Defining specs of my Meg: Help !

***caveseeker7*** · 18th May 2005, 03:56

Quote: (Originally Posted by Robert Cook)

... a radial scrubber in mini-meg size? That would make for a hell of a tech-travel unit

Not necessarily, Robert.
It would certainly make one hell of a travel rig, as is any Mini-Meg.

During their co-op Steam Machines and Carlton were testing a smaller version (i.e. shorter) of the current radial scrubber used in the PRISM. I don't remember the exact numbers, but it failed testing in cold water at depth. And between those two companies you've got a lot of engineering power. So there's a fair chance that the 'tech' part wouldn't work out in the Mini-Meg, either.

***schford*** · 18th May 2005, 08:48

Quote: (Originally Posted by bgpartri)

Stuart,

I'm surprised. I dive a VR3 as my backup computer and find the profiles are very close. They both clear within minutes.

The GF algorithm will never give stops as deep as the microbubble stops on the VR3, but GF will then give a couple of intermediate stops that the VR3 doesn't, then they will pretty much sync up.

I used to play around with the GF, but I usually just leave it on the 30/85 default now. It gives me deeper stops than pure Buhlmann and I think that's the right thing to do.

Let me know how the HSE compares and the conservatism setting.

Bruce - you know way way more about this stuff than me - I was theorising and playing back some practical observations othersI had had :

The thinking behind it was that as the VR3 basically uses Pyle Stops (currently) then you are still going to be ongasing when you undertake those pyle stops and those deep stops dont follow the profile of Gradient Factors.

My comment was more focussed around the profile(shape of) of the deco being different tween VR3 and GF rather than total run times - I would have though that the longer the run time the more that gap would increase compared to GF which is set up to mirror RGBM (or perhaps VPM B).

I have been running the shearwater on 10/90 profile for last few weekends (max 10 mins deco) and touch wood feel great. Now I have the HS plumbed in hope to feed back how closely the deco profiles match. Some gas mixtures need 10/99 so shall feed back soon.

Cheers

Stuart

Philippe GERIN · 18th May 2005, 21:57

Quote: (Originally Posted by wreckweasel)

Traitor

Are you flogging your KISS then Phillipe??

/Z

Nah! Well not yet anyway. Depends how business does. Maybe by the end of the year?

The Meg WILL be my next breather IF I can afford to go e-ccr and IF it gets CE. Otherwise I'll just keep my Kiss. I just see no point changing the Kiss if it's not for a CE marked Meg. No offense meant for other e-ccr divers. It's just my choice:
CE mark: because I travel to France and plan to get my butt back home eventually. I'm fed up to be kicked out of some clubs in the Med because my Kiss has no CE plate.

Meg: electronic supported, tough construction, compact assembly.
Best
Philippe

***schford*** · 18th May 2005, 22:00

What clubs would kick you out if yoiur breather is not CE approved - that is appalling. No where in Eu Law does it say that a Rebreather must be CE approved for you to use it for your diving.

Spill the beans so we know never to use them!

OK you can not sell it nor accept paid employment whilst using it - but not use it yoruself - sheesh!

Stuart

Andy M · 18th May 2005, 22:03

Quote: (Originally Posted by Philippe GERIN)

CE mark: because I travel to France and plan to get my butt back home eventually. I'm fed up to be kicked out of some clubs in the Med because my Kiss has no CE plate.

What? First I have heard of this. Many people dive KISS in the Med and Dave Thompson does his KISS training in the Med. Are you referring to dive clubs or dive shops here. Do any shops/boats actually ban non-CE units?

Cant imagine that ever happening here in the UK!

Andy

cedricverdier · 19th May 2005, 09:14

Quote: (Originally Posted by schford)

What clubs would kick you out if yoiur breather is not CE approved - that is appalling. No where in Eu Law does it say that a Rebreather must be CE approved for you to use it for your diving.

Spill the beans so we know never to use them!

OK you can not sell it nor accept paid employment whilst using it - but not use it yoruself - sheesh!

Stuart

Hi Stuart,

Unfortunately France is a stange country (I guess you already knew that

). There are some very specific regulations about recreational diving but also about Mixed Gas diving and rebreather use. Those rules don't really apply to individuals with their own private boat or diving from the shore.
But when a dive centre deals with public (either as a not-for-profit association or a commercial facility), everything becomes more complex and CE marking becomes an issue when it comes to rebreather. As usual, the regulations are not always 100% clear and can be read in many different ways but in general, diving operators prefer to stay on the safe side.
Life(and diving in France) would be so much easier without those regulations

Cheers

Andy M · 19th May 2005, 09:48

Quote: (Originally Posted by cedricverdier)

But when a dive centre deals with public (either as a not-for-profit association or a commercial facility), everything becomes more complex and CE marking becomes an issue when it comes to rebreather.

