Meg Radial Scrubber Test report

RonMicjan · 19th August 2006, 21:50

Quote: (Originally Posted by dive2dive2000)

Oh, let the banter begin

Now that all the ISC (Leon) and Diver ass kissing

is over, how about some sats instead of opinions? I fail to see the advantage of a Radial scrubber in a Meg because of its gas flow direction. BUt with you and Cedrics right ups obviously I am misunderstanding the releavance of gas direction and radial scrubbers, or am I? Please inlighten me

Ah so grasshopper, you time of enlightenment is at hand, first your spelling, I believe you mean STATS instead of SATS, WRITE ups, instead of RIGHT ups, RELEVANCE, not RELEAVANCE, and ENLIGHTEN instead of INLIGHTEN. Further enlightenment as I see fit, to set you on the path of rebreather and spelling correctness.

/[smartass mode off]

notice I didnt say anything disparaging about the PRISM, other than that the scrubber is a toy, I present this challenge, take your scrubber and attempt to destroy it with your bare hands, I will take my radial MEG scrubber and do the same.....OW, my hands hurt...OK, how many pieces is your scrubber in??

Next, take your assembled unit and drop it to the ground from 4 feet high, I will do the same...OK lets go diving!! what, you say your scrubber is in pieces and your plenum has broken off its mounting tabs??? MR MEG is ready to go!!

Anyone who has seen both units side by side (and I have) can easily debate that the build quality and robustness of the meg is far superior to the PRISM, that is the point I am making here.

As far as numbers, I know Leon well enough to trust him that what is says is the absolute truth, honor and trust are as important to the man as breathing is. My own experience diving this canister has proved to me its the best one I have ever dived.

As far as gas direction, I dont understand your question.

On using all the scrubber, when I dump the canister, I can see a purple band starting from the outside through the length of the unit, so from that it appears that all the material is being used, perhaps the path of least resistance is through material that has not been used. I have wondered myself how this works as I dont know the theory behind it, perhaps someone else could enlighten me. This would be the course of serial enlightenment onto the seventh nirvana. Didnt stuart write about this here on RBW?

OK back to my regularly scheduled work day...

Micko · 19th August 2006, 23:19

notice I didnt say anything disparaging about the PRISM, other than that the scrubber is a toy, I present this challenge, take your scrubber and attempt to destroy it with your bare hands, I will take my radial MEG scrubber and do the same.....OW, my hands hurt...OK, how many pieces is your scrubber in??

Next, take your assembled unit and drop it to the ground from 4 feet high, I will do the same...OK lets go diving!! what, you say your scrubber is in pieces and your plenum has broken off its mounting tabs??? MR MEG is ready to go!!

Anyone who has seen both units side by side (and I have) can easily debate that the build quality and robustness of the meg is far superior to the PRISM, that is the point I am making here.

Could not agree more ...
Having owned a Prism i think they are a great unit however the build Quality is a weak point.
The WOB is awsome it really is easy to breath however again when i purchase i buy for the complete package.
I have used a prism scruber in Meg and Wob is a little better but not enough to rant about as i believe the Meg breaths well any way.

scubadan · 20th August 2006, 04:40

Thanks for the report Cedric.

When do you think the 7.5 lb Radial will be ready for "Prime Time"

(My meg is supposed to ship on 11 September)

silent running · 20th August 2006, 07:17

Quote: (Originally Posted by RonMicjan)

catching up to the prism, yup, this would be the third time its been lapped!! The prism scrubber is a toy compared to this.

Hi Ron, I thought the thread/test report was about the performance of the scrubber...

