Necklace Bailout 2nd stage?

mempilot · 15th June 2007, 15:52

I'm new CCR, and I currently do not have a BOV on my Meg. For bailout I open the valve on the offboard bailout bottle, deploy the 2nd stage, close the DSV, insert in 2nd stage in mouth, purge, and breath. After the sanity breaths, analysis of the loop/PO2, if I go back on the loop, stowing the deployed 2nd is a PITA depending on the situation (more so, since I considering going to sidemount for offboard bottles).

A few points to note: I charge the 2nd on the bailout bottle prior to the dive and then shut the valve like I used to on OC to alleviate freeflow and loss of gas.

Here's the question. Sans a BOV, would wearing the 2nd stage on a necklace and leaving the bottle on make bailout a much faster process? What would be the advised way to run the hose; around the back of the neck like a deco reg? I know this would make passing the bottle a PITA, but thinking of my needs first.

Any thoughts or advice would be much appreciated.

Genesis · 15th June 2007, 15:57

I did this with the K1 before I put a BOV on.

It works.

Use a deco-length hose and run it exactly like a deco reg. The only problem is putting it on - its somewhat of a pain in the neck as you have to clip on the bottle and then snake the hose around your neck to put the necklace on, but it works.

Also, fit an inflator hose on that bailout reg and stow it (tucked in like a stowed deco reg hose.) This allows you to plug it into the diluent manual add valve if you lose the built-in diluent for some reason but are otherwise ok.

mempilot · 15th June 2007, 16:08

Genesis,

Thanks. I actually already have the inflator on the 1st for exactly that reason. I also use it to blow my cc lift bags. I'll try the routing on Saturday. The question I have about running it around the back of the neck is the over the should counterlungs. The hoses sit up kind of high, so the hose would be run over the top of the loop hoses?? This would seem to pull the 2nd up toward my face vs hanging down. I'll have to play with it a bit. To thread it under would involve help and make the bottle impossible to hand off. The other option seems to loop the hose from left to right tucked into the belt and up the right side. If I needed to hand the bottle off, I could just pop the necklase and pull the hose out from it's tucked position????

BTW, when did you make the transition to Rebreather? The last time I talked to you(quite a while ago) you were still on doubles like me.

I didn't think you'd make the switch. You still have the Hatteras?

Eric

Quote: (Originally Posted by Genesis)

I did this with the K1 before I put a BOV on.

It works.

Use a deco-length hose and run it exactly like a deco reg. The only problem is putting it on - its somewhat of a pain in the neck as you have to clip on the bottle and then snake the hose around your neck to put the necklace on, but it works.

Also, fit an inflator hose on that bailout reg and stow it (tucked in like a stowed deco reg hose.) This allows you to plug it into the diluent manual add valve if you lose the built-in diluent for some reason but are otherwise ok.

Genesis · 15th June 2007, 16:14

Quote: (Originally Posted by mempilot)

Genesis,

Thanks. I actually already have the inflator on the 1st for exactly that reason. I also use it to blow my cc lift bags. I'll try the routing on Saturday. The question I have about running it around the back of the neck is the over the should counterlungs. The hoses sit up kind of high, so the hose would be run over the top of the loop hoses?? This would seem to pull the 2nd up toward my face vs hanging down. I'll have to play with it a bit. To thread it under would involve help and make the bottle impossible to hand off. The other option seems to loop the hose from left to right tucked into the belt and up the right side. If I needed to hand the bottle off, I could just pop the necklase and pull the hose out from it's tucked position????

BTW, when did you make the transition to Rebreather? The last time I talked to you(quite a while ago) you were still on doubles like me.

I didn't think you'd make the switch. You still have the Hatteras?

Eric

I ran it just like a deco reg and dealt with the "fit" - it wasn't bad. It did pull a bit but not badly. I guess you could put a swivel on the second if you wanted to try to negate some of that a bit..... but I didn't find it to be a problem.

You can't route UNDER loop components as noted, or you won't be able to hand it off.

I've since put a KISS BOV on the unit; the thing to remember with any sort of onboard bail is that at depth there's not a lot in the can, so its really just a way to get a couple of solid breaths before you bail to offboard. I've yet to need it "in anger".

I built my own Rebreather...... sold the Hatt, still have my 23 CC. Loved the boat but it just wasn't getting used enough to justify the five-figure annual carrying cost. There are a lot of reasons I did it and am still teaching myself how not to die

mempilot · 15th June 2007, 16:20

No onboard bailout for me. All offboard. No BOV in the near future, and I'm not sure I'd like adding the bulk to the DSV. I'd have to dive one before I coughed up the moola. I'll play with the routing today and try it on a couple of dives tomorrow.

Too bad about having to sell the Hatt.

I looked forward to getting out on her someday. I was up that way about a year ago to dive the Might 'O', but it was a quick trip and I didn't get a chance to give you a shout.

