Does anyone do a Meg trimix manual?

Abbo · 26th September 2007, 03:18

Prompted by the WTB - Meg diver student kit thread...
http://www.rebreatherworld.com/newre...ote=1&p=137861
...I went and got a copy of the ANDI manual. It's still a great manual, and it remains peerless (sorry, IANTD, that's not a manual and I want my money back!). It has been updated somewhat since I last read it during training (I notice it says, unequivocably, that the Apecs 3.0 will be out in 2007...It also warns upfront that there is a software problem with the old solenoid). There were at least 3 points in the manual where it says "your instructor will show you how to do x" - one was where it didn't show you how to calibrate the unit and another was where it does not tell you how to leak test the carriage assembly. I can see an argument for preventing self-teaching, but I still found this a little odd. According to the text, it is now high time I took the solenoid apart and cleaned it, but the manual only mentions this in passing: I would have liked a little guidance on how to take apart such a critical part of my life support system.

Obviously, this is a manual for air diluent and NDLs. Is there a Meg manual for trimix and beyond? Shouldn't there be? Does anyone have any plans for one? It would be nice if there were a manual that clearly explained how to take the solenoid apart, how to make batteries, how to rewire the battery compartment to allow off-the-shelf batteries, how to do field repairs of common problems...It would be nice if there were an owner's manual of the kind of things that you don't need to know till you need to know them in a hurry.

kieranu · 26th September 2007, 03:24

Too true - I've done 50 hours on my solenoid and I got the unit second-hand so who knows how many hours it did before that without being rebuilt

**Steve** · 26th September 2007, 03:58

Hi Mate,

All of the things you mentioned are covered in a Meg Technicians course.

Any Trimix skills are covered in a course, I for one don't hand out my materials to anyone that hasn't done a course with me.

tibby · 26th September 2007, 04:00

I have just finished reading the ANDI Meg manual the second time and I agree with Abbo. I'm a nobody when it comes to Rebreather expertise but as a user I would really like to see an ISC Meg manual rather than a third party's and it should cover all capabilities of the unit including trimix (separate chapter, etc). I wonder if that's on anyone's radar. I also wonder what manual is used for COPIS units (not my case but...) because there's no mention of it in the ANDI book. I don't think third-party outsourcing of user manuals is good business practice in the first place due to much opportunity for loss/skew of information. If training is outsourced then it should include and/or reference the manufacturer's user manual.
Tibby

kieranu · 26th September 2007, 04:10

Steve does make a fair point - technician training to a level where you can either work on your own unit or your own and other is available through ISC. As far as I know the ANDI manual predates the existence of COPIS.

Abbo · 26th September 2007, 04:26

I'm not sure Steve does have a point. If every 50 hours I have to pull apart the solenoid then I, as an owner, need to know how to do it. If every 30 hours I am going to have to change batteries then I need to be able to do it myself, but no manual advises you on that. Those batteries are a pain to get hold of and expensive to freight, so I need to know how to change the wiring or make my own batteries. I have had help with that, which was lucky, but a lot of owners are in locations where there is nobody to help out. It seems very wrong that every owner should be faced with a choice of taking a technician's course in the US or being unable to dive his unit for a significant part of the year while it's back at the factory getting basic work done on it. These days, you get a War & Peace-sized manual with a toaster oven, and you don't trust your life to a toaster oven. ISC need to get to work on a manual.

kieranu · 26th September 2007, 04:41

Quote: (Originally Posted by Abbo)

If every 30 hours I am going to have to change batteries then I need to be able to do it myself, but no manual advises you on that. Those batteries are a pain to get hold of and expensive to freight, so I need to know how to change the wiring or make my own batteries.

I was under the impression that the ANDI manual did tell you how to make both the AA and the lithium C battery packs. The battery packs that last 30 hours or so are made up from normal AAs so should be pretty easy to get hold of - sadly I can't read more than about 10 characters in kanji so doing a google for me is pretty pointless, but I imagine in Tokyo it shouldn't be too hard to get a hold of the lithiums that last considerably longer and either make the battery packs up yourself or take them and an existing battery pack into Akihabara Denki Gai (if you can't get the cells themselves there) and get them made up for you.

As for the solenoid, they are recommended to service every 50 hours but they could fail earlier or later or never. Most manufacturers seem to recommend a full service being done every 12 months / 50 hours / 100 hours. I don't think ISC is the exception here. I'm going to send mine for a service in the next few weeks and get a general service, have the solenoid replaced and software upgraded at the same time.

Lancer4545 · 26th September 2007, 04:49

I have been a repair technician for 30 years and have worked on engines as small as your thumb to engines that are 7 storys high, along with all the ancillary equipment that goes with them.

My point is, I have seen my fair share of mistakes made by people who should know how to carry out repairs. Not to mention even more by people who aren't qualified. I know there are a lot of handy people out there who can put their hand to being able to repair just about anything. Usually things which if they fail will not seriously harm or kill them.

