Shearwater

***caveseeker7*** · 23rd May 2006, 15:15

Steve, when I purchased the key for Quick Time Pro from Apple it was good for several updates over several years.

I also still have an old 7500/100 that I use as a print server. Runs Mac OS 8.6 and still has customer support after 11 years. Apple had lifetime support back then and they still keep people around that know the old systems and softwares, they still stick to the promise they made when I bought it '95.

What's more important in this discussion is that the Shearwater was a $2000 option and ISC decided to stop offering and for most part supporting it. In other words, people payed plenty for an upgrade to include deco. And they can fully expect that the electronics in their life support system work and get supported in case they don't. So exchanging them for electronics that don't have deco is not and upgrade, and they can reasonably expect an exchange to electronics that have the features already paid for.

The proper way to handle this, IMHO, when the Shearwater is no longer offered or supported, is to either exchange for APECS (free under warranty and maybe for a little fee afterwards) and give a refund or exchange for the APECS and offer the 3.0 at a substantial discount (if there are additional features worth additional money).

Do you think there are any Vision customers who shelled out big bucks for their electronics and would accept an "upgrade" to Classic electronics if AP decided to pull them and support for them?

Let me make you a generous offer!

Because it's you Steve, it'll be an exclusive for 48 hrs!!

It's a great offer, so leonesque and jamesy you won't be able to reject it!!!

An upgrade to good to be true!!!!

Send me your used Explorer or VR3 and I'll send you a Uwatec Digital

Yes Steve, I know it's hard to belive but it is true!!!

It's better than anything you could ever hope for, you can upgrade
from a newer deco computer to an older digital gauge design!!

Trade English electronis for Swiss precision!

PS: The battery will last longer, too.

**trob09** · 23rd May 2006, 15:33

Quote: (Originally Posted by caveseeker7)

PS: The battery will last longer, too.

In the case of the meg's electronics, the Shearwater is more power-efficient than the APECS....

***schford*** · 23rd May 2006, 18:58

Quote: (Originally Posted by trob09)

In the case of the meg's electronics, the Shearwater is more power-efficient than the APECS....

I think he meant the battery of a UWATEC timer

**trob09** · 23rd May 2006, 19:05

Quote: (Originally Posted by schford)

I think he meant the battery of a UWATEC timer

I know. I couldn't resist listing one more area where the Shearwater has advantage over APECS...

**wedivebc** · 24th May 2006, 00:56

Quote: (Originally Posted by Steve)

Can anyone think of an industry that does this? A company that researches then implements a software and hardware upgrade and then passes it on to their customers free of charge? I wish I could get same deal on computers and cars etc

If a company sells a product then for whatever reason can no longer honour warranty repairs on that product, replacement with a product of equal value is usually the option they choose.

***jradomski*** · 24th May 2006, 06:01

Quote: (Originally Posted by wedivebc)

If a company sells a product then for whatever reason can no longer honour warranty repairs on that product, replacement with a product of equal value is usually the option they choose.

I agree.. It can get costly though for a small company.. A bit over a decade a go I designed specialty interface for a certain computer, unfortunately one of the chip suppliers stopped producing one of the components that was necessary..

When there was a failure under warranty, it was replaced with the replacement version (which had better specs).. for those out of warranty, it was replaced as well and charged what the equivalent out of warranty repair would have been charged assuming the original could have been fixed it (every one of these was done at a loss but it was good customer relations, and allowed consolidation (to some extent) what was out there)..

In the past it was commonplace to keep the proper inventory to support a product for 5-7 years after it was dropped, nowadays many companies just opt for replacing with a equal product.. Its cheaper in the long run but its not always possible..

For example I had a DVR, that was JUST out of warranty, it was discontinued and couldn't be repaired and since no equal product was available I was given a complete refund.. I know I will by products from this company in the future...

***USSMEG*** · 25th May 2006, 02:26

I have the Shearwater (June 05) and have been very happy with it, But it does make me a little nervous.

Now Leon has always been great with Customer Service. But I have asked for a written warranty and have not gotten one

. I also can not believe that the contracts for the MEG/Shearwater were not in writing before selling them to customers. I was told some of this from Leon. And was very disappointed with the fact that a really nice computer for an Rebreather is failing and that the Designer would not figure out what is wrong with them? (And I know its potted, but there are ways if you willing!) I know Bruce is away at this time, but I do hope he reads this later and is willing to help us who are interested in keeping a Shearwater MEG Running? And I would hope RB Divers everywhere can express to him it is important for him (or whomever works for him) to figure out whats failing in the units?

Later Paul

***schford*** · 25th May 2006, 02:46

Quote: (Originally Posted by USSMEG)

I was told some of this from Leon. And was very disappointed with the fact that a really nice computer for an Rebreather is failing and that the Designer would not figure out what is wrong with them? (And I know its potted, but there are ways if you willing!) I know Bruce is away at this time, but I do hope he reads this later and is willing to help us who are interested in keeping a Shearwater MEG Running?