The Prism is designed to be the lightest and simplest ECCR, which it is. The scrubber may be made or mesh and plastic but these materials have lots of give and it's not that fragile-I've dropped my fully packed one a few feet and it was fine. And of course it weighs a lot less than a metal one. I don't really see a real need to make a scrubber out of perforated SS, except for the cool factor. Hey, why not make it out of billet and charge $10,000 for it? Most people handle a scrubber with more care, as you're not supposed let it come into contact with dirty surfaces. And with the longer duration, it doesn't seem very likely that you'd ever wind up packing it in the RIB...
And most importantly, I'd guess that mesh allows more gas to flow more evenly, than perforated SS. If thats true, the WOB will be lower and the duration longer than the same size scrubbber made with perf SS. Oh, and there's 0 chance the Prism scrubber will ever rust.

As for flow direction, It's my understanding that inside to out is the optimal way to go and outside to in will cause a decrease in duration and a increase in WOB. Inside to out would also cause more condensate to collect on the outside of the scrubber housing, away from the scrubber as the scrubbed gas is a higher temp and will condense more against the cooler water on the outside of the scrubber housing and eventually wind up in the trap at the bottom of the scrubber housing.

And also, the Prism scrubbber has been pushed to 11 hrs and it's only 6lbs. I'm sure the Meg radiial scrubber will work well, but it's got many laps to go before it's as thoroughly tested as the Prism "toy" radial -Andy

paulraymaekers · 20th August 2006, 10:52

Quote: (Originally Posted by silent running)

As for flow direction, It's my understanding that inside to out is the optimal way to go and outside to in will cause a decrease in duration and a increase in WOB.

can anyone explain that to me??

regards
paul

silent running · 21st August 2006, 04:49

Quote: (Originally Posted by paulraymaekers)

can anyone explain that to me??

regards
paul

Hi Paul, I will try to get a refresher on the details from Mr. Ready, and I will take notes this time... -Andy

Steve · 21st August 2006, 05:05

Quote: (Originally Posted by silent running)

Hi Paul, I will try to get a refresher on the details from Mr. Ready, and I will take notes this time... -Andy

Please be sure to ask him for the test data for the gas flow in both directions for the Topaz scrubber. I know Pete will have a lot of answers as to why the way he has built the Topaz is the right way but I for one would really like to see the how he arrived at his answer rather than simply 'taking his word for it'.

***jradomski*** · 21st August 2006, 05:19

Quote: (Originally Posted by silent running)

As for flow direction, It's my understanding that inside to out is the optimal way to go and outside to in will cause a decrease in duration and a increase in WOB. -Andy

Andy,

All test data I have ever heard about, only supports In to Out increases duration.. Home much it increases it really depends on the cannister and how insulated it is.. What it helps is the scrubber when it is near the end of life, since temperature determines how active a chemical reaction is (overal efficiency, remember no scrubber for our use uses all the available chemical).. If dwell time were long enough it wouldn't make ANY difference

As to WOB, if you get a wet scrubber out to in will breath easier (since it can usually be trapped away from the scrubber) and will allow use with much more water in the cannister..

dive2dive2000 · 21st August 2006, 16:41

Quote: (Originally Posted by silent running)

Hi Ron, I thought the thread/test report was about the performance of the scrubber...

The Prism is designed to be the lightest and simplest ECCR, which it is. The scrubber may be made or mesh and plastic but these materials have lots of give and it's not that fragile-I've dropped my fully packed one a few feet and it was fine. And of course it weighs a lot less than a metal one. I don't really see a real need to make a scrubber out of perforated SS, except for the cool factor. Hey, why not make it out of billet and charge $10,000 for it? Most people handle a scrubber with more care, as you're not supposed let it come into contact with dirty surfaces. And with the longer duration, it doesn't seem very likely that you'd ever wind up packing it in the RIB...
And most importantly, I'd guess that mesh allows more gas to flow more evenly, than perforated SS. If thats true, the WOB will be lower and the duration longer than the same size scrubbber made with perf SS. Oh, and there's 0 chance the Prism scrubber will ever rust.

