COPIS or APECS

Dsix36 · 24th June 2008, 02:43

Quote: (Originally Posted by Twain)

Taking Matt's car comparison a bit too far, you could say MCCR vs ECCR is a bit like automatic vs stick transmissions in cars.

With both an automatic and a stick transmission you can monitor the system (tachometer). With both you can manually control if you need to (putting the lever in "1" instead of "drive"). Same thing for MCCRs and ECCRs.

However, (1) in a stick transmission you're manually controlling the engine on a constant basis so you're more attuned to the system when something changes. (2) Sticks are a simpler system than automatics, less to break and less to repair. (3) With a stick, you need to actually know what you're doing otherwise you can't get out of the driveway. (4) Stick transmissions cost less. I think all four of these aspects are similar for MCCRs vs ECCRs.

Stick versus automatic is a personal preference, so it's probably the same with MCCR and ECCR. I drive a stick transmission and dive an MCCR.

Great analagy (spelling?)

I grew up with a stick and am sick of it, I now drive an automatic - dive an ECCR too.

Ricky2703 · 24th June 2008, 14:48

Quote: (Originally Posted by Twain)

Taking Matt's car comparison a bit too far, you could say MCCR vs ECCR is a bit like automatic vs stick transmissions in cars.

With both an automatic and a stick transmission you can monitor the system (tachometer). With both you can manually control if you need to (putting the lever in "1" instead of "drive"). Same thing for MCCRs and ECCRs.

However, (1) in a stick transmission you're manually controlling the engine on a constant basis so you're more attuned to the system when something changes. (2) Sticks are a simpler system than automatics, less to break and less to repair. (3) With a stick, you need to actually know what you're doing otherwise you can't get out of the driveway. (4) Stick transmissions cost less. I think all four of these aspects are similar for MCCRs vs ECCRs.

Stick versus automatic is a personal preference, so it's probably the same with MCCR and ECCR. I drive a stick transmission and dive an MCCR.

Aw S**t I have an auto Jeep and a manual (stick) VW Golf now i am realy confused, or do I need 1 unit with two heads.

Ricky

Pawel Szopinski · 24th June 2008, 15:25

Quote: (Originally Posted by Ricky2703)

Aw S**t I have an auto Jeep and a manual (stick) VW Golf now i am realy confused, or do I need 1 unit with two heads.

Ricky

Get APECS and fly it manually when you are bored.

jdicediver · 24th June 2008, 21:25

Quote: (Originally Posted by tecdivertraining)

Hi Ricky,
I just ordered a new shearwater APECS 2.7 aswell, Im also in the process of getting a new car for the wife and asked if BMW would take out all the electronics and airbags as she has not had a crash for years and does not need all those fancy ABS, aircon and stuff, Sorry if it sounds like a Piss take

but stick with the apecs if you want a manual ccr just press the manual add a few times and keep the ABS breaks,

Im sure I will get bashed for it, so bring it on You MCCR lovers.

Matt, why would I pay for all the excess baggage on an eCCR, when for a lot less I can dive the same unit manually, like you too do with an APECS.

Besides, no-one has died on a COPIS that I am aware of...

and...when APECS 3 comes out, I can buy one of those as well.

brockbr · 24th June 2008, 22:28

Quote: (Originally Posted by tecdivertraining)

Yes its personal,

In London rush hour for a week, driving with a "stick" and clutch I'm sure you could be quickly persuaded auto is the way to go. But sure a bimmble on a sunday morning on the open road and your "stick might be fun

(Continuing with the automatic vs. stick...)

...the auto would be great until the battery died while stopped for a picnic in the country (Bonaire, anyone?).

At least with a stick, I can push start it and continue as though nothing happened

pwl4476 · 24th June 2008, 22:39

I think that I'm along the same line as Matt. I have an APECS and fly it manually. The electronics are then simply a mechanism that can help in the event of an unforeseen problem. That's the way that I was taught and it suits my diving style. I could never just kick back and let the electronics do the work.

One question: What the hell is a "bimmble"?

Paul

Pawel Szopinski · 24th June 2008, 23:42

Quote: (Originally Posted by pwl4476)

One question: What the hell is a "bimmble"?

