CE and ISC service

dodelineur · 11th November 2006, 09:19

Hello,

I have recently sold my inspo to buy a meg.
Could anyone tell me exactly what is the implication of diving a non CE CCR within europe? (I am not instructor, so no courses provided), specially for DAN insurance.

I was told by ISC that the apecs 2 will not have the CE certification, and will not be produced anymore when the apecs 3 will come for sale.
The entire head with handsets will be different from the actual one, and probably the price of the CCr too...

So on one side I have the CCR I want, but that CCR will be an out of production model in a few month (how to be sure that the only way to repair my apecs 2 in a couple of year will not be just buying an apecs 3 ???).
On the other side, there is the new vision, wich is CE, and I know the great service from APD for being an inspo diver for some years now...

So what are you thinking about that?

Does anyone in Europe have return the electronic to ISC, and how was the service porvided?

thanks

***EBT*** · 11th November 2006, 09:29

DAN dont care what you were diving at the time of an incident.

The only implications for CE are;

1. 'Working' whilst on the unit (ie teaching) is not possible.
2. Selling the unit is claimed to be an issue, but this isnt the case so far (for private 2nd hand sales)

paulraymaekers · 11th November 2006, 09:33

Quote: (Originally Posted by dodelineur)

Hello,

I have recently sold my inspo to buy a meg.
Could anyone now exactly what is the implication of diving a non CE CCR within europe? (I am not instructor, so no courses provided), specially for DAN insurance.

I can only comment the first question: as far as I know, any individual anywhere over the world is free to dive a unit CE or not. The individual can bye anywhere in the world a unit that is not CE, and use it in the CE-zone.
Dan does not specify that the unit you dive has to be CE, but that you must be properly trained and dive the unit within its limits and your training limits.

non-CE units may not be sold commercially IN the CE-zone, private sales can, but I'm not sure if it has implications for the seller if anything happens

training on a non-CE unit IN the CE-zone is not a problem: (but it is not clear if or not the instructor can use a non-CE unit during the training in the CE-zone) (can a MEG instructor use his MEG when training a student on a MEG inside the CE-zone??)

rEvo's are not sold inside the CE-zone, but any individual can bye a unit outside the CE-area and use it all over the world, just like the MEG, Optima, KISS, Prism... you name it..
training on rEvo's can be done in and outside the CE-area

regards
paul

***Decodiver*** · 11th November 2006, 11:19

My understanding is that Apecs 2 will still be supported after the apparition of Apecs 3.

There is absolutely NO issue of a diver using non-CE equipment in the EU except in France where it is allowed individually but not as part of a structure (read Club).

As an instructor, I use my Boris to teach Meg courses within the EU and my Meg ex-EU ie Switzerland.

Support from ISC is first class.

I have never had a single unit delivered for my students that was damaged or not working in any way.

Cheers,

Dave Cooper.

decoweenie · 11th November 2006, 12:29

Quote: (Originally Posted by paulraymaekers)

Evo's are not sold inside the CE-zone...

From the posts of Revo divers here, it seems that majority of the Revo buyers are French and Belgians. How have they purchased the units ?

paulraymaekers · 11th November 2006, 12:38

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

From the posts of Revo divers here, it seems that majority of the Revo buyers are French and Belgians. How have they purchased the units ?

as at the time there was no 'selling organisation', the first batch of rEvo's was a special case: the unit was not supplied as it: every diver bought all the items they needed individually in a dive shop, appointed by me: they all had a list of what was needed. metal parts were bought in another place, milled and turned parts again somewhere, and the 'putting together' was done under supervision

from now on, an individual from anywhere can buy a unit in switserland: the selling company will be appointed before the end of the year
sales in the us and east are beiing studied now, but until there is no organisation, sale is done from belgium out.

regards
paul

***caveseeker7*** · 11th November 2006, 13:05

Quote: (Originally Posted by dodelineur)

So on one side I have the CCR I want, but that CCR will be an out of production model in a few month (how to be sure that the only way to repair my apecs 2 in a couple of year will not be just buying an apecs 3 ???).

That's exactly what ISC did to their customers whom they sold the Shearwater controller at a premium when they had problems. So there's a precendent that you'll be SOL.