My personal opinion is, leave a lot of the real tricky stuff to the professionals who do it day after day and know them intimately. I for one sent my Meg head to ISC as soon as I got it and had them upgrade the software and overhaul it. Whilst it was there they made a few modifications I never even knew about and I am sure neither did the rest of us.

If you're comfortable servicing bits and pieces of your dive gear then fine but somewhere along the way the guys who are doing their own servicing have been shown what to do by someone who has had the training and has spent many years in the field.

At some point it's always best to send it to the manufacturer and have it serviced, tested and calibrated........

Lance

tecdivertraining · 26th September 2007, 05:34

Quote: (Originally Posted by Abbo)

Prompted by the WTB - Meg diver student kit thread...
http://www.rebreatherworld.com/newre...ote=1&p=137861
...I went and got a copy of the ANDI manual. It's still a great manual, and it remains peerless (sorry, IANTD, that's not a manual and I want my money back!). It has been updated somewhat since I last read it during training (I notice it says, unequivocably, that the Apecs 3.0 will be out in 2007...It also warns upfront that there is a software problem with the old solenoid). There were at least 3 points in the manual where it says "your instructor will show you how to do x" - one was where it didn't show you how to calibrate the unit and another was where it does not tell you how to leak test the carriage assembly. I can see an argument for preventing self-teaching, but I still found this a little odd. According to the text, it is now high time I took the solenoid apart and cleaned it, but the manual only mentions this in passing: I would have liked a little guidance on how to take apart such a critical part of my life support system.

Obviously, this is a manual for air diluent and NDLs. Is there a Meg manual for trimix and beyond? Shouldn't there be? Does anyone have any plans for one? It would be nice if there were a manual that clearly explained how to take the solenoid apart, how to make batteries, how to rewire the battery compartment to allow off-the-shelf batteries, how to do field repairs of common problems...It would be nice if there were an owner's manual of the kind of things that you don't need to know till you need to know them in a hurry.

Hi Nick

Here is a usfull PDF of the solinoid strip down..
http://www.rebreatherworld.com/attac...1&d=1190784857
You should also call ISC and get a copy of thier factory manual its way better than the ANDI one.

cheers

Abbo · 26th September 2007, 05:46

Quote: (Originally Posted by tecdivertraining)

Hi Nick

Here is a usfull PDF of the solinoid strip down..
http://www.rebreatherworld.com/attac...1&d=1190784857
You should also call ISC and get a copy of thier factory manual its way better than the ANDI one.

cheers

Excellent, many thanks. I wasn't aware of the factory manual.

26th September 2007, 03:18	#1 (permalink)
Abbo Going down on Meg Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Tokyo Posts: 389	Does anyone do a Meg trimix manual? Prompted by the WTB - Meg diver student kit thread... http://www.rebreatherworld.com/newre...ote=1&p=137861 ...I went and got a copy of the ANDI manual. It's still a great manual, and it remains peerless (sorry, IANTD, that's not a manual and I want my money back!). It has been updated somewhat since I last read it during training (I notice it says, unequivocably, that the Apecs 3.0 will be out in 2007...It also warns upfront that there is a software problem with the old solenoid). There were at least 3 points in the manual where it says "your instructor will show you how to do x" - one was where it didn't show you how to calibrate the unit and another was where it does not tell you how to leak test the carriage assembly. I can see an argument for preventing self-teaching, but I still found this a little odd. According to the text, it is now high time I took the solenoid apart and cleaned it, but the manual only mentions this in passing: I would have liked a little guidance on how to take apart such a critical part of my life support system. Obviously, this is a manual for air diluent and NDLs. Is there a Meg manual for trimix and beyond? Shouldn't there be? Does anyone have any plans for one? It would be nice if there were a manual that clearly explained how to take the solenoid apart, how to make batteries, how to rewire the battery compartment to allow off-the-shelf batteries, how to do field repairs of common problems...It would be nice if there were an owner's manual of the kind of things that you don't need to know till you need to know them in a hurry.
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26th September 2007, 03:24	#2 (permalink)
kieranu Apprentice Meg Pilot Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: WA, Australia Posts: 229	Re: Does anyone do a Meg trimix manual? Too true - I've done 50 hours on my solenoid and I got the unit second-hand so who knows how many hours it did before that without being rebuilt
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26th September 2007, 03:58	#3 (permalink)
Steve Ladies bring a plate Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Classic Kiss MK 15.X Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Perth - Australia Posts: 1,070	Re: Does anyone do a Meg trimix manual? Hi Mate, All of the things you mentioned are covered in a Meg Technicians course. Any Trimix skills are covered in a course, I for one don't hand out my materials to anyone that hasn't done a course with me. __________________ WARNING: I contain occasional coarse language, extreme sexual references, nudity, and adult themes, which may offend some people - Usually churchy types.
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26th September 2007, 04:00	#4 (permalink)
tibby untitled Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2007 Location: Salt Lake City, UT Posts: 336	Re: Does anyone do a Meg trimix manual? I have just finished reading the ANDI Meg manual the second time and I agree with Abbo. I'm a nobody when it comes to Rebreather expertise but as a user I would really like to see an ISC Meg manual rather than a third party's and it should cover all capabilities of the unit including trimix (separate chapter, etc). I wonder if that's on anyone's radar. I also wonder what manual is used for COPIS units (not my case but...) because there's no mention of it in the ANDI book. I don't think third-party outsourcing of user manuals is good business practice in the first place due to much opportunity for loss/skew of information. If training is outsourced then it should include and/or reference the manufacturer's user manual. Tibby __________________ Does the voice of reason change when you add helium to the mix?...hmm
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26th September 2007, 04:10	#5 (permalink)
kieranu Apprentice Meg Pilot Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: WA, Australia Posts: 229	Re: Does anyone do a Meg trimix manual? Steve does make a fair point - technician training to a level where you can either work on your own unit or your own and other is available through ISC. As far as I know the ANDI manual predates the existence of COPIS.
(Offline)