As for flow direction, It's my understanding that inside to out is the optimal way to go and outside to in will cause a decrease in duration and a increase in WOB. Inside to out would also cause more condensate to collect on the outside of the scrubber housing, away from the scrubber as the scrubbed gas is a higher temp and will condense more against the cooler water on the outside of the scrubber housing and eventually wind up in the trap at the bottom of the scrubber housing.

And also, the Prism scrubbber has been pushed to 11 hrs and it's only 6lbs. I'm sure the Meg radiial scrubber will work well, but it's got many laps to go before it's as thoroughly tested as the Prism "toy" radial -Andy

Hi Ron,

Yeah what he said

dive2dive2000 · 21st August 2006, 17:06

Quote: (Originally Posted by RonMicjan)

Ah so grasshopper, you time of enlightenment is at hand, first your spelling, I believe you mean STATS instead of SATS, WRITE ups, instead of RIGHT ups, RELEVANCE, not RELEAVANCE, and ENLIGHTEN instead of INLIGHTEN. Further enlightenment as I see fit, to set you on the path of rebreather and spelling correctness.

/[smartass mode off]

notice I didnt say anything disparaging about the PRISM, other than that the scrubber is a toy, I present this challenge, take your scrubber and attempt to destroy it with your bare hands, I will take my radial MEG scrubber and do the same.....OW, my hands hurt...OK, how many pieces is your scrubber in??

Next, take your assembled unit and drop it to the ground from 4 feet high, I will do the same...OK lets go diving!! what, you say your scrubber is in pieces and your plenum has broken off its mounting tabs??? MR MEG is ready to go!!

Anyone who has seen both units side by side (and I have) can easily debate that the build quality and robustness of the meg is far superior to the PRISM, that is the point I am making here.

As far as numbers, I know Leon well enough to trust him that what is says is the absolute truth, honor and trust are as important to the man as breathing is. My own experience diving this canister has proved to me its the best one I have ever dived.

As far as gas direction, I dont understand your question.

On using all the scrubber, when I dump the canister, I can see a purple band starting from the outside through the length of the unit, so from that it appears that all the material is being used, perhaps the path of least resistance is through material that has not been used. I have wondered myself how this works as I dont know the theory behind it, perhaps someone else could enlighten me. This would be the course of serial enlightenment onto the seventh nirvana. Didnt stuart write about this here on RBW?

OK back to my regularly scheduled work day...

Hi Ron

As far as spelling I post late at night and could care less if correct or not, add a spell check to the fourm and I will be more than happy to correct my poor grammer skills.

Stuart and I did discuss this as well as other members but I would have liked to have seen your views on why out to in is better than in to out. I am glad to hear how great and honorable a man "leon is". This thread and my question really has nothing to do with Leons honor Meg quallity or my ****ing grammer skills. My question is what makes the meg Radail scrubber so good Oh you already answered it Leon is an honest man. When people start promoting products based on honor and flaws of other products I start to get a little speckulative. But I am guy who cant spell so what do I know

If you dive a unit because of the builder and dont honestly know the reasons why some things are good and some are bad, I guess your not as expereience as I have given you credit for, but you are one hell of a speller and writer