A dive or an activity without aim.

tecdivertraining · 25th June 2008, 02:32

Quote: (Originally Posted by jdicediver)

Besides, no-one has died on a COPIS that I am aware of...

Please...., what a silly thing to say, do you have any idea of ratio units sold, push depth and duration on copis units Vs Apecs. it's kinda like saying thiers not many died in a farrari but a few have in Porsche Boxters

jdicediver · 25th June 2008, 14:42

Quote: (Originally Posted by tecdivertraining)

Please...., what a silly thing to say, do you have any idea of ratio units sold, push depth and duration on copis units Vs Apecs. it's kinda like saying thiers not many died in a farrari but a few have in Porsche Boxters

Again...I rest my case...COPIS is like a Ferrari...yet I drive a Boxster. Someday I will fly an APECS, but for now...

The differences are quite obvious, <COPIS vs. APECS> push depth (without Modification on the COPIS) on the APECS greater, however duration is similar <barring deco>, yet still...you DO fly your APECS manually, just as you teach in the Mod 1, right???

APECS eCCR vs. COPIS mCCR is very similar to an autopilot, or IFR/VFR rating, not like stick/automatic transmission at all. Similar unit, different config, different purpose, different uses. The COPIS can be Modified for use deeper, agreed? maybe not the ultimate choice though.

No Matt, it was not a silly thing to say...simple fact...and a constant across the universe in the world of CCR diving...mCCR HAS HAD LESS FATALITIES...

Can you explain what the reason is using the complex factors of human nature instead of simple unit sold ratio? The numbers are NOT linear.

That...would be worthy of discussion.

tecdivertraining · 25th June 2008, 16:02

Quote: (Originally Posted by jdicediver)

Again...I rest my case...COPIS is like a Ferrari...yet I drive a Boxster. Someday I will fly an APECS, but for now...

I had them all,

Quote: (Originally Posted by jdicediver)

The differences are quite obvious, <COPIS vs. APECS> push depth (without Modification on the COPIS) on the APECS greater, however duration is similar <barring deco>, yet still...you DO fly your APECS manually, just as you teach in the Mod 1, right???

No, I dive it as an ECCR 90% of the time, and advise all students to have good manual motor skill and stay in tune with their unit, their quite some differences in diving a manual to an ECCR

Quote: (Originally Posted by jdicediver)

APECS eCCR vs. COPIS mCCR is very similar to an autopilot, or IFR/VFR rating, not like stick/automatic transmission at all. Similar unit, different config, different purpose, different uses. The COPIS can be Modified for use deeper, agreed? maybe not the ultimate choice though.

I did not say it was, but what your saying is take a Ford escort and max power it, not the same as a Porsche…

[quote=jdicediver;194283]No Matt, it was not a silly thing to say...simple fact...and a constant across the universe in the world of CCR diving...mCCR HAS HAD LESS FATALITIES...

I think it was, My opinion.

Quote: (Originally Posted by jdicediver)

Can you explain what the reason is using the complex factors of human nature instead of simple unit sold ratio? The numbers are NOT linear.

That...would be worthy of discussion.

Nope because I cannot be that bothered to get into a bitch fight with you.

