Apeks DS 4 for Megs?

Explorer · 10th October 2005, 17:58

Do any of the meg owners use the Apeks DS-4's for their first stages? Pros or cons and why please?

Ken · 10th October 2005, 20:03

Quote: (Originally Posted by Explorer)

Do any of the meg owners use the Apeks DS-4's for their first stages? Pros or cons and why please?

I'm looking at my Classic Kiss with Apeks and my Meg with Poseidon regs. I don't see any appreciable difference. The hose routing is essentially the same and you would save a buck or two using the DS-4's. On the dil. side of the Meg. I have 3 LP/1 HP elbow which is a bit of a pain. Ken

julie · 10th October 2005, 21:00

Hi there

People seem to be using either Posiden's or scubapro mk2.
But to be honest there is no reason why you could not use the Apex ds4,
Personally I like the Mk2 as there is very little inside when it comes to servicing regs in the field ! !

And I believe even I could cope >>>>>

Julie

Ken · 10th October 2005, 21:44

Quote: (Originally Posted by julie)

Hi there

People seem to be using either Posiden's or scubapro mk2.
But to be honest there is no reason why you could not use the Apex ds4,
Personally I like the Mk2 as there is very little inside when it comes to servicing regs in the field ! !

And I believe even I could cope >>>>>

Julie

I remember seeing the MK's on a Meg. I think optimally regs which have at least 2 HP ports + 2 LP's on each side assist in setting up the myriad of Meg hoses. I have to admit I spent more time fiddling with the hoses set-up than any previous piece of kit.

However, that's a good thing because it is a 'custom rebreather'.

megdiver12 · 10th October 2005, 23:47

I dive the meg whit apexs regs. and love them. I have seen scubs pro. on the meg to and have drove whit divers uesding them and thay work find

Simon A · 11th October 2005, 19:43

Just one point on using a DS4 on the meg. Looking at the specs of the Apeks 1st stages, Id recomend using a US4 on the O2 side, this is because the DS system actualy over-balances the system, this means that as you dive deeper the IP will rise, which may upset the O2 solenoid at depth. (if you've already got the DS4's then it only takes 30 secs with a 42mm pin spanner to turn it into a US4)
HTH
Simon A

jitka · 11th October 2005, 21:37

Hi,

I dive my Meg with Apeks DS4s but I also used the SP MK2 as my first regs. The reason for switch was my familiarity with the Apeks and being able to service them myself plus I believe the diaphragm is a better reg for dirty environment I often find myself in...
I lower the IP to no more than 130 and I use OPV on both regs - not just the O2. With the manual dil shut-off you need one on your dil side as well! That is with my Meg experience.

Dive Safe,

Jitka

Quote: (Originally Posted by Explorer)

Do any of the meg owners use the Apeks DS-4's for their first stages? Pros or cons and why please?

Fred Evans · 12th October 2005, 03:14

I would think any currently available 1st stage will do given the limited demands on them compared to an OC reg at depth.

The DS4 come as standard on the KISS (O2 side is modified to no-compensating due to the constant mass flow requirement) and they worked fine for me for almost 3 years and they have a good track record in general.

There is one small limitation with the DS4 which may or may not be an issue depending on your configuration which is that it has an HP port on only one side, but this should not be an issue on the Meg. It was a minor hassle for my upright tank confirmation on the KISS and they are limited to 10-12 bar IP (again only an issue for the KISS).

I use Oceanic CDX 1st stages on my Meg and they work fine and do not require the use of a swivel if you just need two LP feeds and one HP.

Also considered the Apeks FST’s which I picked up at a great price but these I considered too heavy given the trim issues of most rebreathers so I use those for deep bailout OC regs, and quite frankly they are overkill as are Poseidons and other high end regs …. unless you have a specific preference for them as some people do.
Basically its hard to go wrong, the main criteria I would suggest is hose routing and availability of spares/servicing backup. Nothing should struggle with the flow rates or IP requirements of the Meg (unless you are feeding OC bailout off them at significant depths).

