New 4th cells 4 megs

***caveseeker7*** · 21st August 2007, 17:53

Quote: (Originally Posted by JonnyB)

From what i know, every single rebreather except the Prism, has the RR-LL standard. I dont know if the prism has the additions right, but i am sure the bottles are crossed.

Correct Jonny, on the PRISM the O2 is on the left, as is the manual O2 addition (lower right side of the exhalation bag - the loop is counterclockwise). Diluent is on the diver's right, with the ADV/manual addition valve being on the upper right of the inhalation bag.

So while the RR/LL are inverted, there is an O2 and a dil side to the unit.
Just on the wrong sides.

RonMicjan · 21st August 2007, 18:12

what I want to know is why would you put a 4th cell exactly in the spot designed to COLLECT moisture??? The tiny groove, that leads to the space in the sensor carriage is designed to channel condensation to the moisture pad, that someone has thoughtfully pushed to the side and stuffed a cell there, so now the moisture will collect on the cell face instead. Sorry, not a good idea from my point of view. not to mention you really dont need it, 4th cell that is.

JonnyB · 21st August 2007, 18:20

Quote: (Originally Posted by RonMicjan)

what I want to know is why would you put a 4th cell exactly in the spot designed to COLLECT moisture??? The tiny groove, that leads to the space in the sensor carriage is designed to channel condensation to the moisture pad, that someone has thoughtfully pushed to the side and stuffed a cell there, so now the moisture will collect on the cell face instead. Sorry, not a good idea from my point of view. not to mention you really dont need it, 4th cell that is.

If you were to put a 4th cell on a Meg, where would you put it?
Ignore the fact about it being needed or not.
What if you could make the tracks that lead the humidity to the sponge, not to lead to the cell, but to the sponge next to it.

/Jonny

RonMicjan · 21st August 2007, 19:10

Quote: (Originally Posted by JonnyB)

If you were to put a 4th cell on a Meg, where would you put it?
Ignore the fact about it being needed or not.
What if you could make the tracks that lead the humidity to the sponge, not to lead to the cell, but to the sponge next to it.

/Jonny

I think that instead of using the collar they made for the inhale coupler just to route the wire, it should be expanded to fit the cell, so any moisture would have already condensed prior to hitting the cell. Or just use the ISC solution and put it in the top of the of the inhale CL using the modified ADV. I suggested this method to Kevin Gurr when he wanted to make a 4th cell holder before ISC had the ADV version going. Kevin never made it though.

If you look at the way the sensor carriage is designed, the cells are arranged in a triangle above the moisture trap (normal diver slightly head up position) Putting the cell at the bottom is an invitation to drip moisture on it and below it (where the wire connections are)

Outlaw · 21st August 2007, 20:44

Quote: (Originally Posted by JonnyB)

From what i know, every single rebreather except the Prism, has the RR-LL standard. I dont know if the prism has the additions right, but i am sure the bottles are crossed.
Anyhow, by having this that way then you will always know that every one else who dives a rebreather knows which addition to use in case of an emergency. For self rescue and to save a buddy.
Other than that, for me O2 on right hand is kind of grown into my habit. And makes me work automatically.

/Jonny

Jonny, i guess i have to agree with you on that more or less all Rebreather divers know right is o2 and left is dil. true that there is a change to be saved and someone just needs to add o2 or dil to your lung. but, your buddy, wouldn't know before you dive together? there will not be a hose to the right lung, so both would be on the left. dil would be on the ADV so it would be obvious that the other would be o2. better if the lp o2 hose is green?

am sorry, hijackking the thread, but other that the point you mentioned, do you think that the points i mentioned earlier do not sound logical?

about the 4th cell holder now,

i never thought it the way Ron has explained things. have to agree with him about the position and moisture though. his comments do sound logical.

Thanks.

Gilles · 22nd August 2007, 04:06

Quote: (Originally Posted by Outlaw)

hey Jonny, hey guys,

... its good because if you are scootering, then you have your left hand to do stuff, ...

... you dont have to have one hand on the valve and one on the hose blocking it forcing the gas to go around the loop. ...

As Spyros mentions,

1) the left hand operates the Rebreather (man-ad, ADV, wing), and right hand is free for scooter/reel/etc.
2) O2 flushes much easier

and

3) Cells respond quicker

If one cell gets wacky, time to turn the dive, and dive on remaining two (that have been dil checked). If two or more, min loop and SCR to get back home.

