Reading the Tea Leaves/Sodasorb Grains

jkaterenchuk · 5th August 2008, 01:43

I am surprized that there have not been more replies from Meg owners. I guess the next step is to send the pics to ISC for comment. So far most comments seem to be on the side of the scrubber not packed properly.

John

Dsix36 · 5th August 2008, 02:28

If it makes you feel any better - I, for one, think that you know how to pack a scrubber.

jkaterenchuk · 5th August 2008, 04:30

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dsix36)

If it makes you feel any better - I, for one, think that you know how to pack a scrubber.

Don

Thanks. I know how I was taught but there is really no way to know if that is the correct way. For example. I was taught to pack the scrubber very tight. But you can go look at a video on the Inspiration company site that shows the proper way to pack their scrubber is quite loose compared to how I was taught. So how do you really know what is right and how tight is tight enough. Certainly with the Extend Air cartridge the manufacturer can measure some properties and ensure they are controlled so that you get consistency from one manufacturing lot to another.

I have sent a email off to ISC to see what they have to say on the issue.

John

AD_ward9 · 5th August 2008, 07:22

Hot air rises. This seems to be the main cause of this phenomenon. Your trim was pretty good to get a shot as nice as this.

Some axial scrubbers have some bypass when laid flat, but it does not seem to be an issue here. Loose fills can cause tunneling, particularly with variable granule size scrubber material. As you say, EACs are the simple solution to all of this.

Incidentally, have you seen the MSDS for the violet dye? Makes for very interesting reading, and personally I would not have it in a rebreather.

Alex

Dutchy · 5th August 2008, 08:39

Transport could make a difference. Transport taps the filling even more with gravity pointing out the direction. I would expext the purple to extend the most on the side that is up during transport.To verify try transporting it upright....

Ben Field · 5th August 2008, 08:59

Quote: (Originally Posted by AD_ward9)

Incidentally, have you seen the MSDS for the violet dye? Makes for very interesting reading, and personally I would not have it in a rebreather.

I have and I agree.... I also suspect it reacts differently in a diving rebreather than its intended use so is about as much use as a chocolate teapot for indication purposes. On the other hand- it would be nice to see the flow and get some idea of how well it was packed.

Scubascooby · 5th August 2008, 10:43

Could this be temperature related ? Affecting either the way the scrubber or the dye reacts.

I don't know the geometry of the Meg scrubber very well but if the outside is cooler than the area close to the divers body then it might alter things. I suppose it depends on your local water temp. I wonder if this phenomena varies between cold water and warm ?

jkaterenchuk · 5th August 2008, 11:00

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dutchy)

Transport could make a difference. Transport taps the filling even more with gravity pointing out the direction. I would expext the purple to extend the most on the side that is up during transport.To verify try transporting it upright....

In the two cases shown the rig was transported standing upright. In each case 3 trips of 20 miles along a highway (two dive days).

John

jkaterenchuk · 5th August 2008, 11:06

Quote: (Originally Posted by Scubascooby)

Could this be temperature related ? Affecting either the way the scrubber or the dye reacts.

I don't know the geometry of the Meg scrubber very well but if the outside is cooler than the area close to the divers body then it might alter things. I suppose it depends on your local water temp. I wonder if this phenomena varies between cold water and warm ?

First dive day it saw water temps down to 41F/4C. The second day and immediately before removal the dive was 2+ hours at 82F/28C water.

John

jkaterenchuk · 5th August 2008, 11:13

Quote: (Originally Posted by AD_ward9)

Hot air rises. This seems to be the main cause of this phenomenon. Your trim was pretty good to get a shot as nice as this.

Some axial scrubbers have some bypass when laid flat, but it does not seem to be an issue here. Loose fills can cause tunneling, particularly with variable granule size scrubber material. As you say, EACs are the simple solution to all of this.

Incidentally, have you seen the MSDS for the violet dye? Makes for very interesting reading, and personally I would not have it in a rebreather.

Alex

I have seen it for the Sodasorb product but do not recollect seeing one for the dye alone. Do you happen to have a link to it available?