Youve got me worried now. I am going diving in South France with my Sport KISS off a charter boat in two weeks time. I have visions of not being allowed to dive with my KISS

Philippe GERIN · 19th May 2005, 14:23

Quote: (Originally Posted by Andy M)

Youve got me worried now.

Andy,
As Cedric said this is not clear to everybody. Since it happened to me now I check prior to going there. I tell them that I will dive my CCR Kiss and if they see a problem. If yes, I just go somewhere else.
Now, if your dive club charters the boat for diving then I guess you're responsible for all purposes related to diving and the Captain is for boat handling and navigation, not for diving. Then he wouldn't care what you dive. Just guessing here.
I'd suggest you PM Dave as he would know more.
Best
Philippe

cedricverdier · 20th May 2005, 07:55

Quote: (Originally Posted by Andy M)

Youve got me worried now. I am going diving in South France with my Sport KISS off a charter boat in two weeks time. I have visions of not being allowed to dive with my KISS

Hi Andy,

To be on the safe side, just ask the diving operator first. There are several options:
- the guy will tell you if it's okay or not for a not-yet-CE-approved rebreather on his boat

- the guy doesn't have a clue about rebreather and CE marking (and even more about the KISS) but he wants to keep you as a customer. So he will say Yes (or OUI in French)
- the guy simply doesn't care about regulations!

Don't hesitate to PM me if your need any further details.

Cheers

18th May 2005, 03:56	#11 (permalink)
*caveseeker7* Who loves ya, baby Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Too far from Neverland Posts: 5,325	Quote: (Originally Posted by Robert Cook) ... a radial scrubber in mini-meg size? That would make for a hell of a tech-travel unit Not necessarily, Robert. It would certainly make one hell of a travel rig, as is any Mini-Meg. During their co-op Steam Machines and Carlton were testing a smaller version (i.e. shorter) of the current radial scrubber used in the PRISM. I don't remember the exact numbers, but it failed testing in cold water at depth. And between those two companies you've got a lot of engineering power. So there's a fair chance that the 'tech' part wouldn't work out in the Mini-Meg, either. __________________ Cheers Stefan "It is still a good day if you are on the green side of the grass! Su amigo Roberto!" Sponsor Lou in Race For Life!
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18th May 2005, 08:48	#12 (permalink)
*schford* Despotic Overlord Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 3,662	Quote: (Originally Posted by bgpartri) Stuart, I'm surprised. I dive a VR3 as my backup computer and find the profiles are very close. They both clear within minutes. The GF algorithm will never give stops as deep as the microbubble stops on the VR3, but GF will then give a couple of intermediate stops that the VR3 doesn't, then they will pretty much sync up. I used to play around with the GF, but I usually just leave it on the 30/85 default now. It gives me deeper stops than pure Buhlmann and I think that's the right thing to do. Let me know how the HSE compares and the conservatism setting. Bruce - you know way way more about this stuff than me - I was theorising and playing back some practical observations othersI had had : The thinking behind it was that as the VR3 basically uses Pyle Stops (currently) then you are still going to be ongasing when you undertake those pyle stops and those deep stops dont follow the profile of Gradient Factors. My comment was more focussed around the profile(shape of) of the deco being different tween VR3 and GF rather than total run times - I would have though that the longer the run time the more that gap would increase compared to GF which is set up to mirror RGBM (or perhaps VPM B). I have been running the shearwater on 10/90 profile for last few weekends (max 10 mins deco) and touch wood feel great. Now I have the HS plumbed in hope to feed back how closely the deco profiles match. Some gas mixtures need 10/99 so shall feed back soon. Cheers Stuart
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18th May 2005, 21:57	#13 (permalink)
Philippe GERIN ccr apprentice Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2005 Location: Strasbourg, France Posts: 626	Quote: (Originally Posted by wreckweasel) Traitor Are you flogging your KISS then Phillipe?? /Z Nah! Well not yet anyway. Depends how business does. Maybe by the end of the year? The Meg WILL be my next breather IF I can afford to go e-ccr and IF it gets CE. Otherwise I'll just keep my Kiss. I just see no point changing the Kiss if it's not for a CE marked Meg. No offense meant for other e-ccr divers. It's just my choice: CE mark: because I travel to France and plan to get my butt back home eventually. I'm fed up to be kicked out of some clubs in the Med because my Kiss has no CE plate. Meg: electronic supported, tough construction, compact assembly. Best Philippe
(Offline)

