Diving without a stage bottle

wannabe · 30th May 2005, 09:44

Hello, I would like to know has any meg owners dive without a stage bottle at recreational depth? If so how comfortable are you without it?

Thanks

Mark Chase · 30th May 2005, 10:37

Quote: (Originally Posted by wannabe)

Hello, I would like to know has any meg owners dive without a stage bottle at recreational depth? If so how comfortable are you without it?

Thanks

Does it make any diferance what unit your on? I dive the YBOD to recreational depths without a stage when I am confiden of getting up to the surface on 150bar of on board diluient and obviously have no deco comitment. For me thats about max 25-30m. With a Meg your dill bottles could be what ever size you like so obviously it has a larger operational window.

The argument of all eggs in one basket then comes into play but is it any worse than single tank PADI diving without a pony?

ATB

Mark Chase

wannabe · 30th May 2005, 14:38

Hello Mark, thanks for your info. As I am trained on the meg, there is obviously no point of reference for me. I am also new to rebreather that is why I use this portal to gain a better insight.

Since the manual recommends the use of stage bottle as an added safety I am curious if it can be used without the stage bottle. I remember seeing the dolphin without a stage bottle, just wonder if a CCR can be used without one.

As I am using a meg I thought I post this question in the meg section. If I had a Ybod, naturally I would have ask in the inspiration forum.

that being said, I know that the procedure is to decend slowly to prevent O2 spike. but if one dive a rebreather with current running, is there a way to decend faster perhaps with an optimum setpt?

gd day

***Decodiver*** · 30th May 2005, 14:56

I have been diving CCR for 16 years and I won't even get in a swimming pool without a bailout stage cylinder.

I am also a CCR Mixed Gas IT and Meg Instructor. My advice is that you can drown in 5 inches of water.

Cheers,

Dave Cooper.

Mdemon · 30th May 2005, 14:58

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase)

The argument of all eggs in one basket then comes into play but is it any worse than single tank PADI diving without a pony?

Thinking about it, a vanilla Inspo/Meg is like diving lopsided twins, rather than single tank. If your enormous CCR-shaped tin ceases to work, you have that teeny 3li tin (pony?) to get you home. I don't think, even without a stage, that we are ever as badly off as the poor snorkel-festooned, 12li packing PADI trainees. The only thing we have in common I guess is the fantastic feeling you get after your first dive...

wannabe · 30th May 2005, 15:17

a big thank you to dave and mdemon. u give me a different perspective!

Mdemon · 30th May 2005, 15:43

You're welcome!

But I do think I should point out that until I swapped the standard 3li tins for 6li tins, I had never dived without a stage except on the course. My 6li x 2 is bailout enough for MOD1 depths (I have access to all gases through DSV/gas connectors) now. You wouldn't jump out of a plane without a reserve parachute - same goes for diving...

Per Sørensen · 30th May 2005, 19:27

Quote: (Originally Posted by Decodiver)

I have been diving CCR for 16 years and I won't even get in a swimming pool without a bailout stage cylinder.

I am also a CCR Mixed Gas IT and Meg Instructor. My advice is that you can drown in 5 inches of water.

Cheers,

Dave Cooper.

Just to be curios, how many times in your 16 years have you had to do an OC bailout ?,
and how many of times was that within recreational limits (40m) ?

I'm a beginner CCR, but I have never taken a bailout cylinder with me, but I've never been any deeper than 45m (air as dilluent)

Per Sørensen

Mark Chase · 30th May 2005, 19:53

Quote: (Originally Posted by wannabe)

Hello Mark, thanks for your info. As I am trained on the meg, there is obviously no point of reference for me. I am also new to rebreather that is why I use this portal to gain a better insight.

--------------
That being said, I know that the procedure is to descend slowly to prevent O2 spike. but if one dive a rebreather with current running, is there a way to descend faster perhaps with an optimum setpt?

gd day

Basically the Meg and the YBOD work along the same lines. Variable set point three sensors with voting logic monitoring your 02 and injecting enough to keep your chosen set point.

I am told the Meg divers trained in the USA prefer to run the units on a low set point something like 1.0 and maintain dive set point at chosen depth manually. However the equipment does have the option of an electronically managed set point and I assume this will be the option of choice on deep dives.

Generally the YBOD divers run two set points of 0.7 and 1.X (usually between 1.2 and 1.4).

The unit will default to 0.7 - 1.3 set point unless you chose to change it just before the dive or during the dive. Jumping in on 0.7 set point and descending the shot you can maintain a reasonable speed down to the wreck. Diluient will be injecting manually or automatically all the way down and this keeps the set point under control. I will usually switch at on the way down between20 - 30m on a recreational dive at about 40-60m on a deep dive. This obviously limits my decent speed from this point on but I prefer to get this out of the way on decent as I have found reaching the bottom of the shot a busy time where things like switching set point can get forgotten. On the way down my master controller is in my hand and being regularly checked so it’s a good time to switch.

