injection rate

wondersea · 27th April 2007, 13:06

I am agree with your second point of view, but for the first point, when you are at 30 m, you are starting with 25% not 32%, can you explain me your mind of it ?

**wedivebc** · 27th April 2007, 15:05

Quote: (Originally Posted by wondersea)

What are the other new features of this version 2.05 of APECS ?

Thank's

The menu layout has changed a little so you have to scroll past the calibrate screen to activate the altitude menu and you can now set the handset backlighting to stay on during the dive. A phographer friend of mine thought this was a needed feature and had his 2.01k upgraded because of it.
The big one is the adaptive solenoid algorithm though.
Those are all the changes I recall. There may be others

**UWSojourner** · 27th April 2007, 15:14

Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski)

30m is about the starting "caution" point.. You are starting with 32% so as long as you are relaxed and not working you be ok, move this down to 40m and there is much less margin... If you are working all bets are off..

If you are doing one of these ascents you probably have some reason that caused you to do this, that means most likely your breathing rate and heart are racing, so you o2 consumption is probably fairly high even without "work"

We agree on this Joe. My point is just that exceptionally fast ascent rates aren't necessary for the problem to become critical under the conditions mentioned.

If a diver knows their eCCR won't keep up with a high workload consumption rate, then they should consider the rig a mCCR and adjust accordingly. Fast ascents from depth are a danger in any case.

wondersea · 29th April 2007, 09:08

Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski)

30m is about the starting "caution" point.. You are starting with 32% so as long as you are relaxed and not working you be ok, move this down to 40m and there is much less margin... If you are working all bets are off..

Joe, can you explain me why you start with 32% when you are at 30 m? I don't understad the way you find this.

Thank's

***schford*** · 29th April 2007, 10:11

30 m depth is 4 ata.

Assuming 1.3PP02 you divide it by 4 ata which gives circa 32% O2 in the loop

Micko · 29th April 2007, 13:27

chriso how are ya ? see you in 3 weeks or so `..
Anything over 50msw i will use .75 on bottom being a mix for dill. Air diving default settings 2.5 sec
Always manuall on asscent..
makes me mindfull of Po2 this way

Chris · 29th April 2007, 14:43

Quote: (Originally Posted by Micko)

chriso how are ya ? see you in 3 weeks or so `..

Micko! Hello Old mate. Three weeks and counting

Looking forward to catching up and some sensational diving.

Am running v2.04a, I believe it was the first Meg with ASP. Its works a charm, never worry about the injection rate or setpoint it is always spot on. Does some nifty tricks like auto switching n stuff. Only problem I have is the handsets never go to sleep. Hmm hang on is that really a problem....

Is anyone running 2.05 yet, has it even been shipped ?

Cheers
Chriso

wondersea · 29th April 2007, 17:06

Quote: (Originally Posted by schford)

30 m depth is 4 ata.

Assuming 1.3PP02 you divide it by 4 ata which gives circa 32% O2 in the loop

I am agree with that, but since the beginning of this tread we assume a ppo2 at 1, did i read wrong ?

Why do you presume a ppo2 at 1.3 suddently? It is a normalize ppo2 passing 30m you will change to ascend?

***jradomski*** · 29th April 2007, 18:52

Quote: (Originally Posted by wondersea)

I am agree with that, but since the beginning of this tread we assume a ppo2 at 1, did i read wrong ?

Why do you presume a ppo2 at 1.3 suddently? It is a normalize ppo2 passing 30m you will change to ascend?

I never noticed tthe 1.0.. the majority of CCR divers are yaught to use a SP of around 1.3 as their bottom sP.. Obviously the lower the PO2 you are starting with the more critical things are..

A lower setpoint is usually used on deeper dives where a very drawn out deco scgedule is expected..

wondersea · 29th April 2007, 19:36

I understand now why you talk with 1.3 reference sp. With this data I am agree, naturally, with the 32 %. In fact, I am a new Meg diver and during my training I will be teach to stay with bottom sp 1.0 for dive up to 40m and change during ascend a sp like 1.3/ 1.4 for the deco. The explaination was that with a bottom sp at 1.0, I have more marging and more time reaction with almost the same deco optimisation later than if I was at 1.3. So there is no need to set a sp more than 1.0.
But, I have no other reference than my instructor, so I am also listening with attention some other explaination.
In the Andy Meg book, that I read too, I did'nt notice neither a preconize bottom sp.

27th April 2007, 13:06	#11 (permalink)
wondersea New Member Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: France - Gerzat (63) - Sanary (83) Posts: 78	Re: injection rate I am agree with your second point of view, but for the first point, when you are at 30 m, you are starting with 25% not 32%, can you explain me your mind of it ? __________________ Antoine Pannetier DirRebreather member www.DIRRebreather.com
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27th April 2007, 15:05	#12 (permalink)
wedivebc Dave Tomblin Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Vancouver Island BC Canada Posts: 1,444	Re: injection rate Quote: (Originally Posted by wondersea) What are the other new features of this version 2.05 of APECS ? Thank's The menu layout has changed a little so you have to scroll past the calibrate screen to activate the altitude menu and you can now set the handset backlighting to stay on during the dive. A phographer friend of mine thought this was a needed feature and had his 2.01k upgraded because of it. The big one is the adaptive solenoid algorithm though. Those are all the changes I recall. There may be others __________________ Cheers, Dave.... Man is the only animal burdened with the knowledge he will eventually die
(Online)