Bruce did post on here what the problems with early Shearwater equipped Megs were see below....

Quote: (Originally Posted by bgpartri)

This is not true.

Innerspace returned one unpotted board to Shearwater. It was replaced under warranty. There was a bad solder joint.

Innerspace has returned three potted computers that had been used in customer rebreathers and returned.

We determined from testing that at least two of the units had leaked. We ground all of the potting material off one of the units trying to find the leak for Innerspace. Towards the end of this process, the base came off in my hand. It was only being held on by hot glue on the wires. On another unit, I just pulled the base off with no tools. When the base came off, the circuit board was exposed to the outside. There was no bond between the potting material and the Acetal base.

Shearwater replaced all of these units under warranty, but explained the problem to Innerspace. We would continue to replace any units in which the electronics failed. But any units that leaked, would be replaced at a nominal charge of less than the cost of the components on the board. That was an extremely generous offer that very few manufacturers would make.

Innerspace changed its potting procedure, and shipped out more Shearwater boards, which are apparently working fine.

I don't know how many boards went out with the defective potting process, or how the potting process was changed exactly. I don't know how many units were replaced. Shearwater received one board and three potted units and replaced them all under warranty even though at least two of them were clearly not our fault. I don't know why Innerspace chose to replace some more Shearwaters with APEKS without returning the dead units for warranty.

I don't know why Innerspace stopped buying Shearwaters, but I assume their new relationships with Bill Stone, Bill Hamilton, et al had something to do with it.

***USSMEG*** · 25th May 2006, 03:03

Thanks, I did miss that one.
Paul

23rd May 2006, 15:15	#21 (permalink)
*caveseeker7* Who loves ya, baby Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Too far from Neverland Posts: 5,556	Re: Shearwater Steve, when I purchased the key for Quick Time Pro from Apple it was good for several updates over several years. I also still have an old 7500/100 that I use as a print server. Runs Mac OS 8.6 and still has customer support after 11 years. Apple had lifetime support back then and they still keep people around that know the old systems and softwares, they still stick to the promise they made when I bought it '95. What's more important in this discussion is that the Shearwater was a $2000 option and ISC decided to stop offering and for most part supporting it. In other words, people payed plenty for an upgrade to include deco. And they can fully expect that the electronics in their life support system work and get supported in case they don't. So exchanging them for electronics that don't have deco is not and upgrade, and they can reasonably expect an exchange to electronics that have the features already paid for. The proper way to handle this, IMHO, when the Shearwater is no longer offered or supported, is to either exchange for APECS (free under warranty and maybe for a little fee afterwards) and give a refund or exchange for the APECS and offer the 3.0 at a substantial discount (if there are additional features worth additional money). Do you think there are any Vision customers who shelled out big bucks for their electronics and would accept an "upgrade" to Classic electronics if AP decided to pull them and support for them? Let me make you a generous offer! Because it's you Steve, it'll be an exclusive for 48 hrs!! It's a great offer, so leonesque and jamesy you won't be able to reject it!!! An upgrade to good to be true!!!! Send me your used Explorer or VR3 and I'll send you a Uwatec Digital Yes Steve, I know it's hard to belive but it is true!!! It's better than anything you could ever hope for, you can upgrade from a newer deco computer to an older digital gauge design!! Trade English electronis for Swiss precision! PS: The battery will last longer, too. __________________ Cheers Stefan "Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.!" Last edited by caveseeker7 : 23rd May 2006 at 15:23. Reason: An offer this good needs to be spelled correctly !
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23rd May 2006, 15:33	#22 (permalink)
trob09 . Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 701	Re: Shearwater Quote: (Originally Posted by caveseeker7) PS: The battery will last longer, too. In the case of the meg's electronics, the Shearwater is more power-efficient than the APECS....
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23rd May 2006, 18:58	#23 (permalink)
*schford* RBW Founder Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: UK Posts: 3,564	Re: Shearwater Quote: (Originally Posted by trob09) In the case of the meg's electronics, the Shearwater is more power-efficient than the APECS.... I think he meant the battery of a UWATEC timer __________________ Bailout and Kit Management account for Murphy's Law The only bad question is one you did not ask and later wish you had. Use of RBW is subject to the Rebreather World Terms & Conditions of Use
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23rd May 2006, 19:05	#24 (permalink)
trob09 . Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 701	Re: Shearwater Quote: (Originally Posted by schford) I think he meant the battery of a UWATEC timer I know. I couldn't resist listing one more area where the Shearwater has advantage over APECS...
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24th May 2006, 00:56	#25 (permalink)
wedivebc Dave Tomblin Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Vancouver Island BC Canada Posts: 1,508	Re: Shearwater Quote: (Originally Posted by Steve) Can anyone think of an industry that does this? A company that researches then implements a software and hardware upgrade and then passes it on to their customers free of charge? I wish I could get same deal on computers and cars etc If a company sells a product then for whatever reason can no longer honour warranty repairs on that product, replacement with a product of equal value is usually the option they choose. __________________ Cheers, Dave.... Man is the only animal burdened with the knowledge he will eventually die
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24th May 2006, 06:01	#26 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 3,113	Re: Shearwater Quote: (Originally Posted by wedivebc) If a company sells a product then for whatever reason can no longer honour warranty repairs on that product, replacement with a product of equal value is usually the option they choose. I agree.. It can get costly though for a small company.. A bit over a decade a go I designed specialty interface for a certain computer, unfortunately one of the chip suppliers stopped producing one of the components that was necessary.. When there was a failure under warranty, it was replaced with the replacement version (which had better specs).. for those out of warranty, it was replaced as well and charged what the equivalent out of warranty repair would have been charged assuming the original could have been fixed it (every one of these was done at a loss but it was good customer relations, and allowed consolidation (to some extent) what was out there).. In the past it was commonplace to keep the proper inventory to support a product for 5-7 years after it was dropped, nowadays many companies just opt for replacing with a equal product.. Its cheaper in the long run but its not always possible.. For example I had a DVR, that was JUST out of warranty, it was discontinued and couldn't be repaired and since no equal product was available I was given a complete refund.. I know I will by products from this company in the future... __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated. Last edited by jradomski : 24th May 2006 at 06:10.
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25th May 2006, 02:26	#27 (permalink)
*USSMEG* USSMEG Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Mass Posts: 300	Re: Shearwater I have the Shearwater (June 05) and have been very happy with it, But it does make me a little nervous. Now Leon has always been great with Customer Service. But I have asked for a written warranty and have not gotten one . I also can not believe that the contracts for the MEG/Shearwater were not in writing before selling them to customers. I was told some of this from Leon. And was very disappointed with the fact that a really nice computer for an Rebreather is failing and that the Designer would not figure out what is wrong with them? (And I know its potted, but there are ways if you willing!) I know Bruce is away at this time, but I do hope he reads this later and is willing to help us who are interested in keeping a Shearwater MEG Running? And I would hope RB Divers everywhere can express to him it is important for him (or whomever works for him) to figure out whats failing in the units? Later Paul
(Offline)