Eric

Quote: (Originally Posted by Genesis)

I ran it just like a deco reg and dealt with the "fit" - it wasn't bad. It did pull a bit but not badly. I guess you could put a swivel on the second if you wanted to try to negate some of that a bit..... but I didn't find it to be a problem.

You can't route UNDER loop components as noted, or you won't be able to hand it off.

I've since put a KISS BOV on the unit; the thing to remember with any sort of onboard bail is that at depth there's not a lot in the can, so its really just a way to get a couple of solid breaths before you bail to offboard. I've yet to need it "in anger".

I built my own Rebreather...... sold the Hatt, still have my 23 CC. Loved the boat but it just wasn't getting used enough to justify the five-figure annual carrying cost. There are a lot of reasons I did it and am still teaching myself how not to die

Genesis · 15th June 2007, 16:22

You don't notice the BOV weight in the water; it "disappears". You DO notice it when dry. You will also notice the cost - they're not cheap.

I may evenutally get rid of it and go back to a necklace, but with the K1 being a homebuild and me being the crash test dummy, I wanted the extra margin in the event of an "oh crap!" event, at least for a while.

JCdesign97 · 15th June 2007, 16:43

Just finished my training last weekend and pondered the same question before and during. What I settled on for now is running a second stage off of onboard dil worn on a necklace for the quick-grab/sanity breaths ... then after check if I decide to stay off the loop, I have the time to deploy the offboard BOB reg (48" hose), wrap it around my head if I want to and make the switch. I also have a LP hose on the offboard BOB for loss of dil, lift bags, etc. The 48" hose is also nice if you have to give it to a buddy - a little longer. Sanity breaths from onboard dil aren't a huge problem on the Optima with the 27cf tanks, but if/when I eventually switch to smaller tanks I may re-think that. For now I'm not really into the idea of a BOV, but of course that may evolve with everything else ...

Octopus · 15th June 2007, 17:08

I tried mine on a necklace and it just didn't seem to work for me.
Now I just run it from the bailout, round the back of my neck and let it hang down my right side. Its right there when I want it, on top of my inhale counterlung.

Never seems to move and is always to hand. Just got to shorten the hose a touch.

mempilot · 15th June 2007, 17:12

Quote: (Originally Posted by JCdesign97)

Sanity breaths from onboard dil aren't a huge problem on the Optima with the 27cf tanks, but if/when I eventually switch to smaller tanks I may re-think that.

I dive with a couple of Optima owners and their ability to do the sanity breaths off the 27's is nice. One of them just went to smaller tanks though, so I'll have to find out what he is doing now. Maybe the same quandary?

With my Meg, I use 13 cf steels, and my buddy uses 19 cf steels. I think with the 19's, it may be doable to take a few sanity hits, but with the 13's, I don't think so.

I'm going to play around with hose routing and a necklace on the next couple of dives. I'll post my reports after the dives.

mempilot · 15th June 2007, 17:14

Octo,

Does it hang on the outside of the CL? Do you have it secured in any way?

MEM

Quote: (Originally Posted by Octopus)

I tried mine on a necklace and it just didn't seem to work for me.
Now I just run it from the bailout, round the back of my neck and let it hang down my right side. Its right there when I want it, on top of my inhale counterlung.

Never seems to move and is always to hand. Just got to shorten the hose a touch.