JonnyB · 22nd August 2007, 04:26

Quote: (Originally Posted by Outlaw)

your buddy, wouldn't know before you dive together?

Who says that your buddy has to save you, it can easily be some other Rebreather diver in the water.

/Jonny

andy_t576 · 22nd August 2007, 05:09

Quote: (Originally Posted by RonMicjan)

what I want to know is why would you put a 4th cell exactly in the spot designed to COLLECT moisture??? The tiny groove, that leads to the space in the sensor carriage is designed to channel condensation to the moisture pad, that someone has thoughtfully pushed to the side and stuffed a cell there, so now the moisture will collect on the cell face instead. Sorry, not a good idea from my point of view. not to mention you really dont need it, 4th cell that is.

hi ron the placement off the cell was so not to mod the unit. and it was the most sensible place to put the cell , and yes the tiny groove leads to the cell but from extensive testing the cell picks up no more water than the other 3 cells that are there. after all with the cell in positions they are your scrubber bi product is moisture to which all cells are subject to . and the spounge still does its job to , although some people would like to keep the spounge in the whole space how many other Rebreather's have a sponge or moisture trap?? the inspo has neither yet can be mounted with several 4th,5th cell adaptors.

cheers ANDY T

Gilles · 22nd August 2007, 05:28

Quote: (Originally Posted by JonnyB)

Ofcourse not then you are breaking the left-Lean right-Rich standard. I would rather turn the hoses and the mushroom valves

/Jonny

Quote: (Originally Posted by JonnyB)

Who says that your buddy has to save you, it can easily be some other Rebreather diver in the water.

/Jonny

I don't have strong feelings about this, more friendly fun than anything

. Also risk being a hijacker

.

Assuming one puts his 4th cell in the inhale lung, and wants to switch his O2 man-ad lung to the other side...

Wouldn't simply installing a green/yellow O2 man-ad hose be sufficient for indicating to another Rebreather diver (stranger or not), rather than switch loop circulation?

I just replaced a black man-ad hose with a yellow one that comes across my front. Very easy to tell that it comes from the right-hand ("right is rich") inboard.

JonnyB · 22nd August 2007, 06:59

Quote: (Originally Posted by Gilles)

Wouldn't simply installing a green/yellow O2 man-ad hose be sufficient for indicating to another Rebreather diver (stranger or not), rather than switch loop circulation?

You are presuming that the rescuer will spend a good 15-30 seconds to analyze your system setup.
From what i know, having pulled a few people out of the water, things go alot faster and i act on gut feeling and instinct.

