Vision & APECS 3

bambang · 10th October 2006, 16:01

HI Guys,

I need some input here, I hope you guys dont mind dropping some thoughts:
I am almost certain that I am getting Megalodon in the next couple of months. But I need more information regarding their APEC 3 computer. Can anyone give me info, how this electronics compare to Vision from APD? I need input such as the methodology of the operation, easiness of the operation, display etc...Currently I have 87 hours with EVO/Vision and loving every minute of it. Some people told me that Meg electronics does not come with Deco/TMx software? Is this true? Iam sure there are many of you that have dived both electronics, please let me know what you think.

Thanks,

Benthic · 10th October 2006, 16:24

The current version of Meg software (APECS 2) does not include Deco/Bottom Timer functionality. It only manages the loop pO2.

The next version of Meg software (APECS 3) will apparently contain an integrated decompression algorithm. However, it's not on the market yet. I don't believe that ISC has formally released a features list.

The current scuttlebutt is that ISC will be announcing APECS 3 at DEMA, however that is only a rumor as far as I know.

Brian

Explorer · 15th May 2007, 17:55

Now, since we have a Evo in our family last week and had a close look at the Vision handset, Could the vision handset be added to the Meg head?

SimonK · 15th May 2007, 18:30

Quote: (Originally Posted by Explorer)

Now, since we have a Evo in our family last week and had a close look at the Vision handset, Could the vision handset be added to the Meg head?

No, the vision handset talks to the controllers over a serial link. It won't talk to the meg electronics. You could try the shearwater meg conversion

Shearwater Research Inc. - Computers for Diving

Simon

mountain diver · 15th May 2007, 19:24

Quote: (Originally Posted by SimonK)

No, the vision handset talks to the controllers over a serial link. It won't talk to the meg electronics. You could try the shearwater meg conversion

Shearwater Research Inc. - Computers for Diving

Simon

so, why not delete the meg electronic's avoiding the need to create a new
serial link? and install vision unit in as a seperate piece. (retro fit)
aka. vision meg. any home builders want a go at it.

**Gill Envy** · 15th May 2007, 19:34

IMHO, the build quality on the meg hardware is superior to the Evo while on the other hand the vision electronics are superior to the Apex II. Even the Apex III won't have the temp stick, which is a very cool element of the vision. If you are loving every minute of the vision, why not hold off till the Apex III comes out and then take another look?

I don't think one is automatically better than the other, you will have to work out your priorities. If you need a unit that you can abuse a bit more the meg would probably be the choice. If you are doing mostly boat dives and not planning on dragging your unit across rocky shore entries, then the advantages of the vision would sway me.

On the otherhand, you are far away from either hatchery. If field servicability is a high priority to you then a meg would likely be the choice. You can even take a technician course to be able to do just about any repair on the meg...AP does not offer that but i'm told that SDS is thinking of putting together an expedition kit to expand the potential for field repairs.

g

Quote: (Originally Posted by bambang)

HI Guys,

I need some input here, I hope you guys dont mind dropping some thoughts:
I am almost certain that I am getting Megalodon in the next couple of months. But I need more information regarding their APEC 3 computer. Can anyone give me info, how this electronics compare to Vision from APD? I need input such as the methodology of the operation, easiness of the operation, display etc...Currently I have 87 hours with EVO/Vision and loving every minute of it. Some people told me that Meg electronics does not come with Deco/TMx software? Is this true? Iam sure there are many of you that have dived both electronics, please let me know what you think.

Thanks,

Pelagian · 15th May 2007, 19:49

Currently there's just no way to decide on Vision vs. hypothetical APECS 3.

Given the amount of input ISC has activley sought from both it's current customers as well as the rebreather community at large, I believe the APECS 3 will be rather special.

Having said that most things with rebreathers take at least a year longer than projected(Vision, O2ptima, Meg Radial etc). For this reason I'm gonna have Bruce over at Shearwater replace my controller and primary handset with his unit.