19th August 2006, 21:50	#31 (permalink)
RonMicjan Cap Ron scourge of the NW Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Dolphin Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Dolphin Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cape Disapointment, The Graveyard of the Pacific Posts: 1,120	Re: Meg Radial Scrubber Test report Quote: (Originally Posted by dive2dive2000) Oh, let the banter begin Now that all the ISC (Leon) and Diver ass kissing is over, how about some sats instead of opinions? I fail to see the advantage of a Radial scrubber in a Meg because of its gas flow direction. BUt with you and Cedrics right ups obviously I am misunderstanding the releavance of gas direction and radial scrubbers, or am I? Please inlighten me Ah so grasshopper, you time of enlightenment is at hand, first your spelling, I believe you mean STATS instead of SATS, WRITE ups, instead of RIGHT ups, RELEVANCE, not RELEAVANCE, and ENLIGHTEN instead of INLIGHTEN. Further enlightenment as I see fit, to set you on the path of rebreather and spelling correctness. /[smartass mode off] notice I didnt say anything disparaging about the PRISM, other than that the scrubber is a toy, I present this challenge, take your scrubber and attempt to destroy it with your bare hands, I will take my radial MEG scrubber and do the same.....OW, my hands hurt...OK, how many pieces is your scrubber in?? Next, take your assembled unit and drop it to the ground from 4 feet high, I will do the same...OK lets go diving!! what, you say your scrubber is in pieces and your plenum has broken off its mounting tabs??? MR MEG is ready to go!! Anyone who has seen both units side by side (and I have) can easily debate that the build quality and robustness of the meg is far superior to the PRISM, that is the point I am making here. As far as numbers, I know Leon well enough to trust him that what is says is the absolute truth, honor and trust are as important to the man as breathing is. My own experience diving this canister has proved to me its the best one I have ever dived. As far as gas direction, I dont understand your question. On using all the scrubber, when I dump the canister, I can see a purple band starting from the outside through the length of the unit, so from that it appears that all the material is being used, perhaps the path of least resistance is through material that has not been used. I have wondered myself how this works as I dont know the theory behind it, perhaps someone else could enlighten me. This would be the course of serial enlightenment onto the seventh nirvana. Didnt stuart write about this here on RBW? OK back to my regularly scheduled work day... __________________ Marine rescue, towing and salvage. Interfering with natural selection since 1983. www.tmishop.com Diving bits etc. www.seatowpdx.com The Summer Job
(Offline)

19th August 2006, 23:19	#32 (permalink)
Micko Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: perth Posts: 114	Re: Meg Radial Scrubber Test report notice I didnt say anything disparaging about the PRISM, other than that the scrubber is a toy, I present this challenge, take your scrubber and attempt to destroy it with your bare hands, I will take my radial MEG scrubber and do the same.....OW, my hands hurt...OK, how many pieces is your scrubber in?? Next, take your assembled unit and drop it to the ground from 4 feet high, I will do the same...OK lets go diving!! what, you say your scrubber is in pieces and your plenum has broken off its mounting tabs??? MR MEG is ready to go!! Anyone who has seen both units side by side (and I have) can easily debate that the build quality and robustness of the meg is far superior to the PRISM, that is the point I am making here. Could not agree more ... Having owned a Prism i think they are a great unit however the build Quality is a weak point. The WOB is awsome it really is easy to breath however again when i purchase i buy for the complete package. I have used a prism scruber in Meg and Wob is a little better but not enough to rant about as i believe the Meg breaths well any way.
(Offline)