/Jonny

21st August 2007, 17:53	#41 (permalink)
*caveseeker7* Who loves ya, baby Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Too far from Neverland Posts: 5,451	Re: New 4th cells 4 megs Quote: (Originally Posted by JonnyB) From what i know, every single rebreather except the Prism, has the RR-LL standard. I dont know if the prism has the additions right, but i am sure the bottles are crossed. Correct Jonny, on the PRISM the O2 is on the left, as is the manual O2 addition (lower right side of the exhalation bag - the loop is counterclockwise). Diluent is on the diver's right, with the ADV/manual addition valve being on the upper right of the inhalation bag. So while the RR/LL are inverted, there is an O2 and a dil side to the unit. Just on the wrong sides. __________________ Cheers Stefan "Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.!"
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21st August 2007, 18:12	#42 (permalink)
RonMicjan Cap Ron scourge of the NW Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Dolphin Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Dolphin Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cape Disapointment, The Graveyard of the Pacific Posts: 1,100	Re: New 4th cells 4 megs what I want to know is why would you put a 4th cell exactly in the spot designed to COLLECT moisture??? The tiny groove, that leads to the space in the sensor carriage is designed to channel condensation to the moisture pad, that someone has thoughtfully pushed to the side and stuffed a cell there, so now the moisture will collect on the cell face instead. Sorry, not a good idea from my point of view. not to mention you really dont need it, 4th cell that is. __________________ Marine rescue, towing and salvage. Interfering with natural selection since 1983. www.tmishop.com Diving bits etc. www.seatowpdx.com The Summer Job Last edited by RonMicjan : 21st August 2007 at 18:14.
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21st August 2007, 18:20	#43 (permalink)
JonnyB Johnny The Hatch Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Titan Other CCR Other SCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Megalodon Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Other CCR Other SCR Home Build Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Sweden (Stockholm)/Cyprus(Ayia Napa) Posts: 970	Re: New 4th cells 4 megs Quote: (Originally Posted by RonMicjan) what I want to know is why would you put a 4th cell exactly in the spot designed to COLLECT moisture??? The tiny groove, that leads to the space in the sensor carriage is designed to channel condensation to the moisture pad, that someone has thoughtfully pushed to the side and stuffed a cell there, so now the moisture will collect on the cell face instead. Sorry, not a good idea from my point of view. not to mention you really dont need it, 4th cell that is. If you were to put a 4th cell on a Meg, where would you put it? Ignore the fact about it being needed or not. What if you could make the tracks that lead the humidity to the sponge, not to lead to the cell, but to the sponge next to it. /Jonny __________________ A quote from Crazyduck - In remembering our own Rob Davies. "Outbound flight 777 heavy you are cleared for flight Due west into that warm red Texas sunset You have angels on your wings and divers memories on your six." Rest In Peace http://www.divetekcyprus.com http://www.diveccr.com
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21st August 2007, 19:10	#44 (permalink)
RonMicjan Cap Ron scourge of the NW Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Dolphin Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Dolphin Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cape Disapointment, The Graveyard of the Pacific Posts: 1,100	Re: New 4th cells 4 megs Quote: (Originally Posted by JonnyB) If you were to put a 4th cell on a Meg, where would you put it? Ignore the fact about it being needed or not. What if you could make the tracks that lead the humidity to the sponge, not to lead to the cell, but to the sponge next to it. /Jonny I think that instead of using the collar they made for the inhale coupler just to route the wire, it should be expanded to fit the cell, so any moisture would have already condensed prior to hitting the cell. Or just use the ISC solution and put it in the top of the of the inhale CL using the modified ADV. I suggested this method to Kevin Gurr when he wanted to make a 4th cell holder before ISC had the ADV version going. Kevin never made it though. If you look at the way the sensor carriage is designed, the cells are arranged in a triangle above the moisture trap (normal diver slightly head up position) Putting the cell at the bottom is an invitation to drip moisture on it and below it (where the wire connections are) __________________ Marine rescue, towing and salvage. Interfering with natural selection since 1983. www.tmishop.com Diving bits etc. www.seatowpdx.com The Summer Job
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21st August 2007, 20:44	#45 (permalink)
Outlaw In search of Law breaking Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Cyprus, Nicosia Posts: 634	Re: New 4th cells 4 megs Quote: (Originally Posted by JonnyB) From what i know, every single rebreather except the Prism, has the RR-LL standard. I dont know if the prism has the additions right, but i am sure the bottles are crossed. Anyhow, by having this that way then you will always know that every one else who dives a rebreather knows which addition to use in case of an emergency. For self rescue and to save a buddy. Other than that, for me O2 on right hand is kind of grown into my habit. And makes me work automatically. /Jonny Jonny, i guess i have to agree with you on that more or less all Rebreather divers know right is o2 and left is dil. true that there is a change to be saved and someone just needs to add o2 or dil to your lung. but, your buddy, wouldn't know before you dive together? there will not be a hose to the right lung, so both would be on the left. dil would be on the ADV so it would be obvious that the other would be o2. better if the lp o2 hose is green? am sorry, hijackking the thread, but other that the point you mentioned, do you think that the points i mentioned earlier do not sound logical? about the 4th cell holder now, i never thought it the way Ron has explained things. have to agree with him about the position and moisture though. his comments do sound logical. Thanks. __________________ CMAS - IANTD - TDI Kamikazi Instrustor Trainer DIRRebreather Team Member ---------------------------- "Once an Outlaw, always an Outlaw"