Gilles · 11th November 2006, 23:00

I can't comment about CE, but I can about the quite superb ISC service. Only don't count on e-mail to get Steve and/or Leons attention!

RonMicjan · 13th November 2006, 06:58

Quote: (Originally Posted by caveseeker7)

That's exactly what ISC did to their customers whom they sold the Shearwater controller at a premium when they had problems. So there's a precendent that you'll be SOL.

not accurate...

There is a difference between an in house built system and a system that was brought in, the apecs 2 system is an in house built system and WILL be supported even after apecs 3 comes out. Persons who had a shearwater system that needed replacing (myself included) were sent back out heads with apecs 2 in them at ISC's considerable expense. Leon backs up what he sells, even if it was or was not his problem. No one was SOL stephan. yes, a few folks lost on board deco when being switched from SR to Apecs, but these folks will also get discounts when A-3 does come out.

***caveseeker7*** · 13th November 2006, 11:19

Original J/S electronics as well as SW are not supported by ISC anymore afaIk.

So ISC hasn't exactly set a shining example as far as previous issue electronics support goes. That's what we know. If they'll support those or other electronics that aren't offered anymore in the future one can believe or not. I just happen to be on the agnostic side of things.

11th November 2006, 09:19	#1 (permalink)
dodelineur New Member Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Belgium (Liège) Posts: 96	CE and ISC service Hello, I have recently sold my inspo to buy a meg. Could anyone tell me exactly what is the implication of diving a non CE CCR within europe? (I am not instructor, so no courses provided), specially for DAN insurance. I was told by ISC that the apecs 2 will not have the CE certification, and will not be produced anymore when the apecs 3 will come for sale. The entire head with handsets will be different from the actual one, and probably the price of the CCr too... So on one side I have the CCR I want, but that CCR will be an out of production model in a few month (how to be sure that the only way to repair my apecs 2 in a couple of year will not be just buying an apecs 3 ???). On the other side, there is the new vision, wich is CE, and I know the great service from APD for being an inspo diver for some years now... So what are you thinking about that? Does anyone in Europe have return the electronic to ISC, and how was the service porvided? thanks Last edited by dodelineur : 14th November 2006 at 12:30.
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11th November 2006, 09:29	#2 (permalink)
*EBT* Apprentice Luddite Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: UK, Brighton Posts: 2,111	Re: CE and ISC service DAN dont care what you were diving at the time of an incident. The only implications for CE are; 1. 'Working' whilst on the unit (ie teaching) is not possible. 2. Selling the unit is claimed to be an issue, but this isnt the case so far (for private 2nd hand sales) __________________ Eagles May Soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines! RBW Terms of service
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11th November 2006, 09:33	#3 (permalink)
paulraymaekers rEvo's daddy Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: May 2005 Location: belgium Posts: 1,638	Re: CE and ISC service Quote: (Originally Posted by dodelineur) Hello, I have recently sold my inspo to buy a meg. Could anyone now exactly what is the implication of diving a non CE CCR within europe? (I am not instructor, so no courses provided), specially for DAN insurance. I can only comment the first question: as far as I know, any individual anywhere over the world is free to dive a unit CE or not. The individual can bye anywhere in the world a unit that is not CE, and use it in the CE-zone. Dan does not specify that the unit you dive has to be CE, but that you must be properly trained and dive the unit within its limits and your training limits. non-CE units may not be sold commercially IN the CE-zone, private sales can, but I'm not sure if it has implications for the seller if anything happens training on a non-CE unit IN the CE-zone is not a problem: (but it is not clear if or not the instructor can use a non-CE unit during the training in the CE-zone) (can a MEG instructor use his MEG when training a student on a MEG inside the CE-zone??) rEvo's are not sold inside the CE-zone, but any individual can bye a unit outside the CE-area and use it all over the world, just like the MEG, Optima, KISS, Prism... you name it.. training on rEvo's can be done in and outside the CE-area regards paul __________________ www.rEvo-rebreathers.com .... the earth is flat, Elvis is alive, and radial scrubbers give longer dwell time than axials...
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11th November 2006, 11:19	#4 (permalink)