No doubt when the APECS 3 comes out and blows the competition out of the water, i'll invest in a new head, but for the time being if you want a Meg(and lets face it who wouldn't ;o), and you want live deco + a controller then your two options are the HammerMeg conversion from Juergensen Marine, or the Shearwater GF.

These are fully working feature rich options that you can actually compare and get peoples opinions on right now.

If you just want live deco for the moment, and are content to wait for the APECS 3 to get a controller, then a VR-3/2 hooked up to the new 4th cell holder that ISC announced recently will give you that, and again a component that actually exists and you can make an informed choice about.

I should point out that the APECS 2 is an excellent unit. I've done all my diving on it thus far, as have a lot of people, and am now just getting greedy for new toys.

Happy shopping

Seb

jptaylor9 · 15th May 2007, 19:53

Quote: (Originally Posted by Gill Envy)

IMHO, the build quality on the meg hardware is superior to the Evo while on the other hand the vision electronics are superior to the Apex II.

Is the build quality of the Meg really superior & is it actually necessary? Build quality of the Inspo seems "sufficient for the job" to me...

Watching a program on tanks (ones with guns) last night & comment was that the Russian T34 was basic & easy to build in quantity, whereas the German tanks were "over engineered". Germans simply couldn't build enough of them, same was true versus the US Sherman tank.

Far more Inspo/Evo units both Classic & Vision have been produced.

Just a random thought

JT

Pelagian · 15th May 2007, 20:15

Quote: (Originally Posted by jptaylor9)

Is the build quality of the Meg really superior & is it actually necessary? Build quality of the Inspo seems "sufficient for the job" to me...

Watching a program on tanks (ones with guns) last night & comment was that the Russian T34 was basic & easy to build in quantity, whereas the German tanks were "over engineered". Germans simply couldn't build enough of them, same was true versus the US Sherman tank.

Far more Inspo/Evo units both Classic & Vision have been produced.

Just a random thought

JT

Interesting

I think that the point of Russian tanks was not that the build quality was poor, just un-complicated which made them more reliable than the German. These may have been of equal or better build quality but I'm sure being German they were more complicated.

I believe the build quality of the Meg comes in it's robustness, it's modularity and reduction in number of specialist parts. This makes it a more "In the field" friendly unit, just like the Russian tanks and Ak-47's.

As for the electronics... The Vision has a lot more features than the APECS 2 but as a result is more complicated and has a greater number of failure points. The APECS 2 are conversely less feature rich but more robust.

I've just realised that I'm drawing an analogy between the Americans and the Russians and if that weren't enough to get my arse kicked, i've gonna and done the same thing between the English and the Germans.

I'll shut up now

Seb

**Gill Envy** · 15th May 2007, 20:46

that's a good question and my point is that the right answer is relative to what your needs are. If you don't need a tank then it's overkill... for you.

g

Quote: (Originally Posted by jptaylor9)

Is the build quality of the Meg really superior & is it actually necessary? Build quality of the Inspo seems "sufficient for the job" to me...

Watching a program on tanks (ones with guns) last night & comment was that the Russian T34 was basic & easy to build in quantity, whereas the German tanks were "over engineered". Germans simply couldn't build enough of them, same was true versus the US Sherman tank.

Far more Inspo/Evo units both Classic & Vision have been produced.

Just a random thought

JT

10th October 2006, 16:01	#1 (permalink)
bambang New Member Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Jakarta Posts: 50	Vision & APECS 3 HI Guys, I need some input here, I hope you guys dont mind dropping some thoughts: I am almost certain that I am getting Megalodon in the next couple of months. But I need more information regarding their APEC 3 computer. Can anyone give me info, how this electronics compare to Vision from APD? I need input such as the methodology of the operation, easiness of the operation, display etc...Currently I have 87 hours with EVO/Vision and loving every minute of it. Some people told me that Meg electronics does not come with Deco/TMx software? Is this true? Iam sure there are many of you that have dived both electronics, please let me know what you think. Thanks,
(Offline)