ATB

Mark Chase

***Decodiver*** · 30th May 2005, 20:00

Quote: (Originally Posted by Per Sørensen)

Just to be curios, how many times in your 16 years have you had to do an OC bailout ?,
and how many of times was that within recreational limits (40m) ?

I'm a beginner CCR, but I have never taken a bailout cylinder with me, but I've never been any deeper than 45m (air as dilluent)

Per Sørensen

Hi Per,

Full OC bailout and ascent, three times. Once 82 metres, once 70ish metres and once at 55 metres.

On all three occassions I was diving alone, on one of them I would have died without OC bailout.

Going OC to clear my head or when doing Dil Flushes off the loop, more than I can remember, though please bear in mind I demonstrate this skill on courses all the time.

If you feel you can safely ascend from 45m and do all your deco on your diluent tin then crack on.

I however, have never had the ability to bail-out onto my CCR diluent OC. I use my rebreather to rebreathe.

Now my father was a fast jet pilot in the airforce, and he never bailed out once nor used an ejector seat in the latter years, didn't mean he left them behind though.

Cheers,

Dave Cooper.

30th May 2005, 09:44	#1 (permalink)
wannabe New Member Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 46	Diving without a stage bottle Hello, I would like to know has any meg owners dive without a stage bottle at recreational depth? If so how comfortable are you without it? Thanks
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30th May 2005, 10:37	#2 (permalink)
Mark Chase RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 2,858	Quote: (Originally Posted by wannabe) Hello, I would like to know has any meg owners dive without a stage bottle at recreational depth? If so how comfortable are you without it? Thanks Does it make any diferance what unit your on? I dive the YBOD to recreational depths without a stage when I am confiden of getting up to the surface on 150bar of on board diluient and obviously have no deco comitment. For me thats about max 25-30m. With a Meg your dill bottles could be what ever size you like so obviously it has a larger operational window. The argument of all eggs in one basket then comes into play but is it any worse than single tank PADI diving without a pony? ATB Mark Chase __________________ See my "Doing It Chasey" video where I'm locked into a padded room, naked, with two ball bearings and within an Hour, I manage to lose one and break the other!!! Kevin Juergensen 16/11/08 [/quote]
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30th May 2005, 14:38	#3 (permalink)
wannabe New Member Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 46	Hello Mark, thanks for your info. As I am trained on the meg, there is obviously no point of reference for me. I am also new to rebreather that is why I use this portal to gain a better insight. Since the manual recommends the use of stage bottle as an added safety I am curious if it can be used without the stage bottle. I remember seeing the dolphin without a stage bottle, just wonder if a CCR can be used without one. As I am using a meg I thought I post this question in the meg section. If I had a Ybod, naturally I would have ask in the inspiration forum. that being said, I know that the procedure is to decend slowly to prevent O2 spike. but if one dive a rebreather with current running, is there a way to decend faster perhaps with an optimum setpt? gd day
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30th May 2005, 14:56	#4 (permalink)
*Decodiver* Administrator Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Geneva Posts: 2,194	I have been diving CCR for 16 years and I won't even get in a swimming pool without a bailout stage cylinder. I am also a CCR Mixed Gas IT and Meg Instructor. My advice is that you can drown in 5 inches of water. Cheers, Dave Cooper. __________________ CCR/OC Trimix Instructor Trainer CCR Training to Mixed Gas in Switzerland, France, UK & Germany on Megalodon/COPIS-Megalodon/KISS/Sport KISS/Ouroboros/rEvo/Inspiration/Evolution/Sentinel www.zerogravitydiving.com Rebreather World Terms & Conditions
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30th May 2005, 14:58	#5 (permalink)
Mdemon SiegeEngine II Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Home Build Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: SWUK Posts: 1,946	Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase) The argument of all eggs in one basket then comes into play but is it any worse than single tank PADI diving without a pony? Thinking about it, a vanilla Inspo/Meg is like diving lopsided twins, rather than single tank. If your enormous CCR-shaped tin ceases to work, you have that teeny 3li tin (pony?) to get you home. I don't think, even without a stage, that we are ever as badly off as the poor snorkel-festooned, 12li packing PADI trainees. The only thing we have in common I guess is the fantastic feeling you get after your first dive... __________________ www.southwestmafia.com "small minds talk about people, Average Minds Talk About Events, GREAT MINDS TALK ABOUT IDEAS!" The WRONG Attitude will get you killed. "Once the agenda-monkeys and perfect-worlders have moved on, perhaps we can do some diving?"
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30th May 2005, 15:17	#6 (permalink)
wannabe New Member Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 46	a big thank you to dave and mdemon. u give me a different perspective!
