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The COPIS (Ko-pes) Megalodon



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Old 6th April 2007, 08:03   #51 (permalink)
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Re: The COPIS (Ko-pes) Megalodon

Quote: (Originally Posted by silent running) View Original Post
Hi Ron, my understanding is that once you get the hang of a needle, you almost never have to push the button, just adjust the knob once or twice to match consumption. I believe that is part of the object-not to have to push the button. So, no you shouldn't be having to decide all the time whether to push the button or not.

And while the needle is infinitely variable, you don't need to know what your exact flow rate is, only whether you have too much or too little because...it's adjustable. So actually you are constantly checking the flow rate everytime you look at your PO2. We all understand the importance of checking PO2 often, so what's the difference btw checking your displays to see if the flow is good or whether you need to push a button?

IMHO, this strikes me as a difference in what people define as "task loading". A person who dives fixed orafice MCCR is conditioned to the physical activity of pushing the button and looking at the display. A person who manages to master the needle valve is checking their display just as often and thinking about his flow rate everytime he begins to work more or less or changes depth and performing the physical task of adjusting the knob less often than the button pusher in a dive with a variety of workloads. Which is more complacent or task loaded? Is a diver with a fixed orafice, who has an easy dive that matches his predetermined flow and only has to push the button once or twice on a nice slow ascent more complacent than a diver using a needle valve that has to be adjusted twice during a dive, even while finning hard into a current while trying hard not get blown off into blue water or seperated from their buddies?

Personally, I prefer more mental task loading than physical. Why? because I can think about many more things simultaneously than I can physically do things-I'm a better thinker than I am a juggler. I'd guess that Jet pilots are better thinkers than jugglers too.

Oops, I think I hear Sutton running down the tarmac, better get in the bunker...
LOL, that's funny.

Andy, thanks for your input. I can see Ron's point but also see merit in what you are saying, it probably comes down to personal preference in the end. It may also depend a lot on the design of the needle valve, I would guess that the ideal type would adjust very gradually to prevent significant over of undershooting while fumbling through gloves underwater. the botton line is that it's probably not that big a deal either way, needle valve and push botton with constant flow orifice or no needle valve and push button with constant flow orifice, it sounds like either one, if adjusted proerly requires little fiddling during a dive. If I were to ever go mCCR it would not likely be a deal breaker for me. The fact that ISC is just a few hours away vs say the palagian being made in Thailand would probably way heavier for us. I just wish I could have a year on every type of rebreather. so much of the important stuff about one's preferences can only be learned by experience... so many rebreathers, so little time.
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Last edited by Gill Envy : 6th April 2007 at 08:06.
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Old 6th April 2007, 08:17   #52 (permalink)
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Question Re: The COPIS (Ko-pes) Megalodon

Question....I didn't ask Leon the last time that I called so I hope that one of you all know. What is the upgrade cost to the Apeks head if you decide you want to go from mCCR to eCCR?

Thanks in advance,

James
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Old 6th April 2007, 17:59   #53 (permalink)
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Re: The COPIS (Ko-pes) Megalodon

I put a call into leon to get that price, will let you know if/when he calls back, but I will be going up next friday as I have some other stuff to work on, can nail him down then.

Nice reply there SR, especially that last part

You make good points too, heres my last bit of input on that, I know that my fixed orifice will always revert to my "at rest" flow rate anytime I am not manually adding, I like this part. Maybe the needle valve with a set screw so one could always turn fully down and be at the "at rest" rate might be a good alternative, and a similar point for the max flow rate, with maybe one turn in between for adjustment, this could keep one out of trouble by not allowing flow rates beyond the "safe" range. When I played with needle valves, it seemed like I was always "chasing" the perfect point and spending too much time adjusting, rather than doing the dive. When I went to the orifice, it took all that away and made it easy, need O2? little tap on the button.

anyway, thats why there are all these different types of CCR's and systems, no one thing is going to make everyone happy. Except the DIR method, of course, its the only way to dive, ask anyone who drank the kool-aid. oooooo, somebody spank me for that!
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Old 6th April 2007, 20:03   #54 (permalink)
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Re: The COPIS (Ko-pes) Megalodon

Quote: (Originally Posted by RonMicjan) View Original Post

You make good points too, heres my last bit of input on that, I know that my fixed orifice will always revert to my "at rest" flow rate anytime I am not manually adding, I like this part. Maybe the needle valve with a set screw so one could always turn fully down and be at the "at rest" rate might be a good alternative, and a similar point for the max flow rate, with maybe one turn in between for adjustment, this could keep one out of trouble by not allowing flow rates beyond the "safe" range.
Except for the fact that needle valves are usually used with depth compensating 1st stages so is the at rest setting adjusted for depth, shallow,or whatever. It will vary with IP pressure.
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Old 18th June 2007, 18:24   #55 (permalink)
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Re: The COPIS (Ko-pes) Megalodon

Nice article. I am new to CCR and the COPIS is the system I am going to go with. I like the idea of being in control.

Last edited by zoo_diver : 18th June 2007 at 18:41.
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