15th June 2007, 15:52	#1 (permalink)
mempilot Eric Stadtmueller Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Megalodon Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Ft. Lauderdale Posts: 1,473	Necklace Bailout 2nd stage? I'm new CCR, and I currently do not have a BOV on my Meg. For bailout I open the valve on the offboard bailout bottle, deploy the 2nd stage, close the DSV, insert in 2nd stage in mouth, purge, and breath. After the sanity breaths, analysis of the loop/PO2, if I go back on the loop, stowing the deployed 2nd is a PITA depending on the situation (more so, since I considering going to sidemount for offboard bottles). A few points to note: I charge the 2nd on the bailout bottle prior to the dive and then shut the valve like I used to on OC to alleviate freeflow and loss of gas. Here's the question. Sans a BOV, would wearing the 2nd stage on a necklace and leaving the bottle on make bailout a much faster process? What would be the advised way to run the hose; around the back of the neck like a deco reg? I know this would make passing the bottle a PITA, but thinking of my needs first. Any thoughts or advice would be much appreciated. __________________ Eric Stadtmueller, otherwise known as, MEM "Da Pilot"
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15th June 2007, 15:57	#2 (permalink)
Genesis Bubbless Box of Death Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Sunny Florida Posts: 1,397	Re: Necklace Bailout 2nd stage? I did this with the K1 before I put a BOV on. It works. Use a deco-length hose and run it exactly like a deco reg. The only problem is putting it on - its somewhat of a pain in the neck as you have to clip on the bottle and then snake the hose around your neck to put the necklace on, but it works. Also, fit an inflator hose on that bailout reg and stow it (tucked in like a stowed deco reg hose.) This allows you to plug it into the diluent manual add valve if you lose the built-in diluent for some reason but are otherwise ok. __________________ "A venturesome minority will always be eager to get off on their own, and no obstacles should be placed in their path; let them take risks for Godsake, let them get lost, sunburnt, stranded, drowned, eaten by bears, buried alive under avalanches - that is the right and privilege of any free American." http://www.denninger.net http://www.diversunion.org/liability.htm - Fix the Diving Cert racket
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15th June 2007, 16:08	#3 (permalink)
mempilot Eric Stadtmueller Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Megalodon Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Ft. Lauderdale Posts: 1,473	Re: Necklace Bailout 2nd stage? Genesis, Thanks. I actually already have the inflator on the 1st for exactly that reason. I also use it to blow my cc lift bags. I'll try the routing on Saturday. The question I have about running it around the back of the neck is the over the should counterlungs. The hoses sit up kind of high, so the hose would be run over the top of the loop hoses?? This would seem to pull the 2nd up toward my face vs hanging down. I'll have to play with it a bit. To thread it under would involve help and make the bottle impossible to hand off. The other option seems to loop the hose from left to right tucked into the belt and up the right side. If I needed to hand the bottle off, I could just pop the necklase and pull the hose out from it's tucked position???? BTW, when did you make the transition to Rebreather? The last time I talked to you(quite a while ago) you were still on doubles like me. I didn't think you'd make the switch. You still have the Hatteras? Eric Quote: (Originally Posted by Genesis) I did this with the K1 before I put a BOV on. It works. Use a deco-length hose and run it exactly like a deco reg. The only problem is putting it on - its somewhat of a pain in the neck as you have to clip on the bottle and then snake the hose around your neck to put the necklace on, but it works. Also, fit an inflator hose on that bailout reg and stow it (tucked in like a stowed deco reg hose.) This allows you to plug it into the diluent manual add valve if you lose the built-in diluent for some reason but are otherwise ok. __________________ Eric Stadtmueller, otherwise known as, MEM "Da Pilot"
(Offline)

15th June 2007, 16:14	#4 (permalink)
Genesis Bubbless Box of Death Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Sunny Florida Posts: 1,397	Re: Necklace Bailout 2nd stage? Quote: (Originally Posted by mempilot) Genesis, Thanks. I actually already have the inflator on the 1st for exactly that reason. I also use it to blow my cc lift bags. I'll try the routing on Saturday. The question I have about running it around the back of the neck is the over the should counterlungs. The hoses sit up kind of high, so the hose would be run over the top of the loop hoses?? This would seem to pull the 2nd up toward my face vs hanging down. I'll have to play with it a bit. To thread it under would involve help and make the bottle impossible to hand off. The other option seems to loop the hose from left to right tucked into the belt and up the right side. If I needed to hand the bottle off, I could just pop the necklase and pull the hose out from it's tucked position???? BTW, when did you make the transition to Rebreather? The last time I talked to you(quite a while ago) you were still on doubles like me. I didn't think you'd make the switch. You still have the Hatteras? Eric I ran it just like a deco reg and dealt with the "fit" - it wasn't bad. It did pull a bit but not badly. I guess you could put a swivel on the second if you wanted to try to negate some of that a bit..... but I didn't find it to be a problem. You can't route UNDER loop components as noted, or you won't be able to hand it off. I've since put a KISS BOV on the unit; the thing to remember with any sort of onboard bail is that at depth there's not a lot in the can, so its really just a way to get a couple of solid breaths before you bail to offboard. I've yet to need it "in anger". I built my own Rebreather...... sold the Hatt, still have my 23 CC. Loved the boat but it just wasn't getting used enough to justify the five-figure annual carrying cost. There are a lot of reasons I did it and am still teaching myself how not to die __________________ "A venturesome minority will always be eager to get off on their own, and no obstacles should be placed in their path; let them take risks for Godsake, let them get lost, sunburnt, stranded, drowned, eaten by bears, buried alive under avalanches - that is the right and privilege of any free American." http://www.denninger.net http://www.diversunion.org/liability.htm - Fix the Diving Cert racket
(Offline)