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30th May 2005, 15:43	#7 (permalink)
Mdemon SiegeEngine II Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Home Build Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: SWUK Posts: 1,946	You're welcome! But I do think I should point out that until I swapped the standard 3li tins for 6li tins, I had never dived without a stage except on the course. My 6li x 2 is bailout enough for MOD1 depths (I have access to all gases through DSV/gas connectors) now. You wouldn't jump out of a plane without a reserve parachute - same goes for diving... __________________ www.southwestmafia.com "small minds talk about people, Average Minds Talk About Events, GREAT MINDS TALK ABOUT IDEAS!" The WRONG Attitude will get you killed. "Once the agenda-monkeys and perfect-worlders have moved on, perhaps we can do some diving?"
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30th May 2005, 19:27	#8 (permalink)
Per Sørensen New Member Current Rebreather/s: Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2005 Location: Denmark Posts: 5	Quote: (Originally Posted by Decodiver) I have been diving CCR for 16 years and I won't even get in a swimming pool without a bailout stage cylinder. I am also a CCR Mixed Gas IT and Meg Instructor. My advice is that you can drown in 5 inches of water. Cheers, Dave Cooper. Just to be curios, how many times in your 16 years have you had to do an OC bailout ?, and how many of times was that within recreational limits (40m) ? I'm a beginner CCR, but I have never taken a bailout cylinder with me, but I've never been any deeper than 45m (air as dilluent) Per Sørensen
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30th May 2005, 19:53	#9 (permalink)
Mark Chase RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 2,858	Quote: (Originally Posted by wannabe) Hello Mark, thanks for your info. As I am trained on the meg, there is obviously no point of reference for me. I am also new to rebreather that is why I use this portal to gain a better insight. -------------- That being said, I know that the procedure is to descend slowly to prevent O2 spike. but if one dive a rebreather with current running, is there a way to descend faster perhaps with an optimum setpt? gd day Basically the Meg and the YBOD work along the same lines. Variable set point three sensors with voting logic monitoring your 02 and injecting enough to keep your chosen set point. I am told the Meg divers trained in the USA prefer to run the units on a low set point something like 1.0 and maintain dive set point at chosen depth manually. However the equipment does have the option of an electronically managed set point and I assume this will be the option of choice on deep dives. Generally the YBOD divers run two set points of 0.7 and 1.X (usually between 1.2 and 1.4). The unit will default to 0.7 - 1.3 set point unless you chose to change it just before the dive or during the dive. Jumping in on 0.7 set point and descending the shot you can maintain a reasonable speed down to the wreck. Diluient will be injecting manually or automatically all the way down and this keeps the set point under control. I will usually switch at on the way down between20 - 30m on a recreational dive at about 40-60m on a deep dive. This obviously limits my decent speed from this point on but I prefer to get this out of the way on decent as I have found reaching the bottom of the shot a busy time where things like switching set point can get forgotten. On the way down my master controller is in my hand and being regularly checked so it’s a good time to switch. ATB Mark Chase __________________ See my "Doing It Chasey" video where I'm locked into a padded room, naked, with two ball bearings and within an Hour, I manage to lose one and break the other!!! Kevin Juergensen 16/11/08 [/quote]
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30th May 2005, 20:00	#10 (permalink)
*Decodiver* Administrator Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Geneva Posts: 2,194	Quote: (Originally Posted by Per Sørensen) Just to be curios, how many times in your 16 years have you had to do an OC bailout ?, and how many of times was that within recreational limits (40m) ? I'm a beginner CCR, but I have never taken a bailout cylinder with me, but I've never been any deeper than 45m (air as dilluent) Per Sørensen Hi Per, Full OC bailout and ascent, three times. Once 82 metres, once 70ish metres and once at 55 metres. On all three occassions I was diving alone, on one of them I would have died without OC bailout. Going OC to clear my head or when doing Dil Flushes off the loop, more than I can remember, though please bear in mind I demonstrate this skill on courses all the time. If you feel you can safely ascend from 45m and do all your deco on your diluent tin then crack on. I however, have never had the ability to bail-out onto my CCR diluent OC. I use my rebreather to rebreathe. Now my father was a fast jet pilot in the airforce, and he never bailed out once nor used an ejector seat in the latter years, didn't mean he left them behind though. Cheers, Dave Cooper. __________________ CCR/OC Trimix Instructor Trainer CCR Training to Mixed Gas in Switzerland, France, UK & Germany on Megalodon/COPIS-Megalodon/KISS/Sport KISS/Ouroboros/rEvo/Inspiration/Evolution/Sentinel www.zerogravitydiving.com Rebreather World Terms & Conditions
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