20th August 2006, 04:40	#33 (permalink)
scubadan New Member Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Dolphin Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Richmond, Va Posts: 35	Re: Meg Radial Scrubber Test report Thanks for the report Cedric. When do you think the 7.5 lb Radial will be ready for "Prime Time" (My meg is supposed to ship on 11 September)
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20th August 2006, 07:17	#34 (permalink)
silent running Mature mouth breather Current Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: U.S.A. Brooklyn, New York Posts: 1,873	Re: Meg Radial Scrubber Test report Quote: (Originally Posted by RonMicjan) catching up to the prism, yup, this would be the third time its been lapped!! The prism scrubber is a toy compared to this. Hi Ron, I thought the thread/test report was about the performance of the scrubber... The Prism is designed to be the lightest and simplest ECCR, which it is. The scrubber may be made or mesh and plastic but these materials have lots of give and it's not that fragile-I've dropped my fully packed one a few feet and it was fine. And of course it weighs a lot less than a metal one. I don't really see a real need to make a scrubber out of perforated SS, except for the cool factor. Hey, why not make it out of billet and charge $10,000 for it? Most people handle a scrubber with more care, as you're not supposed let it come into contact with dirty surfaces. And with the longer duration, it doesn't seem very likely that you'd ever wind up packing it in the RIB... And most importantly, I'd guess that mesh allows more gas to flow more evenly, than perforated SS. If thats true, the WOB will be lower and the duration longer than the same size scrubbber made with perf SS. Oh, and there's 0 chance the Prism scrubber will ever rust. As for flow direction, It's my understanding that inside to out is the optimal way to go and outside to in will cause a decrease in duration and a increase in WOB. Inside to out would also cause more condensate to collect on the outside of the scrubber housing, away from the scrubber as the scrubbed gas is a higher temp and will condense more against the cooler water on the outside of the scrubber housing and eventually wind up in the trap at the bottom of the scrubber housing. And also, the Prism scrubbber has been pushed to 11 hrs and it's only 6lbs. I'm sure the Meg radiial scrubber will work well, but it's got many laps to go before it's as thoroughly tested as the Prism "toy" radial -Andy
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20th August 2006, 10:52	#35 (permalink)
paulraymaekers rEvo's daddy Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: May 2005 Location: belgium Posts: 1,638	Re: Meg Radial Scrubber Test report Quote: (Originally Posted by silent running) As for flow direction, It's my understanding that inside to out is the optimal way to go and outside to in will cause a decrease in duration and a increase in WOB. can anyone explain that to me?? regards paul __________________ www.rEvo-rebreathers.com .... the earth is flat, Elvis is alive, and radial scrubbers give longer dwell time than axials...
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21st August 2006, 04:49	#36 (permalink)
silent running Mature mouth breather Current Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: U.S.A. Brooklyn, New York Posts: 1,873	Re: Meg Radial Scrubber Test report Quote: (Originally Posted by paulraymaekers) can anyone explain that to me?? regards paul Hi Paul, I will try to get a refresher on the details from Mr. Ready, and I will take notes this time... -Andy
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21st August 2006, 05:05	#37 (permalink)
Steve Ladies bring a plate Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Classic Kiss MK 15.X Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Perth - Australia Posts: 1,126	Re: Meg Radial Scrubber Test report Quote: (Originally Posted by silent running) Hi Paul, I will try to get a refresher on the details from Mr. Ready, and I will take notes this time... -Andy Please be sure to ask him for the test data for the gas flow in both directions for the Topaz scrubber. I know Pete will have a lot of answers as to why the way he has built the Topaz is the right way but I for one would really like to see the how he arrived at his answer rather than simply 'taking his word for it'. __________________ WARNING: I contain occasional coarse language, extreme sexual references, nudity, and adult themes, which may offend some people - Usually churchy types.
(Online)

21st August 2006, 05:19	#38 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 3,113	Re: Meg Radial Scrubber Test report Quote: (Originally Posted by silent running) As for flow direction, It's my understanding that inside to out is the optimal way to go and outside to in will cause a decrease in duration and a increase in WOB. -Andy Andy, All test data I have ever heard about, only supports In to Out increases duration.. Home much it increases it really depends on the cannister and how insulated it is.. What it helps is the scrubber when it is near the end of life, since temperature determines how active a chemical reaction is (overal efficiency, remember no scrubber for our use uses all the available chemical).. If dwell time were long enough it wouldn't make ANY difference As to WOB, if you get a wet scrubber out to in will breath easier (since it can usually be trapped away from the scrubber) and will allow use with much more water in the cannister.. __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.
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21st August 2006, 16:41	#39 (permalink)
dive2dive2000 PRISM DIVER & LUVIN IT! Current Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 796	Re: Meg Radial Scrubber Test report Quote: (Originally Posted by silent running) Hi Ron, I thought the thread/test report was about the performance of the scrubber... The Prism is designed to be the lightest and simplest ECCR, which it is. The scrubber may be made or mesh and plastic but these materials have lots of give and it's not that fragile-I've dropped my fully packed one a few feet and it was fine. And of course it weighs a lot less than a metal one. I don't really see a real need to make a scrubber out of perforated SS, except for the cool factor. Hey, why not make it out of billet and charge $10,000 for it? Most people handle a scrubber with more care, as you're not supposed let it come into contact with dirty surfaces. And with the longer duration, it doesn't seem very likely that you'd ever wind up packing it in the RIB... And most importantly, I'd guess that mesh allows more gas to flow more evenly, than perforated SS. If thats true, the WOB will be lower and the duration longer than the same size scrubbber made with perf SS. Oh, and there's 0 chance the Prism scrubber will ever rust. As for flow direction, It's my understanding that inside to out is the optimal way to go and outside to in will cause a decrease in duration and a increase in WOB. Inside to out would also cause more condensate to collect on the outside of the scrubber housing, away from the scrubber as the scrubbed gas is a higher temp and will condense more against the cooler water on the outside of the scrubber housing and eventually wind up in the trap at the bottom of the scrubber housing. And also, the Prism scrubbber has been pushed to 11 hrs and it's only 6lbs. I'm sure the Meg radiial scrubber will work well, but it's got many laps to go before it's as thoroughly tested as the Prism "toy" radial -Andy Hi Ron, Yeah what he said __________________ Safe Diving, Martin
(Offline)