26th September 2007, 04:26	#6 (permalink)
Abbo Going down on Meg Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Tokyo Posts: 389	Re: Does anyone do a Meg trimix manual? I'm not sure Steve does have a point. If every 50 hours I have to pull apart the solenoid then I, as an owner, need to know how to do it. If every 30 hours I am going to have to change batteries then I need to be able to do it myself, but no manual advises you on that. Those batteries are a pain to get hold of and expensive to freight, so I need to know how to change the wiring or make my own batteries. I have had help with that, which was lucky, but a lot of owners are in locations where there is nobody to help out. It seems very wrong that every owner should be faced with a choice of taking a technician's course in the US or being unable to dive his unit for a significant part of the year while it's back at the factory getting basic work done on it. These days, you get a War & Peace-sized manual with a toaster oven, and you don't trust your life to a toaster oven. ISC need to get to work on a manual.
(Offline)

26th September 2007, 04:41	#7 (permalink)
kieranu Apprentice Meg Pilot Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: WA, Australia Posts: 229	Re: Does anyone do a Meg trimix manual? Quote: (Originally Posted by Abbo) If every 30 hours I am going to have to change batteries then I need to be able to do it myself, but no manual advises you on that. Those batteries are a pain to get hold of and expensive to freight, so I need to know how to change the wiring or make my own batteries. I was under the impression that the ANDI manual did tell you how to make both the AA and the lithium C battery packs. The battery packs that last 30 hours or so are made up from normal AAs so should be pretty easy to get hold of - sadly I can't read more than about 10 characters in kanji so doing a google for me is pretty pointless, but I imagine in Tokyo it shouldn't be too hard to get a hold of the lithiums that last considerably longer and either make the battery packs up yourself or take them and an existing battery pack into Akihabara Denki Gai (if you can't get the cells themselves there) and get them made up for you. As for the solenoid, they are recommended to service every 50 hours but they could fail earlier or later or never. Most manufacturers seem to recommend a full service being done every 12 months / 50 hours / 100 hours. I don't think ISC is the exception here. I'm going to send mine for a service in the next few weeks and get a general service, have the solenoid replaced and software upgraded at the same time. Last edited by kieranu : 26th September 2007 at 04:44.
(Offline)

26th September 2007, 04:49	#8 (permalink)
Lancer4545 Closed Circuit Divers Aus Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Cairns QLD Australia Posts: 574	Re: Does anyone do a Meg trimix manual? I have been a repair technician for 30 years and have worked on engines as small as your thumb to engines that are 7 storys high, along with all the ancillary equipment that goes with them. My point is, I have seen my fair share of mistakes made by people who should know how to carry out repairs. Not to mention even more by people who aren't qualified. I know there are a lot of handy people out there who can put their hand to being able to repair just about anything. Usually things which if they fail will not seriously harm or kill them. My personal opinion is, leave a lot of the real tricky stuff to the professionals who do it day after day and know them intimately. I for one sent my Meg head to ISC as soon as I got it and had them upgrade the software and overhaul it. Whilst it was there they made a few modifications I never even knew about and I am sure neither did the rest of us. If you're comfortable servicing bits and pieces of your dive gear then fine but somewhere along the way the guys who are doing their own servicing have been shown what to do by someone who has had the training and has spent many years in the field. At some point it's always best to send it to the manufacturer and have it serviced, tested and calibrated........ Lance __________________ You can run but you can't hide! ISC Appointed Megalodon Dealer for East Australia http://www.closedcircuitdivers.com.au info@closedcircuitdivers.com.au
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26th September 2007, 05:46	#10 (permalink)
Abbo Going down on Meg Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Tokyo Posts: 389	Re: Does anyone do a Meg trimix manual? Quote: (Originally Posted by tecdivertraining) Hi Nick Here is a usfull PDF of the solinoid strip down.. http://www.rebreatherworld.com/attac...1&d=1190784857 You should also call ISC and get a copy of thier factory manual its way better than the ANDI one. cheers Excellent, many thanks. I wasn't aware of the factory manual.
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