15th June 2007, 16:20	#5 (permalink)
mempilot Eric Stadtmueller Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Megalodon Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Ft. Lauderdale Posts: 1,473	Re: Necklace Bailout 2nd stage? No onboard bailout for me. All offboard. No BOV in the near future, and I'm not sure I'd like adding the bulk to the DSV. I'd have to dive one before I coughed up the moola. I'll play with the routing today and try it on a couple of dives tomorrow. Too bad about having to sell the Hatt. I looked forward to getting out on her someday. I was up that way about a year ago to dive the Might 'O', but it was a quick trip and I didn't get a chance to give you a shout. Eric Quote: (Originally Posted by Genesis) I ran it just like a deco reg and dealt with the "fit" - it wasn't bad. It did pull a bit but not badly. I guess you could put a swivel on the second if you wanted to try to negate some of that a bit..... but I didn't find it to be a problem. You can't route UNDER loop components as noted, or you won't be able to hand it off. I've since put a KISS BOV on the unit; the thing to remember with any sort of onboard bail is that at depth there's not a lot in the can, so its really just a way to get a couple of solid breaths before you bail to offboard. I've yet to need it "in anger". I built my own Rebreather...... sold the Hatt, still have my 23 CC. Loved the boat but it just wasn't getting used enough to justify the five-figure annual carrying cost. There are a lot of reasons I did it and am still teaching myself how not to die __________________ Eric Stadtmueller, otherwise known as, MEM "Da Pilot"
(Offline)

15th June 2007, 16:22	#6 (permalink)
Genesis Bubbless Box of Death Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Sunny Florida Posts: 1,397	Re: Necklace Bailout 2nd stage? You don't notice the BOV weight in the water; it "disappears". You DO notice it when dry. You will also notice the cost - they're not cheap. I may evenutally get rid of it and go back to a necklace, but with the K1 being a homebuild and me being the crash test dummy, I wanted the extra margin in the event of an "oh crap!" event, at least for a while. __________________ "A venturesome minority will always be eager to get off on their own, and no obstacles should be placed in their path; let them take risks for Godsake, let them get lost, sunburnt, stranded, drowned, eaten by bears, buried alive under avalanches - that is the right and privilege of any free American." http://www.denninger.net http://www.diversunion.org/liability.htm - Fix the Diving Cert racket
(Offline)

15th June 2007, 16:43	#7 (permalink)
JCdesign97 My unit can beat up yours Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: PA, USA Posts: 385	Re: Necklace Bailout 2nd stage? Just finished my training last weekend and pondered the same question before and during. What I settled on for now is running a second stage off of onboard dil worn on a necklace for the quick-grab/sanity breaths ... then after check if I decide to stay off the loop, I have the time to deploy the offboard BOB reg (48" hose), wrap it around my head if I want to and make the switch. I also have a LP hose on the offboard BOB for loss of dil, lift bags, etc. The 48" hose is also nice if you have to give it to a buddy - a little longer. Sanity breaths from onboard dil aren't a huge problem on the Optima with the 27cf tanks, but if/when I eventually switch to smaller tanks I may re-think that. For now I'm not really into the idea of a BOV, but of course that may evolve with everything else ... __________________ Cheers, John Cogan
(Online)

15th June 2007, 17:08	#8 (permalink)
Octopus New Member Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Colchester Essex Posts: 25	Re: Necklace Bailout 2nd stage? I tried mine on a necklace and it just didn't seem to work for me. Now I just run it from the bailout, round the back of my neck and let it hang down my right side. Its right there when I want it, on top of my inhale counterlung. Never seems to move and is always to hand. Just got to shorten the hose a touch. __________________ "You can write what you like, you're not going to win this war!"-Capt G. Mainwaring Dads Army
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15th June 2007, 17:12	#9 (permalink)
mempilot Eric Stadtmueller Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Megalodon Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Ft. Lauderdale Posts: 1,473	Re: Necklace Bailout 2nd stage? Quote: (Originally Posted by JCdesign97) Sanity breaths from onboard dil aren't a huge problem on the Optima with the 27cf tanks, but if/when I eventually switch to smaller tanks I may re-think that. I dive with a couple of Optima owners and their ability to do the sanity breaths off the 27's is nice. One of them just went to smaller tanks though, so I'll have to find out what he is doing now. Maybe the same quandary? With my Meg, I use 13 cf steels, and my buddy uses 19 cf steels. I think with the 19's, it may be doable to take a few sanity hits, but with the 13's, I don't think so. I'm going to play around with hose routing and a necklace on the next couple of dives. I'll post my reports after the dives. __________________ Eric Stadtmueller, otherwise known as, MEM "Da Pilot"
(Offline)

15th June 2007, 17:14	#10 (permalink)
mempilot Eric Stadtmueller Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Megalodon Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Ft. Lauderdale Posts: 1,473	Re: Necklace Bailout 2nd stage? Octo, Does it hang on the outside of the CL? Do you have it secured in any way? MEM Quote: (Originally Posted by Octopus) I tried mine on a necklace and it just didn't seem to work for me. Now I just run it from the bailout, round the back of my neck and let it hang down my right side. Its right there when I want it, on top of my inhale counterlung. Never seems to move and is always to hand. Just got to shorten the hose a touch. __________________ Eric Stadtmueller, otherwise known as, MEM "Da Pilot"
(Offline)

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