21st August 2006, 17:06	#40 (permalink)
dive2dive2000 PRISM DIVER & LUVIN IT! Current Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 796	Re: Meg Radial Scrubber Test report Quote: (Originally Posted by RonMicjan) Ah so grasshopper, you time of enlightenment is at hand, first your spelling, I believe you mean STATS instead of SATS, WRITE ups, instead of RIGHT ups, RELEVANCE, not RELEAVANCE, and ENLIGHTEN instead of INLIGHTEN. Further enlightenment as I see fit, to set you on the path of rebreather and spelling correctness. /[smartass mode off] notice I didnt say anything disparaging about the PRISM, other than that the scrubber is a toy, I present this challenge, take your scrubber and attempt to destroy it with your bare hands, I will take my radial MEG scrubber and do the same.....OW, my hands hurt...OK, how many pieces is your scrubber in?? Next, take your assembled unit and drop it to the ground from 4 feet high, I will do the same...OK lets go diving!! what, you say your scrubber is in pieces and your plenum has broken off its mounting tabs??? MR MEG is ready to go!! Anyone who has seen both units side by side (and I have) can easily debate that the build quality and robustness of the meg is far superior to the PRISM, that is the point I am making here. As far as numbers, I know Leon well enough to trust him that what is says is the absolute truth, honor and trust are as important to the man as breathing is. My own experience diving this canister has proved to me its the best one I have ever dived. As far as gas direction, I dont understand your question. On using all the scrubber, when I dump the canister, I can see a purple band starting from the outside through the length of the unit, so from that it appears that all the material is being used, perhaps the path of least resistance is through material that has not been used. I have wondered myself how this works as I dont know the theory behind it, perhaps someone else could enlighten me. This would be the course of serial enlightenment onto the seventh nirvana. Didnt stuart write about this here on RBW? OK back to my regularly scheduled work day... Hi Ron As far as spelling I post late at night and could care less if correct or not, add a spell check to the fourm and I will be more than happy to correct my poor grammer skills. Stuart and I did discuss this as well as other members but I would have liked to have seen your views on why out to in is better than in to out. I am glad to hear how great and honorable a man "leon is". This thread and my question really has nothing to do with Leons honor Meg quallity or my ****ing grammer skills. My question is what makes the meg Radail scrubber so good Oh you already answered it Leon is an honest man. When people start promoting products based on honor and flaws of other products I start to get a little speckulative. But I am guy who cant spell so what do I know If you dive a unit because of the builder and dont honestly know the reasons why some things are good and some are bad, I guess your not as expereience as I have given you credit for, but you are one hell of a speller and writer __________________ Safe Diving, Martin
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