10th October 2006, 16:24	#2 (permalink)
Benthic MEGalomaniac Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Pensacola, FL USA Posts: 226	Re: Vision & APECS 3 The current version of Meg software (APECS 2) does not include Deco/Bottom Timer functionality. It only manages the loop pO2. The next version of Meg software (APECS 3) will apparently contain an integrated decompression algorithm. However, it's not on the market yet. I don't believe that ISC has formally released a features list. The current scuttlebutt is that ISC will be announcing APECS 3 at DEMA, however that is only a rumor as far as I know. Brian __________________ Well lit rooms will not repel determined beer ninjas.
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15th May 2007, 17:55	#3 (permalink)
Explorer I will teach you a..... Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 784	Re: Vision & APECS 3 Now, since we have a Evo in our family last week and had a close look at the Vision handset, Could the vision handset be added to the Meg head? __________________ KONA COFFEE
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15th May 2007, 18:30	#4 (permalink)
SimonK Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Cumbria UK Posts: 231	Re: Vision & APECS 3 Quote: (Originally Posted by Explorer) Now, since we have a Evo in our family last week and had a close look at the Vision handset, Could the vision handset be added to the Meg head? No, the vision handset talks to the controllers over a serial link. It won't talk to the meg electronics. You could try the shearwater meg conversion Shearwater Research Inc. - Computers for Diving Simon
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15th May 2007, 19:24	#5 (permalink)
mountain diver Silent Lucidity Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: edmonton, ab. Posts: 228	Re: Vision & APECS 3 Quote: (Originally Posted by SimonK) No, the vision handset talks to the controllers over a serial link. It won't talk to the meg electronics. You could try the shearwater meg conversion Shearwater Research Inc. - Computers for Diving Simon so, why not delete the meg electronic's avoiding the need to create a new serial link? and install vision unit in as a seperate piece. (retro fit) aka. vision meg. any home builders want a go at it.
(Offline)

15th May 2007, 19:34	#6 (permalink)
Gill Envy Shearwater Copis Divers Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Evolution Other CCR Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: seattle Posts: 1,347	Re: Vision & APECS 3 IMHO, the build quality on the meg hardware is superior to the Evo while on the other hand the vision electronics are superior to the Apex II. Even the Apex III won't have the temp stick, which is a very cool element of the vision. If you are loving every minute of the vision, why not hold off till the Apex III comes out and then take another look? I don't think one is automatically better than the other, you will have to work out your priorities. If you need a unit that you can abuse a bit more the meg would probably be the choice. If you are doing mostly boat dives and not planning on dragging your unit across rocky shore entries, then the advantages of the vision would sway me. On the otherhand, you are far away from either hatchery. If field servicability is a high priority to you then a meg would likely be the choice. You can even take a technician course to be able to do just about any repair on the meg...AP does not offer that but i'm told that SDS is thinking of putting together an expedition kit to expand the potential for field repairs. g Quote: (Originally Posted by bambang) HI Guys, I need some input here, I hope you guys dont mind dropping some thoughts: I am almost certain that I am getting Megalodon in the next couple of months. But I need more information regarding their APEC 3 computer. Can anyone give me info, how this electronics compare to Vision from APD? I need input such as the methodology of the operation, easiness of the operation, display etc...Currently I have 87 hours with EVO/Vision and loving every minute of it. Some people told me that Meg electronics does not come with Deco/TMx software? Is this true? Iam sure there are many of you that have dived both electronics, please let me know what you think. Thanks, __________________ Gill Envy ...Because I wasn't born with gills! ><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>
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15th May 2007, 19:49	#7 (permalink)
Pelagian Multi-Circuit Meg Monkey! Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Sport Kiss Optima Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Leeds, England Posts: 310	Re: Vision & APECS 3 Currently there's just no way to decide on Vision vs. hypothetical APECS 3. Given the amount of input ISC has activley sought from both it's current customers as well as the rebreather community at large, I believe the APECS 3 will be rather special. Having said that most things with rebreathers take at least a year longer than projected(Vision, O2ptima, Meg Radial etc). For this reason I'm gonna have Bruce over at Shearwater replace my controller and primary handset with his unit. No doubt when the APECS 3 comes out and blows the competition out of the water, i'll invest in a new head, but for the time being if you want a Meg(and lets face it who wouldn't ;o), and you want live deco + a controller then your two options are the HammerMeg conversion from Juergensen Marine, or the Shearwater GF. These are fully working feature rich options that you can actually compare and get peoples opinions on right now. If you just want live deco for the moment, and are content to wait for the APECS 3 to get a controller, then a VR-3/2 hooked up to the new 4th cell holder that ISC announced recently will give you that, and again a component that actually exists and you can make an informed choice about. I should point out that the APECS 2 is an excellent unit. I've done all my diving on it thus far, as have a lot of people, and am now just getting greedy for new toys. Happy shopping Seb __________________ 'Because... I was Inverted!'
(Offline)