*Decodiver* Administrator Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Geneva Posts: 2,194	Re: CE and ISC service My understanding is that Apecs 2 will still be supported after the apparition of Apecs 3. There is absolutely NO issue of a diver using non-CE equipment in the EU except in France where it is allowed individually but not as part of a structure (read Club). As an instructor, I use my Boris to teach Meg courses within the EU and my Meg ex-EU ie Switzerland. Support from ISC is first class. I have never had a single unit delivered for my students that was damaged or not working in any way. Cheers, Dave Cooper. __________________ CCR/OC Trimix Instructor Trainer CCR Training to Mixed Gas in Switzerland, France, UK & Germany on Megalodon/COPIS-Megalodon/KISS/Sport KISS/Ouroboros/rEvo/Inspiration/Evolution/Sentinel www.zerogravitydiving.com Rebreather World Terms & Conditions
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11th November 2006, 12:29	#5 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,487	Re: CE and ISC service Quote: (Originally Posted by paulraymaekers) Evo's are not sold inside the CE-zone... From the posts of Revo divers here, it seems that majority of the Revo buyers are French and Belgians. How have they purchased the units ? __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
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11th November 2006, 12:38	#6 (permalink)
paulraymaekers rEvo's daddy Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: May 2005 Location: belgium Posts: 1,638	Re: CE and ISC service Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) From the posts of Revo divers here, it seems that majority of the Revo buyers are French and Belgians. How have they purchased the units ? as at the time there was no 'selling organisation', the first batch of rEvo's was a special case: the unit was not supplied as it: every diver bought all the items they needed individually in a dive shop, appointed by me: they all had a list of what was needed. metal parts were bought in another place, milled and turned parts again somewhere, and the 'putting together' was done under supervision from now on, an individual from anywhere can buy a unit in switserland: the selling company will be appointed before the end of the year sales in the us and east are beiing studied now, but until there is no organisation, sale is done from belgium out. regards paul __________________ www.rEvo-rebreathers.com .... the earth is flat, Elvis is alive, and radial scrubbers give longer dwell time than axials...
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11th November 2006, 13:05	#7 (permalink)
*caveseeker7* Who loves ya, baby Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Too far from Neverland Posts: 5,556	Re: CE and ISC service Quote: (Originally Posted by dodelineur) So on one side I have the CCR I want, but that CCR will be an out of production model in a few month (how to be sure that the only way to repair my apecs 2 in a couple of year will not be just buying an apecs 3 ???). That's exactly what ISC did to their customers whom they sold the Shearwater controller at a premium when they had problems. So there's a precendent that you'll be SOL. __________________ Cheers Stefan "Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.!"
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11th November 2006, 23:00	#8 (permalink)
Gilles Worship the feminine Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Den Haag (Netherlands) Posts: 762	Re: CE and ISC service I can't comment about CE, but I can about the quite superb ISC service. Only don't count on e-mail to get Steve and/or Leons attention! __________________ Gilles http://www.dirrebreather.com
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13th November 2006, 06:58	#9 (permalink)
RonMicjan Cap Ron scourge of the NW Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Dolphin Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Dolphin Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cape Disapointment, The Graveyard of the Pacific Posts: 1,120	Re: CE and ISC service Quote: (Originally Posted by caveseeker7) That's exactly what ISC did to their customers whom they sold the Shearwater controller at a premium when they had problems. So there's a precendent that you'll be SOL. not accurate... There is a difference between an in house built system and a system that was brought in, the apecs 2 system is an in house built system and WILL be supported even after apecs 3 comes out. Persons who had a shearwater system that needed replacing (myself included) were sent back out heads with apecs 2 in them at ISC's considerable expense. Leon backs up what he sells, even if it was or was not his problem. No one was SOL stephan. yes, a few folks lost on board deco when being switched from SR to Apecs, but these folks will also get discounts when A-3 does come out. __________________ Marine rescue, towing and salvage. Interfering with natural selection since 1983. www.tmishop.com Diving bits etc. www.seatowpdx.com The Summer Job
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13th November 2006, 11:19	#10 (permalink)
*caveseeker7* Who loves ya, baby Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Too far from Neverland Posts: 5,556	Re: CE and ISC service Original J/S electronics as well as SW are not supported by ISC anymore afaIk. So ISC hasn't exactly set a shining example as far as previous issue electronics support goes. That's what we know. If they'll support those or other electronics that aren't offered anymore in the future one can believe or not. I just happen to be on the agnostic side of things. __________________ Cheers Stefan "Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.!"
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