ISC posts test data

***caveseeker7*** · 29th March 2008, 10:03

Quote: (Originally Posted by lancsman)

With 'all' this test data now becominh available is it posible to put it in one place, even if it is only links, for people to comare easily, with out having to do lots of searches.

Also could it be a place just for the data and not for debate so we don't have to troll through list of post to find it. We could have a seperate place to debate it.

thanks

mark

Good idea, Mark, your wish is my command.

I just finished searching through my links to find the test stuff I know about.

The Rebreather Testing Data List is a sticky in the Rebreather Design and Operations Forum.

If you have links to additional or new testing data please contact me or any moderator and we will add the link to this list.

AD_ward9 · 29th March 2008, 10:06

Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike)

Alex when someone pays to have independant tests done how does it work? Are the tests normally done with the sponsor present and involved or is the tests done truly independantly and the results just given to the sponsor?

Very observant.

Yes, "independent tests" are done with the sponsor present, and when the sponsor does not like the result, they ask the tester to tweak the unit and try again. As it is the sponsor who is paying the bill, I have never seen an independent test house decline a reasonable suggestion, but also not seen any who would produce a deliberately dishonest result. However, incompetent results are ten a penny. For ESD testing etc, it is done so often that the setup is standardised. For something like EN14143 testing, there are a lot of pitfalls for the unwary.

All this stuff about "independent testing" is a lot of BS. What matters is "proper and competent testing" that is audited, with full disclosure of the conditions so that other people can reproduce it. We should encourage the publication of test results, whether it is done in house, or outside. In fact, in house is better in our biased opinion, because it means the manufacturer can test, modify and test again, to improve the product scientifically, to deliver the best value to the diver. In house results also require a greater degree of disclosure to be believed, which is also a good thing.

Alex

jkaterenchuk · 29th March 2008, 12:38

Quote: (Originally Posted by Steve)

It is possible but I'd guess that they are annoyed that someone basically copied their product. That is pretty poor form.

Yes, Yes I realise there are differences between the Meg and the HH but blind Freddy can see what happened and these 2 units are the most similar or any 2 on the market.

Great to see more test data out there. Well done to all concerened

You are probably right. However what happened to the "We lead others follow" motto? Also if I am not mistaken that motto was used by someone else earlier......

An old saying comes to mind....Don't throw stones when you live in a glass house.

From my perspective the marketing slant on the presentation of the test information should be ignored.

John

netmage · 29th March 2008, 13:17

Quote: (Originally Posted by caveseeker7)

Just as a little reminder, there are what, over 300 Megs out there? ISC has been selling their rebreather without bothering to test or publish the results for a long time. The original Smithers electronics, the original Shearwater electronics, and all APECS versions till now went untested to their customers ...

... something to keep in mind.

700+ as of end of January... I have #247, and it's a few years old....

AD_ward9 · 29th March 2008, 13:26

Quote: (Originally Posted by netmage)

700+ as of end of January... I have #247, and it's a few years old....

Come on, pull the other one.

Alex

**wedivebc** · 29th March 2008, 13:54

Quote: (Originally Posted by caveseeker7)

As for the scrubbers, I'm disappointed they tested WOB with the PRISM scrubber, but not its duration. Obviously they fit, and they're still in production

The prism scrubber that Leon has on hand is modified to fit the meg. The stock prism scubber does not fit. Any comparative tests would be suspect due to the modifications ISC made.

***caveseeker7*** · 29th March 2008, 14:24

Quote: (Originally Posted by wedivebc)

The prism scrubber that Leon has on hand is modified to fit the meg. The stock prism scubber does not fit. Any comparative tests would be suspect due to the modifications ISC made.

Thanks for clearing that up ... though it doesn't explain the WOB inclusion.
Thought one of the guys in Oz used his old PRISM scrubber in his Meg, too.

snicks · 29th March 2008, 19:52

Quote: (Originally Posted by netmage)

700+ as of end of January... I have #247, and it's a few years old....

#501 @10.2.08

mempilot · 29th March 2008, 19:54

I'm not so sure that serial numbers are sequentially sold from ISC.

Hyper-limits · 29th March 2008, 20:05

Quote: (Originally Posted by mempilot)

I'm not so sure that serial numbers are sequentially sold from ISC.

I was told that there are not. I got #537 in July last year. It would be interesting to find the exact number. Most be around 500 to 600 Meg out there.