24th June 2008, 02:43	#21 (permalink)
Dsix36 Going Down? Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Deerfield Beach, Florida Posts: 1,154	Re: COPIS or APECS Quote: (Originally Posted by Twain) Taking Matt's car comparison a bit too far, you could say MCCR vs ECCR is a bit like automatic vs stick transmissions in cars. With both an automatic and a stick transmission you can monitor the system (tachometer). With both you can manually control if you need to (putting the lever in "1" instead of "drive"). Same thing for MCCRs and ECCRs. However, (1) in a stick transmission you're manually controlling the engine on a constant basis so you're more attuned to the system when something changes. (2) Sticks are a simpler system than automatics, less to break and less to repair. (3) With a stick, you need to actually know what you're doing otherwise you can't get out of the driveway. (4) Stick transmissions cost less. I think all four of these aspects are similar for MCCRs vs ECCRs. Stick versus automatic is a personal preference, so it's probably the same with MCCR and ECCR. I drive a stick transmission and dive an MCCR. Great analagy (spelling?) I grew up with a stick and am sick of it, I now drive an automatic - dive an ECCR too. __________________ THE MORE THAT I LEARN, THE MORE THAT I STILL NEED TO LEARN!!!!!!
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24th June 2008, 14:48	#22 (permalink)
Ricky2703 Ricky Cantley Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: East London Posts: 25	Re: COPIS or APECS Quote: (Originally Posted by Twain) Taking Matt's car comparison a bit too far, you could say MCCR vs ECCR is a bit like automatic vs stick transmissions in cars. With both an automatic and a stick transmission you can monitor the system (tachometer). With both you can manually control if you need to (putting the lever in "1" instead of "drive"). Same thing for MCCRs and ECCRs. However, (1) in a stick transmission you're manually controlling the engine on a constant basis so you're more attuned to the system when something changes. (2) Sticks are a simpler system than automatics, less to break and less to repair. (3) With a stick, you need to actually know what you're doing otherwise you can't get out of the driveway. (4) Stick transmissions cost less. I think all four of these aspects are similar for MCCRs vs ECCRs. Stick versus automatic is a personal preference, so it's probably the same with MCCR and ECCR. I drive a stick transmission and dive an MCCR. Aw S**t I have an auto Jeep and a manual (stick) VW Golf now i am realy confused, or do I need 1 unit with two heads. Ricky
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24th June 2008, 15:25	#23 (permalink)
Pawel Szopinski RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: London, UK Posts: 136	Re: COPIS or APECS Quote: (Originally Posted by Ricky2703) Aw S*t I have an auto Jeep and a manual (stick) VW Golf now i am realy confused, or do I need 1 unit with two heads. Ricky Get APECS and fly it manually when you are bored. __________________ "It's better to live one hour as a tiger than a whole lifetime as a worm." The Cat*
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24th June 2008, 21:25	#24 (permalink)
jdicediver John Harcus Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Calgary, Alberta Posts: 276	Re: COPIS or APECS Quote: (Originally Posted by tecdivertraining) Hi Ricky, I just ordered a new shearwater APECS 2.7 aswell, Im also in the process of getting a new car for the wife and asked if BMW would take out all the electronics and airbags as she has not had a crash for years and does not need all those fancy ABS, aircon and stuff, Sorry if it sounds like a Piss take but stick with the apecs if you want a manual ccr just press the manual add a few times and keep the ABS breaks, Im sure I will get bashed for it, so bring it on You MCCR lovers. Matt, why would I pay for all the excess baggage on an eCCR, when for a lot less I can dive the same unit manually, like you too do with an APECS. Besides, no-one has died on a COPIS that I am aware of... and...when APECS 3 comes out, I can buy one of those as well. __________________ Regards; "Some people shouldn't dive...others shouldn't even get wet".
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24th June 2008, 22:28	#25 (permalink)
brockbr Train Wrecked ;) Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Alabaster, AL Posts: 321	Re: COPIS or APECS Quote: (Originally Posted by tecdivertraining) Yes its personal, In London rush hour for a week, driving with a "stick" and clutch I'm sure you could be quickly persuaded auto is the way to go. But sure a bimmble on a sunday morning on the open road and your "stick might be fun (Continuing with the automatic vs. stick...) ...the auto would be great until the battery died while stopped for a picnic in the country (Bonaire, anyone?). At least with a stick, I can push start it and continue as though nothing happened __________________ iDeco - iPhone Decompression Planning - FREE!!! iPhoneDeco.com
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24th June 2008, 22:39	#26 (permalink)