25th May 2006, 02:46	#28 (permalink)
*schford* RBW Founder Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: UK Posts: 3,564	Re: Shearwater Quote: (Originally Posted by USSMEG) I was told some of this from Leon. And was very disappointed with the fact that a really nice computer for an Rebreather is failing and that the Designer would not figure out what is wrong with them? (And I know its potted, but there are ways if you willing!) I know Bruce is away at this time, but I do hope he reads this later and is willing to help us who are interested in keeping a Shearwater MEG Running? Bruce did post on here what the problems with early Shearwater equipped Megs were see below.... Quote: (Originally Posted by bgpartri) This is not true. Innerspace returned one unpotted board to Shearwater. It was replaced under warranty. There was a bad solder joint. Innerspace has returned three potted computers that had been used in customer rebreathers and returned. We determined from testing that at least two of the units had leaked. We ground all of the potting material off one of the units trying to find the leak for Innerspace. Towards the end of this process, the base came off in my hand. It was only being held on by hot glue on the wires. On another unit, I just pulled the base off with no tools. When the base came off, the circuit board was exposed to the outside. There was no bond between the potting material and the Acetal base. Shearwater replaced all of these units under warranty, but explained the problem to Innerspace. We would continue to replace any units in which the electronics failed. But any units that leaked, would be replaced at a nominal charge of less than the cost of the components on the board. That was an extremely generous offer that very few manufacturers would make. Innerspace changed its potting procedure, and shipped out more Shearwater boards, which are apparently working fine. I don't know how many boards went out with the defective potting process, or how the potting process was changed exactly. I don't know how many units were replaced. Shearwater received one board and three potted units and replaced them all under warranty even though at least two of them were clearly not our fault. I don't know why Innerspace chose to replace some more Shearwaters with APEKS without returning the dead units for warranty. I don't know why Innerspace stopped buying Shearwaters, but I assume their new relationships with Bill Stone, Bill Hamilton, et al had something to do with it. __________________ Bailout and Kit Management account for Murphy's Law The only bad question is one you did not ask and later wish you had. Use of RBW is subject to the Rebreather World Terms & Conditions of Use
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25th May 2006, 03:03	#29 (permalink)
*USSMEG* USSMEG Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Mass Posts: 300	Re: Shearwater Thanks, I did miss that one. Paul
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