29th March 2008, 10:03	#101 (permalink)
*caveseeker7* Who loves ya, baby Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Too far from Neverland Posts: 5,435	Re: Good idea ! Quote: (Originally Posted by lancsman) With 'all' this test data now becominh available is it posible to put it in one place, even if it is only links, for people to comare easily, with out having to do lots of searches. Also could it be a place just for the data and not for debate so we don't have to troll through list of post to find it. We could have a seperate place to debate it. thanks mark Good idea, Mark, your wish is my command. I just finished searching through my links to find the test stuff I know about. The Rebreather Testing Data List is a sticky in the Rebreather Design and Operations Forum. If you have links to additional or new testing data please contact me or any moderator and we will add the link to this list. __________________ Cheers Stefan "Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.'!"
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29th March 2008, 10:06	#102 (permalink)
AD_ward9 So much more to learn Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Scotland Posts: 1,732	Re: ISC posts test data Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike) Alex when someone pays to have independant tests done how does it work? Are the tests normally done with the sponsor present and involved or is the tests done truly independantly and the results just given to the sponsor? Very observant. Yes, "independent tests" are done with the sponsor present, and when the sponsor does not like the result, they ask the tester to tweak the unit and try again. As it is the sponsor who is paying the bill, I have never seen an independent test house decline a reasonable suggestion, but also not seen any who would produce a deliberately dishonest result. However, incompetent results are ten a penny. For ESD testing etc, it is done so often that the setup is standardised. For something like EN14143 testing, there are a lot of pitfalls for the unwary. All this stuff about "independent testing" is a lot of BS. What matters is "proper and competent testing" that is audited, with full disclosure of the conditions so that other people can reproduce it. We should encourage the publication of test results, whether it is done in house, or outside. In fact, in house is better in our biased opinion, because it means the manufacturer can test, modify and test again, to improve the product scientifically, to deliver the best value to the diver. In house results also require a greater degree of disclosure to be believed, which is also a good thing. Alex Last edited by AD_ward9 : 29th March 2008 at 10:16.
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29th March 2008, 12:38	#103 (permalink)
jkaterenchuk . Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Megalodon Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2006 Location: Lititz, PA Posts: 748	Re: ISC posts test data Quote: (Originally Posted by Steve) It is possible but I'd guess that they are annoyed that someone basically copied their product. That is pretty poor form. Yes, Yes I realise there are differences between the Meg and the HH but blind Freddy can see what happened and these 2 units are the most similar or any 2 on the market. Great to see more test data out there. Well done to all concerened You are probably right. However what happened to the "We lead others follow" motto? Also if I am not mistaken that motto was used by someone else earlier...... An old saying comes to mind....Don't throw stones when you live in a glass house. From my perspective the marketing slant on the presentation of the test information should be ignored. John Last edited by jkaterenchuk : 29th March 2008 at 13:27.
(Online)

29th March 2008, 13:17	#104 (permalink)
netmage Hello Kitty...... Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coconut Creek, FL Posts: 440	Re: ISC posts test data Quote: (Originally Posted by caveseeker7) Just as a little reminder, there are what, over 300 Megs out there? ISC has been selling their rebreather without bothering to test or publish the results for a long time. The original Smithers electronics, the original Shearwater electronics, and all APECS versions till now went untested to their customers ... ... something to keep in mind. 700+ as of end of January... I have #247, and it's a few years old....
(Online)

29th March 2008, 13:26	#105 (permalink)
AD_ward9 So much more to learn Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Scotland Posts: 1,732	Re: ISC posts test data Quote: (Originally Posted by netmage) 700+ as of end of January... I have #247, and it's a few years old.... Come on, pull the other one. Alex
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29th March 2008, 13:54	#106 (permalink)
wedivebc FIGJAM Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Vancouver Island BC Canada Posts: 1,411	Re: ISC posts test data Quote: (Originally Posted by caveseeker7) As for the scrubbers, I'm disappointed they tested WOB with the PRISM scrubber, but not its duration. Obviously they fit, and they're still in production The prism scrubber that Leon has on hand is modified to fit the meg. The stock prism scubber does not fit. Any comparative tests would be suspect due to the modifications ISC made. __________________ Cheers, Dave.... Man is the only animal burdened with the knowledge he will eventually die
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29th March 2008, 14:24	#107 (permalink)
*caveseeker7* Who loves ya, baby Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Too far from Neverland Posts: 5,435	Re: ISC posts test data Quote: (Originally Posted by wedivebc) The prism scrubber that Leon has on hand is modified to fit the meg. The stock prism scubber does not fit. Any comparative tests would be suspect due to the modifications ISC made. Thanks for clearing that up ... though it doesn't explain the WOB inclusion. Thought one of the guys in Oz used his old PRISM scrubber in his Meg, too. __________________ Cheers Stefan "Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.'!"
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29th March 2008, 19:52	#108 (permalink)
snicks New Member Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Germany Posts: 33	Re: ISC posts test data Quote: (Originally Posted by netmage) 700+ as of end of January... I have #247, and it's a few years old.... #501 @10.2.08 __________________ Weltmacht mit drei Buchstaben? ICH!
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29th March 2008, 19:54	#109 (permalink)
mempilot What is this..terrafirma? Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Megalodon Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Ft. Lauderdale Posts: 1,269	Re: ISC posts test data I'm not so sure that serial numbers are sequentially sold from ISC. __________________ MEM "Da Pilot" Black holes are where God divided by zero. "If at first you don't succeed, don't dive silent." "Would you mind not shooting at the thermo-nuclear weapons." ~ Vic Deakins "Donkey's kill more people annually than plane crashes."
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29th March 2008, 20:05	#110 (permalink)
Hyper-limits Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Victoria BC Canada Posts: 128	Re: ISC posts test data Quote: (Originally Posted by mempilot) I'm not so sure that serial numbers are sequentially sold from ISC. I was told that there are not. I got #537 in July last year. It would be interesting to find the exact number. Most be around 500 to 600 Meg out there. __________________ "The oldest and strongest emotion of mankind is fear. And the oldest and strongest kind of fear is fear of the unknown" H.P. Lovecraft
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