Regards, Fred

Yann A. · 12th October 2005, 03:36

Quote: (Originally Posted by Simon A)

Just one point on using a DS4 on the meg. Looking at the specs of the Apeks 1st stages, Id recomend using a US4 on the O2 side, this is because the DS system actualy over-balances the system, this means that as you dive deeper the IP will rise, which may upset the O2 solenoid at depth. (if you've already got the DS4's then it only takes 30 secs with a 42mm pin spanner to turn it into a US4)
HTH
Simon A

Hi Simon,

Could you elaborate on that? The Meg is delivered with MK2 first stages but many users have been using non-modified Poseidon on both sides.
I personally use DST for better hose routing and because I had them. On a IP stand point, what's the difference in using any non-modified balanced 1st stage?
As you dive deeper, the IP will increase keeping the same differential as at the surface so why should this affect the solenoid?
If you twist your reg to become a fixed IP one, then the IP will decrease with depth thus affecting the solenoid no?

Rgs,

Yann.

jhaaja · 12th October 2005, 13:27

Quote: (Originally Posted by Yann A.)

Hi Simon,

Could you elaborate on that? The Meg is delivered with MK2 first stages but many users have been using non-modified Poseidon on both sides.
I personally use DST for better hose routing and because I had them. On a IP stand point, what's the difference in using any non-modified balanced 1st stage?
As you dive deeper, the IP will increase keeping the same differential as at the surface so why should this affect the solenoid?
If you twist your reg to become a fixed IP one, then the IP will decrease with depth thus affecting the solenoid no?

Rgs,

Yann.

This issue has been discussed earlier. I think Simon means that the IP will increase more at depth with the dry seal fitted than without it. So the hose pressure will be higher than just the IP + the ambient pressure. That means that the pressure difference is bigger at depth than on the surface. Hope this makes any sense...

JH
Finland

10th October 2005, 17:58	#1 (permalink)
Explorer I will teach you a..... Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 784	Do any of the meg owners use the Apeks DS-4's for their first stages? Pros or cons and why please? __________________ KONA COFFEE
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10th October 2005, 20:03	#2 (permalink)
Ken Team Torrent Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Megalodon Classic Kiss Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: New York City Posts: 331	Quote: (Originally Posted by Explorer) Do any of the meg owners use the Apeks DS-4's for their first stages? Pros or cons and why please? I'm looking at my Classic Kiss with Apeks and my Meg with Poseidon regs. I don't see any appreciable difference. The hose routing is essentially the same and you would save a buck or two using the DS-4's. On the dil. side of the Meg. I have 3 LP/1 HP elbow which is a bit of a pain. Ken
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10th October 2005, 21:00	#3 (permalink)
julie Mega Tiggerlodon Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Dolphin Join Date: May 2005 Location: hoddesdon, Herts,UK Posts: 76	Hi there People seem to be using either Posiden's or scubapro mk2. But to be honest there is no reason why you could not use the Apex ds4, Personally I like the Mk2 as there is very little inside when it comes to servicing regs in the field ! ! And I believe even I could cope >>>>> Julie __________________ Bouncin's what TIGGERS do best !
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10th October 2005, 21:44	#4 (permalink)
Ken Team Torrent Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Megalodon Classic Kiss Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: New York City Posts: 331	Quote: (Originally Posted by julie) Hi there People seem to be using either Posiden's or scubapro mk2. But to be honest there is no reason why you could not use the Apex ds4, Personally I like the Mk2 as there is very little inside when it comes to servicing regs in the field ! ! And I believe even I could cope >>>>> Julie I remember seeing the MK's on a Meg. I think optimally regs which have at least 2 HP ports + 2 LP's on each side assist in setting up the myriad of Meg hoses. I have to admit I spent more time fiddling with the hoses set-up than any previous piece of kit. However, that's a good thing because it is a 'custom rebreather'.
(Offline)