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22nd August 2007, 04:06	#46 (permalink)
Gilles Worship the feminine Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Den Haag (Netherlands) Posts: 762	Re: New 4th cells 4 megs Quote: (Originally Posted by Outlaw) hey Jonny, hey guys, ... its good because if you are scootering, then you have your left hand to do stuff, ... ... you dont have to have one hand on the valve and one on the hose blocking it forcing the gas to go around the loop. ... As Spyros mentions, 1) the left hand operates the Rebreather (man-ad, ADV, wing), and right hand is free for scooter/reel/etc. 2) O2 flushes much easier and 3) Cells respond quicker If one cell gets wacky, time to turn the dive, and dive on remaining two (that have been dil checked). If two or more, min loop and SCR to get back home. __________________ Gilles http://www.dirrebreather.com Last edited by Gilles : 22nd August 2007 at 04:11.
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22nd August 2007, 04:26	#47 (permalink)
JonnyB Johnny The Hatch Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Titan Other CCR Other SCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Megalodon Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Other CCR Other SCR Home Build Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Sweden (Stockholm)/Cyprus(Ayia Napa) Posts: 970	Re: New 4th cells 4 megs Quote: (Originally Posted by Outlaw) your buddy, wouldn't know before you dive together? Who says that your buddy has to save you, it can easily be some other Rebreather diver in the water. /Jonny __________________ A quote from Crazyduck - In remembering our own Rob Davies. "Outbound flight 777 heavy you are cleared for flight Due west into that warm red Texas sunset You have angels on your wings and divers memories on your six." Rest In Peace http://www.divetekcyprus.com http://www.diveccr.com
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22nd August 2007, 05:09	#48 (permalink)
andy_t576 New Member Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Megalodon Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: manchester Posts: 17	Re: New 4th cells 4 megs Quote: (Originally Posted by RonMicjan) what I want to know is why would you put a 4th cell exactly in the spot designed to COLLECT moisture??? The tiny groove, that leads to the space in the sensor carriage is designed to channel condensation to the moisture pad, that someone has thoughtfully pushed to the side and stuffed a cell there, so now the moisture will collect on the cell face instead. Sorry, not a good idea from my point of view. not to mention you really dont need it, 4th cell that is. hi ron the placement off the cell was so not to mod the unit. and it was the most sensible place to put the cell , and yes the tiny groove leads to the cell but from extensive testing the cell picks up no more water than the other 3 cells that are there. after all with the cell in positions they are your scrubber bi product is moisture to which all cells are subject to . and the spounge still does its job to , although some people would like to keep the spounge in the whole space how many other Rebreather's have a sponge or moisture trap?? the inspo has neither yet can be mounted with several 4th,5th cell adaptors. cheers ANDY T __________________ WE are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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22nd August 2007, 05:28	#49 (permalink)
Gilles Worship the feminine Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Den Haag (Netherlands) Posts: 762	Re: New 4th cells 4 megs Quote: (Originally Posted by JonnyB) Ofcourse not then you are breaking the left-Lean right-Rich standard. I would rather turn the hoses and the mushroom valves /Jonny Quote: (Originally Posted by JonnyB) Who says that your buddy has to save you, it can easily be some other Rebreather diver in the water. /Jonny I don't have strong feelings about this, more friendly fun than anything . Also risk being a hijacker . Assuming one puts his 4th cell in the inhale lung, and wants to switch his O2 man-ad lung to the other side... Wouldn't simply installing a green/yellow O2 man-ad hose be sufficient for indicating to another Rebreather diver (stranger or not), rather than switch loop circulation? I just replaced a black man-ad hose with a yellow one that comes across my front. Very easy to tell that it comes from the right-hand ("right is rich") inboard. __________________ Gilles http://www.dirrebreather.com Last edited by Gilles : 22nd August 2007 at 05:32.
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22nd August 2007, 06:59	#50 (permalink)
JonnyB Johnny The Hatch Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Titan Other CCR Other SCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Megalodon Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Other CCR Other SCR Home Build Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Sweden (Stockholm)/Cyprus(Ayia Napa) Posts: 970	Re: New 4th cells 4 megs Quote: (Originally Posted by Gilles) Wouldn't simply installing a green/yellow O2 man-ad hose be sufficient for indicating to another Rebreather diver (stranger or not), rather than switch loop circulation? You are presuming that the rescuer will spend a good 15-30 seconds to analyze your system setup. From what i know, having pulled a few people out of the water, things go alot faster and i act on gut feeling and instinct. /Jonny __________________ A quote from Crazyduck - In remembering our own Rob Davies. "Outbound flight 777 heavy you are cleared for flight Due west into that warm red Texas sunset You have angels on your wings and divers memories on your six." Rest In Peace http://www.divetekcyprus.com http://www.diveccr.com
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