John

5th August 2008, 01:43	#21 (permalink)
jkaterenchuk . Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Megalodon Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2006 Location: Lititz, PA Posts: 1,092	Re: Reading the Tea Leaves/Sodasorb Grains I am surprized that there have not been more replies from Meg owners. I guess the next step is to send the pics to ISC for comment. So far most comments seem to be on the side of the scrubber not packed properly. John Last edited by jkaterenchuk : 5th August 2008 at 04:24.
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5th August 2008, 02:28	#22 (permalink)
Dsix36 Going Down? Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Deerfield Beach, Florida Posts: 1,154	Re: Reading the Tea Leaves/Sodasorb Grains If it makes you feel any better - I, for one, think that you know how to pack a scrubber. __________________ THE MORE THAT I LEARN, THE MORE THAT I STILL NEED TO LEARN!!!!!!
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5th August 2008, 04:30	#23 (permalink)
jkaterenchuk . Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Megalodon Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2006 Location: Lititz, PA Posts: 1,092	Re: Reading the Tea Leaves/Sodasorb Grains Quote: (Originally Posted by Dsix36) If it makes you feel any better - I, for one, think that you know how to pack a scrubber. Don Thanks. I know how I was taught but there is really no way to know if that is the correct way. For example. I was taught to pack the scrubber very tight. But you can go look at a video on the Inspiration company site that shows the proper way to pack their scrubber is quite loose compared to how I was taught. So how do you really know what is right and how tight is tight enough. Certainly with the Extend Air cartridge the manufacturer can measure some properties and ensure they are controlled so that you get consistency from one manufacturing lot to another. I have sent a email off to ISC to see what they have to say on the issue. John
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5th August 2008, 07:22	#24 (permalink)
AD_ward9 RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Scotland Posts: 2,011	Re: Reading the Tea Leaves/Sodasorb Grains Hot air rises. This seems to be the main cause of this phenomenon. Your trim was pretty good to get a shot as nice as this. Some axial scrubbers have some bypass when laid flat, but it does not seem to be an issue here. Loose fills can cause tunneling, particularly with variable granule size scrubber material. As you say, EACs are the simple solution to all of this. Incidentally, have you seen the MSDS for the violet dye? Makes for very interesting reading, and personally I would not have it in a rebreather. Alex __________________ Latest FAQ on Open Revolution Apocalypse rebreather is via the topmost item http://www.deeplife.co.uk/or_updates.php. Last updated on 4th October: the last before DEMA!
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5th August 2008, 08:39	#25 (permalink)
Dutchy Rene Warries Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Nieuwegein (The Netherlands) Posts: 844	Re: Reading the Tea Leaves/Sodasorb Grains Transport could make a difference. Transport taps the filling even more with gravity pointing out the direction. I would expext the purple to extend the most on the side that is up during transport.To verify try transporting it upright.... __________________ = This post is environmentally friendly. It is composed of 100% recycled electrons only. =
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5th August 2008, 08:59	#26 (permalink)
Ben Field CK+Shearwater Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: London, England Posts: 1,775	Re: Reading the Tea Leaves/Sodasorb Grains Quote: (Originally Posted by AD_ward9) Incidentally, have you seen the MSDS for the violet dye? Makes for very interesting reading, and personally I would not have it in a rebreather. I have and I agree.... I also suspect it reacts differently in a diving rebreather than its intended use so is about as much use as a chocolate teapot for indication purposes. On the other hand- it would be nice to see the flow and get some idea of how well it was packed. __________________ Know your PPO2, Pre-breath, Use checklists, Validate cells at 6mtrs, Use pure O2 at or near surface, Use a BOV, Don't dive Solo, Change Slime and Cells as recommended by Manufacturer and RTFM! Beware Fridge Suck! www.hugsac.org.uk
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5th August 2008, 10:43	#27 (permalink)
Scubascooby Better Off Out of the EU Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Great Britain Posts: 418	Re: Reading the Tea Leaves/Sodasorb Grains Could this be temperature related ? Affecting either the way the scrubber or the dye reacts. I don't know the geometry of the Meg scrubber very well but if the outside is cooler than the area close to the divers body then it might alter things. I suppose it depends on your local water temp. I wonder if this phenomena varies between cold water and warm ? __________________ "dove" is NOT the past tense of "dive" Better off OUT of the EU ! www.hugsac.org.uk
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5th August 2008, 11:00	#28 (permalink)
jkaterenchuk . Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Megalodon Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2006 Location: Lititz, PA Posts: 1,092	Re: Reading the Tea Leaves/Sodasorb Grains Quote: (Originally Posted by Dutchy) Transport could make a difference. Transport taps the filling even more with gravity pointing out the direction. I would expext the purple to extend the most on the side that is up during transport.To verify try transporting it upright.... In the two cases shown the rig was transported standing upright. In each case 3 trips of 20 miles along a highway (two dive days). John
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5th August 2008, 11:06	#29 (permalink)
jkaterenchuk . Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Megalodon Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2006 Location: Lititz, PA Posts: 1,092	Re: Reading the Tea Leaves/Sodasorb Grains Quote: (Originally Posted by Scubascooby) Could this be temperature related ? Affecting either the way the scrubber or the dye reacts. I don't know the geometry of the Meg scrubber very well but if the outside is cooler than the area close to the divers body then it might alter things. I suppose it depends on your local water temp. I wonder if this phenomena varies between cold water and warm ? First dive day it saw water temps down to 41F/4C. The second day and immediately before removal the dive was 2+ hours at 82F/28C water. John
(Offline)

5th August 2008, 11:13	#30 (permalink)
jkaterenchuk . Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Megalodon Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2006 Location: Lititz, PA Posts: 1,092	Re: Reading the Tea Leaves/Sodasorb Grains Quote: (Originally Posted by AD_ward9) Hot air rises. This seems to be the main cause of this phenomenon. Your trim was pretty good to get a shot as nice as this. Some axial scrubbers have some bypass when laid flat, but it does not seem to be an issue here. Loose fills can cause tunneling, particularly with variable granule size scrubber material. As you say, EACs are the simple solution to all of this. Incidentally, have you seen the MSDS for the violet dye? Makes for very interesting reading, and personally I would not have it in a rebreather. Alex I have seen it for the Sodasorb product but do not recollect seeing one for the dye alone. Do you happen to have a link to it available? John
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