27th April 2007, 15:14	#13 (permalink)
UWSojourner Pacific Northwest Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Portland Oregon Posts: 556	Re: injection rate Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski) 30m is about the starting "caution" point.. You are starting with 32% so as long as you are relaxed and not working you be ok, move this down to 40m and there is much less margin... If you are working all bets are off.. If you are doing one of these ascents you probably have some reason that caused you to do this, that means most likely your breathing rate and heart are racing, so you o2 consumption is probably fairly high even without "work" We agree on this Joe. My point is just that exceptionally fast ascent rates aren't necessary for the problem to become critical under the conditions mentioned. If a diver knows their eCCR won't keep up with a high workload consumption rate, then they should consider the rig a mCCR and adjust accordingly. Fast ascents from depth are a danger in any case.
(Online)

29th April 2007, 09:08	#14 (permalink)
wondersea New Member Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: France - Gerzat (63) - Sanary (83) Posts: 78	Re: injection rate Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski) 30m is about the starting "caution" point.. You are starting with 32% so as long as you are relaxed and not working you be ok, move this down to 40m and there is much less margin... If you are working all bets are off.. Joe, can you explain me why you start with 32% when you are at 30 m? I don't understad the way you find this. Thank's __________________ Antoine Pannetier DirRebreather member www.DIRRebreather.com
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29th April 2007, 10:11	#15 (permalink)
*schford* Despotic Overlord Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 3,562	Re: injection rate 30 m depth is 4 ata. Assuming 1.3PP02 you divide it by 4 ata which gives circa 32% O2 in the loop __________________ Bailout and Kit Management account for Murphy's Law The only bad question is one you did not ask and later wish you had. Use of Rebreather World is subject to the Rebreather World Terms & Conditions of Use
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29th April 2007, 13:27	#16 (permalink)
Micko Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: perth Posts: 114	Re: injection rate chriso how are ya ? see you in 3 weeks or so `.. Anything over 50msw i will use .75 on bottom being a mix for dill. Air diving default settings 2.5 sec Always manuall on asscent.. makes me mindfull of Po2 this way
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29th April 2007, 14:43	#17 (permalink)
Chris Go Nude Or Go Home Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Megalodon Prism Topaz Sport Kiss Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 609	Re: injection rate Quote: (Originally Posted by Micko) chriso how are ya ? see you in 3 weeks or so `.. Micko! Hello Old mate. Three weeks and counting Looking forward to catching up and some sensational diving. Am running v2.04a, I believe it was the first Meg with ASP. Its works a charm, never worry about the injection rate or setpoint it is always spot on. Does some nifty tricks like auto switching n stuff. Only problem I have is the handsets never go to sleep. Hmm hang on is that really a problem.... Is anyone running 2.05 yet, has it even been shipped ? Cheers Chriso __________________ Megalodon Sorb and Sensors whilst in Australia www.divetub.com.au Diving & Photography @ www.uwphotog.com Last edited by Chris : 29th April 2007 at 14:55.
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29th April 2007, 17:06	#18 (permalink)
wondersea New Member Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: France - Gerzat (63) - Sanary (83) Posts: 78	Re: injection rate Quote: (Originally Posted by schford) 30 m depth is 4 ata. Assuming 1.3PP02 you divide it by 4 ata which gives circa 32% O2 in the loop I am agree with that, but since the beginning of this tread we assume a ppo2 at 1, did i read wrong ? Why do you presume a ppo2 at 1.3 suddently? It is a normalize ppo2 passing 30m you will change to ascend? __________________ Antoine Pannetier DirRebreather member www.DIRRebreather.com
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29th April 2007, 18:52	#19 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 3,004	Re: injection rate Quote: (Originally Posted by wondersea) I am agree with that, but since the beginning of this tread we assume a ppo2 at 1, did i read wrong ? Why do you presume a ppo2 at 1.3 suddently? It is a normalize ppo2 passing 30m you will change to ascend? I never noticed tthe 1.0.. the majority of CCR divers are yaught to use a SP of around 1.3 as their bottom sP.. Obviously the lower the PO2 you are starting with the more critical things are.. A lower setpoint is usually used on deeper dives where a very drawn out deco scgedule is expected.. __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.
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29th April 2007, 19:36	#20 (permalink)
wondersea New Member Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: France - Gerzat (63) - Sanary (83) Posts: 78	Re: injection rate I understand now why you talk with 1.3 reference sp. With this data I am agree, naturally, with the 32 %. In fact, I am a new Meg diver and during my training I will be teach to stay with bottom sp 1.0 for dive up to 40m and change during ascend a sp like 1.3/ 1.4 for the deco. The explaination was that with a bottom sp at 1.0, I have more marging and more time reaction with almost the same deco optimisation later than if I was at 1.3. So there is no need to set a sp more than 1.0. But, I have no other reference than my instructor, so I am also listening with attention some other explaination. In the Andy Meg book, that I read too, I did'nt notice neither a preconize bottom sp. __________________ Antoine Pannetier DirRebreather member www.DIRRebreather.com
(Offline)

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