pwl4476 RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Olathe, KS Posts: 113	Re: COPIS or APECS I think that I'm along the same line as Matt. I have an APECS and fly it manually. The electronics are then simply a mechanism that can help in the event of an unforeseen problem. That's the way that I was taught and it suits my diving style. I could never just kick back and let the electronics do the work. One question: What the hell is a "bimmble"? Paul
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24th June 2008, 23:42	#27 (permalink)
Pawel Szopinski RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: London, UK Posts: 136	Re: COPIS or APECS Quote: (Originally Posted by pwl4476) One question: What the hell is a "bimmble"? A dive or an activity without aim. __________________ "It's better to live one hour as a tiger than a whole lifetime as a worm." The Cat Last edited by Pawel Szopinski : 25th June 2008 at 03:16.
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25th June 2008, 02:32	#28 (permalink)
tecdivertraining EXPLORER Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Ouroboros Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Dolphin Join Date: May 2005 Location: Phuket, Thailand Posts: 531	Re: COPIS or APECS Quote: (Originally Posted by jdicediver) Besides, no-one has died on a COPIS that I am aware of... Please...., what a silly thing to say, do you have any idea of ratio units sold, push depth and duration on copis units Vs Apecs. it's kinda like saying thiers not many died in a farrari but a few have in Porsche Boxters __________________ Mathew Partridge Technical Director Pro-Tech Dive College www.protechdivers.com www.tech-ccr.com
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25th June 2008, 14:42	#29 (permalink)
jdicediver John Harcus Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Calgary, Alberta Posts: 276	Re: COPIS or APECS Quote: (Originally Posted by tecdivertraining) Please...., what a silly thing to say, do you have any idea of ratio units sold, push depth and duration on copis units Vs Apecs. it's kinda like saying thiers not many died in a farrari but a few have in Porsche Boxters Again...I rest my case...COPIS is like a Ferrari...yet I drive a Boxster. Someday I will fly an APECS, but for now... The differences are quite obvious, <COPIS vs. APECS> push depth (without Modification on the COPIS) on the APECS greater, however duration is similar <barring deco>, yet still...you DO fly your APECS manually, just as you teach in the Mod 1, right??? APECS eCCR vs. COPIS mCCR is very similar to an autopilot, or IFR/VFR rating, not like stick/automatic transmission at all. Similar unit, different config, different purpose, different uses. The COPIS can be Modified for use deeper, agreed? maybe not the ultimate choice though. No Matt, it was not a silly thing to say...simple fact...and a constant across the universe in the world of CCR diving...mCCR HAS HAD LESS FATALITIES... Can you explain what the reason is using the complex factors of human nature instead of simple unit sold ratio? The numbers are NOT linear. That...would be worthy of discussion. __________________ Regards; "Some people shouldn't dive...others shouldn't even get wet". Last edited by jdicediver : 25th June 2008 at 14:46.
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25th June 2008, 16:02	#30 (permalink)
tecdivertraining EXPLORER Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Ouroboros Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Dolphin Join Date: May 2005 Location: Phuket, Thailand Posts: 531	Re: COPIS or APECS Quote: (Originally Posted by jdicediver) Again...I rest my case...COPIS is like a Ferrari...yet I drive a Boxster. Someday I will fly an APECS, but for now... I had them all, Quote: (Originally Posted by jdicediver) The differences are quite obvious, <COPIS vs. APECS> push depth (without Modification on the COPIS) on the APECS greater, however duration is similar <barring deco>, yet still...you DO fly your APECS manually, just as you teach in the Mod 1, right??? No, I dive it as an ECCR 90% of the time, and advise all students to have good manual motor skill and stay in tune with their unit, their quite some differences in diving a manual to an ECCR Quote: (Originally Posted by jdicediver) APECS eCCR vs. COPIS mCCR is very similar to an autopilot, or IFR/VFR rating, not like stick/automatic transmission at all. Similar unit, different config, different purpose, different uses. The COPIS can be Modified for use deeper, agreed? maybe not the ultimate choice though. I did not say it was, but what your saying is take a Ford escort and max power it, not the same as a Porsche… [quote=jdicediver;194283]No Matt, it was not a silly thing to say...simple fact...and a constant across the universe in the world of CCR diving...mCCR HAS HAD LESS FATALITIES... I think it was, My opinion. Quote: (Originally Posted by jdicediver) Can you explain what the reason is using the complex factors of human nature instead of simple unit sold ratio? The numbers are NOT linear. That...would be worthy of discussion. Nope because I cannot be that bothered to get into a bitch fight with you. __________________ Mathew Partridge Technical Director Pro-Tech Dive College www.protechdivers.com www.tech-ccr.com
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