15th May 2007, 19:53	#8 (permalink)
jptaylor9 RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 316	Re: Vision & APECS 3 Quote: (Originally Posted by Gill Envy) IMHO, the build quality on the meg hardware is superior to the Evo while on the other hand the vision electronics are superior to the Apex II. Is the build quality of the Meg really superior & is it actually necessary? Build quality of the Inspo seems "sufficient for the job" to me... Watching a program on tanks (ones with guns) last night & comment was that the Russian T34 was basic & easy to build in quantity, whereas the German tanks were "over engineered". Germans simply couldn't build enough of them, same was true versus the US Sherman tank. Far more Inspo/Evo units both Classic & Vision have been produced. Just a random thought JT
(Offline)

15th May 2007, 20:15	#9 (permalink)
Pelagian Multi-Circuit Meg Monkey! Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Sport Kiss Optima Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Leeds, England Posts: 310	Re: Vision & APECS 3 Quote: (Originally Posted by jptaylor9) Is the build quality of the Meg really superior & is it actually necessary? Build quality of the Inspo seems "sufficient for the job" to me... Watching a program on tanks (ones with guns) last night & comment was that the Russian T34 was basic & easy to build in quantity, whereas the German tanks were "over engineered". Germans simply couldn't build enough of them, same was true versus the US Sherman tank. Far more Inspo/Evo units both Classic & Vision have been produced. Just a random thought JT Interesting I think that the point of Russian tanks was not that the build quality was poor, just un-complicated which made them more reliable than the German. These may have been of equal or better build quality but I'm sure being German they were more complicated. I believe the build quality of the Meg comes in it's robustness, it's modularity and reduction in number of specialist parts. This makes it a more "In the field" friendly unit, just like the Russian tanks and Ak-47's. As for the electronics... The Vision has a lot more features than the APECS 2 but as a result is more complicated and has a greater number of failure points. The APECS 2 are conversely less feature rich but more robust. I've just realised that I'm drawing an analogy between the Americans and the Russians and if that weren't enough to get my arse kicked, i've gonna and done the same thing between the English and the Germans. I'll shut up now Seb __________________ 'Because... I was Inverted!'
(Offline)

15th May 2007, 20:46	#10 (permalink)
Gill Envy Shearwater Copis Divers Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Evolution Other CCR Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: seattle Posts: 1,347	Re: Vision & APECS 3 that's a good question and my point is that the right answer is relative to what your needs are. If you don't need a tank then it's overkill... for you. g Quote: (Originally Posted by jptaylor9) Is the build quality of the Meg really superior & is it actually necessary? Build quality of the Inspo seems "sufficient for the job" to me... Watching a program on tanks (ones with guns) last night & comment was that the Russian T34 was basic & easy to build in quantity, whereas the German tanks were "over engineered". Germans simply couldn't build enough of them, same was true versus the US Sherman tank. Far more Inspo/Evo units both Classic & Vision have been produced. Just a random thought JT __________________ Gill Envy ...Because I wasn't born with gills! ><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>
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