10th October 2005, 23:47	#5 (permalink)
megdiver12 New Member Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Classic Kiss Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: minnesota Posts: 71	I dive the meg whit apexs regs. and love them. I have seen scubs pro. on the meg to and have drove whit divers uesding them and thay work find
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11th October 2005, 19:43	#6 (permalink)
Simon A Escapee from DIY Rebreather's Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Reading, UK Posts: 345	Just one point on using a DS4 on the meg. Looking at the specs of the Apeks 1st stages, Id recomend using a US4 on the O2 side, this is because the DS system actualy over-balances the system, this means that as you dive deeper the IP will rise, which may upset the O2 solenoid at depth. (if you've already got the DS4's then it only takes 30 secs with a 42mm pin spanner to turn it into a US4) HTH Simon A
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11th October 2005, 21:37	#7 (permalink)
jitka Cave Meg Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2005 Location: Florida Posts: 37	Hi, I dive my Meg with Apeks DS4s but I also used the SP MK2 as my first regs. The reason for switch was my familiarity with the Apeks and being able to service them myself plus I believe the diaphragm is a better reg for dirty environment I often find myself in... I lower the IP to no more than 130 and I use OPV on both regs - not just the O2. With the manual dil shut-off you need one on your dil side as well! That is with my Meg experience. Dive Safe, Jitka Quote: (Originally Posted by Explorer) Do any of the meg owners use the Apeks DS-4's for their first stages? Pros or cons and why please?
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12th October 2005, 03:14	#8 (permalink)
Fred Evans Old Bull Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2005 Location: Indonesia, Jakarta Posts: 51	Meg 1st stages I would think any currently available 1st stage will do given the limited demands on them compared to an OC reg at depth. The DS4 come as standard on the KISS (O2 side is modified to no-compensating due to the constant mass flow requirement) and they worked fine for me for almost 3 years and they have a good track record in general. There is one small limitation with the DS4 which may or may not be an issue depending on your configuration which is that it has an HP port on only one side, but this should not be an issue on the Meg. It was a minor hassle for my upright tank confirmation on the KISS and they are limited to 10-12 bar IP (again only an issue for the KISS). I use Oceanic CDX 1st stages on my Meg and they work fine and do not require the use of a swivel if you just need two LP feeds and one HP. Also considered the Apeks FST’s which I picked up at a great price but these I considered too heavy given the trim issues of most rebreathers so I use those for deep bailout OC regs, and quite frankly they are overkill as are Poseidons and other high end regs …. unless you have a specific preference for them as some people do. Basically its hard to go wrong, the main criteria I would suggest is hose routing and availability of spares/servicing backup. Nothing should struggle with the flow rates or IP requirements of the Meg (unless you are feeding OC bailout off them at significant depths). Regards, Fred
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12th October 2005, 03:36	#9 (permalink)
Yann A. New Member Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: France Posts: 55	Quote: (Originally Posted by Simon A) Just one point on using a DS4 on the meg. Looking at the specs of the Apeks 1st stages, Id recomend using a US4 on the O2 side, this is because the DS system actualy over-balances the system, this means that as you dive deeper the IP will rise, which may upset the O2 solenoid at depth. (if you've already got the DS4's then it only takes 30 secs with a 42mm pin spanner to turn it into a US4) HTH Simon A Hi Simon, Could you elaborate on that? The Meg is delivered with MK2 first stages but many users have been using non-modified Poseidon on both sides. I personally use DST for better hose routing and because I had them. On a IP stand point, what's the difference in using any non-modified balanced 1st stage? As you dive deeper, the IP will increase keeping the same differential as at the surface so why should this affect the solenoid? If you twist your reg to become a fixed IP one, then the IP will decrease with depth thus affecting the solenoid no? Rgs, Yann.
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12th October 2005, 13:27	#10 (permalink)
jhaaja Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 885	Quote: (Originally Posted by Yann A.) Hi Simon, Could you elaborate on that? The Meg is delivered with MK2 first stages but many users have been using non-modified Poseidon on both sides. I personally use DST for better hose routing and because I had them. On a IP stand point, what's the difference in using any non-modified balanced 1st stage? As you dive deeper, the IP will increase keeping the same differential as at the surface so why should this affect the solenoid? If you twist your reg to become a fixed IP one, then the IP will decrease with depth thus affecting the solenoid no? Rgs, Yann. This issue has been discussed earlier. I think Simon means that the IP will increase more at depth with the dry seal fitted than without it. So the hose pressure will be higher than just the IP + the ambient pressure. That means that the pressure difference is bigger at depth than on the surface. Hope this makes any sense... JH Finland
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