18th May 2005, 22:00	#14 (permalink)
*schford* Despotic Overlord Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 3,662	What clubs would kick you out if yoiur breather is not CE approved - that is appalling. No where in Eu Law does it say that a Rebreather must be CE approved for you to use it for your diving. Spill the beans so we know never to use them! OK you can not sell it nor accept paid employment whilst using it - but not use it yoruself - sheesh! Stuart
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18th May 2005, 22:03	#15 (permalink)
Andy M Dude Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Cambridge, UK Posts: 410	Quote: (Originally Posted by Philippe GERIN) CE mark: because I travel to France and plan to get my butt back home eventually. I'm fed up to be kicked out of some clubs in the Med because my Kiss has no CE plate. What? First I have heard of this. Many people dive KISS in the Med and Dave Thompson does his KISS training in the Med. Are you referring to dive clubs or dive shops here. Do any shops/boats actually ban non-CE units? Cant imagine that ever happening here in the UK! Andy __________________ Know your PO2 at all times
(Offline)

19th May 2005, 09:14	#16 (permalink)
cedricverdier S21 M.I.B. Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Worldwide! Posts: 488	Quote: (Originally Posted by schford) What clubs would kick you out if yoiur breather is not CE approved - that is appalling. No where in Eu Law does it say that a Rebreather must be CE approved for you to use it for your diving. Spill the beans so we know never to use them! OK you can not sell it nor accept paid employment whilst using it - but not use it yoruself - sheesh! Stuart Hi Stuart, Unfortunately France is a stange country (I guess you already knew that ). There are some very specific regulations about recreational diving but also about Mixed Gas diving and rebreather use. Those rules don't really apply to individuals with their own private boat or diving from the shore. But when a dive centre deals with public (either as a not-for-profit association or a commercial facility), everything becomes more complex and CE marking becomes an issue when it comes to rebreather. As usual, the regulations are not always 100% clear and can be read in many different ways but in general, diving operators prefer to stay on the safe side. Life(and diving in France) would be so much easier without those regulations Cheers __________________ Cedric Verdier PADI Course Director, ANDI-IANTD-PSAI-TDI-DSAT-DAN-NAUI-CMAS Instructor Trainer Trimix (CCR and OC) and Cave Diving Instructor Trainer www.CedricVerdier.com DIRrebreather member
(Offline)

19th May 2005, 09:48	#17 (permalink)
Andy M Dude Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Cambridge, UK Posts: 410	Quote: (Originally Posted by cedricverdier) But when a dive centre deals with public (either as a not-for-profit association or a commercial facility), everything becomes more complex and CE marking becomes an issue when it comes to rebreather. Youve got me worried now. I am going diving in South France with my Sport KISS off a charter boat in two weeks time. I have visions of not being allowed to dive with my KISS __________________ Know your PO2 at all times
(Offline)

19th May 2005, 14:23	#18 (permalink)
Philippe GERIN ccr apprentice Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2005 Location: Strasbourg, France Posts: 626	Quote: (Originally Posted by Andy M) Youve got me worried now. Andy, As Cedric said this is not clear to everybody. Since it happened to me now I check prior to going there. I tell them that I will dive my CCR Kiss and if they see a problem. If yes, I just go somewhere else. Now, if your dive club charters the boat for diving then I guess you're responsible for all purposes related to diving and the Captain is for boat handling and navigation, not for diving. Then he wouldn't care what you dive. Just guessing here. I'd suggest you PM Dave as he would know more. Best Philippe
(Offline)

20th May 2005, 07:55	#19 (permalink)
cedricverdier S21 M.I.B. Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Worldwide! Posts: 488	Quote: (Originally Posted by Andy M) Youve got me worried now. I am going diving in South France with my Sport KISS off a charter boat in two weeks time. I have visions of not being allowed to dive with my KISS Hi Andy, To be on the safe side, just ask the diving operator first. There are several options: - the guy will tell you if it's okay or not for a not-yet-CE-approved rebreather on his boat - the guy doesn't have a clue about rebreather and CE marking (and even more about the KISS) but he wants to keep you as a customer. So he will say Yes (or OUI in French) - the guy simply doesn't care about regulations! Don't hesitate to PM me if your need any further details. Cheers __________________ Cedric Verdier PADI Course Director, ANDI-IANTD-PSAI-TDI-DSAT-DAN-NAUI-CMAS Instructor Trainer Trimix (CCR and OC) and Cave Diving Instructor Trainer www.CedricVerdier.com DIRrebreather member
(Offline)

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