure systems are broken because they have been implemented by very intelligent people that don't spend their entire life doing secure systems and trying to find weeknesses.. There are but a few people world wide that can stake claim to truely implementing a secure system..

Also alot of times passcodes are implemented that are easy to remember (like a birthday, special occasion date,phone #, a favorite address from a movie, book or tv show ect( I have seen 221b many times (sherlock holme's address - 221b Baker st.) ..or those that are easy to enter (especially if they have to be done alot), like all 1s or all 0s or the famous 12345 from Spaceballs,

saving a few button presses on each device over a day can add up to considerable time...

decoweenie · 17th January 2007, 14:34

Quote: (Originally Posted by windymiller)

I just purchased a meg with the Smithers electronics and he has just upgraded it to the Shearwater GF meg head.

Yes, I will be getting one also when Bruce sorted out the lid with Leon. And I already have a Shearwater-YBOD unit.

Plus the Smithers lid is here, and *IF* we could get the code (pay/break) it could be used on my Mini-Meg can.

17th January 2007, 05:47	#1 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,510	Smithers(-Juergensen) electronics for Meg units To be honest, I was quite pleasantly surprised to hear from Steve Stolen that around 30-50 Smithers units were originally delivered. More than I had thought... So I have some quick questions for those who use one: Anyone managed to buy the trimix code from Will ? Anyone managed to enable the trimix deco portion in one way or another ? Anyone noticed any possible correlation when entering low fiO2/high fiN2 for trimix dives against real trimix computer ? Also, if anyone is planning to trade theirs in for upgrade to APECS* version, please let me know as I might be interested in a back-up Smithers lid. Also interested in any general comments/observations concerning the Smithers electronics from your experience... __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
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17th January 2007, 06:40	#2 (permalink)
webhead Earning the green stuff.. Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: East central Florida Posts: 283	Re: Smithers(-Juergensen) electronics for Meg units Can't answer any of Phi's questions but I'd also like to let everyone know that if they have a Smither's head for the Meg, I'd be interested in a purchase. I wonder if there is any way to reverse engineer the head to find the trimix codes. If there is a way to pull the code from flash, maybe run it thru a debugger/disassembler..... __________________ "These are not the droids you are looking for.... move along" - Obi-Wan Kenobi
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17th January 2007, 07:16	#3 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 2,900	Re: Smithers(-Juergensen) electronics for Meg units Quote: (Originally Posted by webhead) Can't answer any of Phi's questions but I'd also like to let everyone know that if they have a Smither's head for the Meg, I'd be interested in a purchase. I wonder if there is any way to reverse engineer the head to find the trimix codes. If there is a way to pull the code from flash, maybe run it thru a debugger/disassembler..... most older PIC processors are not that difficult to pop the security bits and read out the code.. The problem is that the process is destructive and takes multiple tries to get it done.. So with 1 processor the liklihood is low, but with 10 its very high... __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.
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17th January 2007, 08:22	#4 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,510	Re: Smithers(-Juergensen) electronics for Meg units Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski) The problem is that the process is destructive and takes multiple tries to get it done.. So with 1 processor the liklihood is low, but with 10 its very high... I will try to translate that into English-for-normal-people... Is it correct that 10 people will have to sacrifice their lids to get the code for the rest of the guys. Assuming $1,500 value per lid, that's US$15,000 worth of investment. And assuming 30 units left, that's only US$500 per head to get the trimix code. So we need a show of hands for 10 who want to sell their lids for US$1,500. And 30 to invest US$500 for the trimix code... __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
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17th January 2007, 10:14	#5 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 2,900	Re: Smithers(-Juergensen) electronics for Meg units Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) I will try to translate that into English-for-normal-people... Is it correct that 10 people will have to sacrifice their lids to get the code for the rest of the guys. Assuming $1,500 value per lid, that's US$15,000 worth of investment. And assuming 30 units left, that's only US$500 per head to get the trimix code. So we need a show of hands for 10 who want to sell their lids for US$1,500. And 30 to invest US$500 for the trimix code... I love your analysis! that definately deserves some green! But 10 still doesnt guarantee success... There are also places in China that specializing in doing this, they usually only need 2 or 3 pieces to guarantee successs (but usually get it on the first shot) but their sevices usually start at 10K and go up from there depending on the processor.. Then you have to consider the legal/moral implications, especially since half the "team" still exists.. __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated. Last edited by jradomski : 17th January 2007 at 14:23.
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17th January 2007, 11:14	#6 (permalink)
webhead Earning the green stuff.. Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: East central Florida Posts: 283	Re: Smithers(-Juergensen) electronics for Meg units Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) And assuming 30 units left, that's only US$500 per head to get the trimix code. And what is the average price for adding trimix to dive computers these days? If I had 2 of these electronics, I'd offer one up. Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski) There are also places in China that specializing in doing this... Why doesn't this surprise me. __________________ "These are not the droids you are looking for.... move along" - Obi-Wan Kenobi
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17th January 2007, 11:56	#7 (permalink)
windymiller All The Gear, No Idea Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Evolution Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: england Posts: 254	Re: Smithers(-Juergensen) electronics for Meg units Why dont you speak to Bruce Partridge? I just purchased a meg with the Smithers electronics and he has just upgraded it to the Shearwater GF meg head. Nice job, just waiting to use it!
(Online)

17th January 2007, 14:22	#8 (permalink)
Skipbreather Reads the fine print Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet MK 15.X Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Chicago, Illinois, USA Posts: 544	Re: Smithers(-Juergensen) electronics for Meg units I’m not saying it cannot be done, but….. There are a lot of exceptionally bright, intelligent folks in the world but very, very few TRUE geniuses. Will was one of that select group. Cracking a code he did not want cracked would definitely not be a “routine” operation. Should be factored into any effort. Just my $0.02. Ken __________________ "Entropy RULES! Enjoy the interim."
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17th January 2007, 14:32	#9 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 2,900	Re: Smithers(-Juergensen) electronics for Meg units Quote: (Originally Posted by Skipbreather) I’m not saying it cannot be done, but….. There are a lot of exceptionally bright, intelligent folks in the world but very, very few TRUE geniuses. Will was one of that select group. Cracking a code he did not want cracked would definitely not be a “routine” operation. Should be factored into any effort. Just my $0.02. Ken Ken, not to take anything from Wil, but secure systems are an artform/specialty.. Most supposedly secure systems are broken because they have been implemented by very intelligent people that don't spend their entire life doing secure systems and trying to find weeknesses.. There are but a few people world wide that can stake claim to truely implementing a secure system.. Also alot of times passcodes are implemented that are easy to remember (like a birthday, special occasion date,phone #, a favorite address from a movie, book or tv show ect( I have seen 221b many times (sherlock holme's address - 221b Baker st.) ..or those that are easy to enter (especially if they have to be done alot), like all 1s or all 0s or the famous 12345 from Spaceballs, saving a few button presses on each device over a day can add up to considerable time... __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated. Last edited by jradomski : 17th January 2007 at 14:37.
(Online)

17th January 2007, 14:34	#10 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,510	Re: Smithers(-Juergensen) electronics for Meg units Quote: (Originally Posted by windymiller) I just purchased a meg with the Smithers electronics and he has just upgraded it to the Shearwater GF meg head. Yes, I will be getting one also when Bruce sorted out the lid with Leon. And I already have a Shearwater-YBOD unit. Plus the Smithers lid is here, and IF we could get the code (pay/break) it could be used on my Mini-Meg can. __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
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