Spheres

Jimmer · 31st October 2007, 10:24

Quote: (Originally Posted by diverrob)

I know this is not what the post is about but I thought I would give you a answer to your question. Carleton does not make the MK16 for the Canadian Navy and they are not made in Canada. In fact the Canadian division of Carleton (Fullerton Sherwood) has moved down to the US a few months ago. Canada does get their Rebreather from Carleton but we use the SIVA and SIVA+ (CCDA and CUMA to us).

Rob

Too bad they moved, I actually spoke to Mr. Sherwood there a while ago about trying to get a co-op job for school with them, but at the time he had no room to take on another engineer. Nice looking products, the Viper-E looks pretty interesting, it's a shame that they don't produce systems for the recreational market.

koputai · 31st October 2007, 12:14

Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike)

why dont you tell us the source?

It's my understanding that the Draeger composite spheres in question are actually made exclusively for Draeger,...........by Carleton.

Cheers,
Jason.

diverrob · 31st October 2007, 12:26

Quote: (Originally Posted by HMP)

I read an article about the Canadian navies SIVA, its semi closed isnt it? But it does use the same spheres.
The Royal Navy uses the MK16 currently and there are endless rumors of its replacement. I believe AP, Delta P and Divex all tendered for it.
Due to strict rules on decommissioned life support items, all the Mk16's will sadly be destroyed when they are retired.

Yes both sets are semi closed sets. CCDA is a NITROX set good to 40m and CUMA is a HEO2 set good to 81m

streamway_explorer · 1st November 2007, 10:48

Quote: (Originally Posted by Jimmer)

It said in that article, that Carleton is making Mk16's for other navies. Anyone know which ones? I assume the Canadian navy, since I believe the Mk16's are built here at Carleton's Canadian office.

Australian Navy was the first non US Navy to receive mk16. Col Wilcox was only giving me a run down some of the mk16 history for Australian Navy last weekend. But what I found more interesting was why the mk15.5 was made after the mk16 had already been released. The fact that the 15.5 is not as wide so it can fit in the seat of a wet-sub carrying personal.

***caveseeker7*** · 1st November 2007, 11:02

The RAN's designation is A5800 I believe, the RN also has an iteration of the venerable MK16. Slight diffrences here and there, but all based around the same center section layout.

The MK15.5 was originally designated MK16 MOD1 IIRC, the idea behind it was to salvage the USN's stockpile of MK15 CCRs by updating them with the MK16's newer center section to which the USN owned the rights. Never panned out for some reason or other.

streamway_explorer · 9th November 2007, 09:46

Quote: (Originally Posted by caveseeker7)

The RAN's designation is A5800 I believe, the RN also has an iteration of the venerable MK16. Slight diffrences here and there, but all based around the same center section layout.

The MK15.5 was originally designated MK16 MOD1 IIRC, the idea behind it was to salvage the USN's stockpile of MK15 CCRs by updating them with the MK16's newer center section to which the USN owned the rights. Never panned out for some reason or other.

Thats true,they didnt panned out, but they did come up with some good uses for the 15.5 for some operations which the mk16 was too expensive to be use for. $60k ver 20k because they could mix and match from mk15 and 16 supplys to keep cost down.

1 is try fitting a mk16 into a small wet sub at the time 80's. "they are too wide" hence the idea of the 15.5 without $$$$ bits and pieces as they where not needed to removed mines,but carry people from a submarine to land without being seen and they fitted into the seat of the mini wet sub.

SteveL · 13th November 2007, 10:34

Quote: (Originally Posted by diverrob)

Yes both sets are semi closed sets. CCDA is a NITROX set good to 40m and CUMA is a HEO2 set good to 81m

Hi Rob,

this is a bit off topic and maybe we should move it but I'd be interested to know how the navy run thse units to 81m

What setpoint ?
Is there a standard He02 mix?
do you carry bailout of some description?

Thanks

Steve L

SteveL · 14th November 2007, 12:05

OK guys I just got home from dinner with the guys that runs our manufacturing plant.

think state of the art multi chuck cnc mills - i mean serious shi*t in the metal manufacturing field. computer controlled okuma mills for anyone that knows this stuff. shapes limited by imagination only......

ANYWAY the conversation turns to exotic metals and the like for our field of work. blah blah blah

I bring up the inconel sphere thing - can they make them - how much etc etc for materials and machining ........

the chief machinest bagwan swarmi says he can make the half spheres from a solid block of stainless as the cost of inconel is not really worth considering .
He says " i wish you would give me something hard to make......." more thinking - hard after about 500litres of wine but ......

I say they have to be precision welded together and hydro tested to 5000psi (number from ar*e) he says no problem !!

Cost maybe 1000 bucks each mmmmm thinking ...... just a block of stainless and a day in the machine...... and half a day welding

he askes about steel - no it expands when pressureised and the coating (enamel) cracks off so it has to be some stainless material.

What do you guys reckon ??? we dont "need" inconel - we just need a round 3 litre non corroding pressure vessels with a valve stem that is capable of withstanding a 3000psi working pressure.

Do you guys think it is worth trying a few proto types ??

I dont know the cost at this stage but what about the practicalities / functionality ??? does it matter if they are a few pounds heavier ???

does it matter if say they were 2.8l instead of 2.9l?? does it matter if they are 3.5l ???

As long as they dont corrode, take the pressure and fit in the case do we care??

Please let me know your thoughts and I will see if I can slip a few through the system and see what happens.

Regards

Steve L

**Steve** · 14th November 2007, 12:31

Quote: (Originally Posted by SteveL)

he askes about steel - no it expands when pressureised and the coating (enamel) cracks off so it has to be some stainless material.

I'm not really following you on the expansion issues. Sure the wall thickness would need to be a shade thicker than standard but it shouldn't be a biggie and if they were made from less expensive steel, made so the valves screwed in rather than were welded and painted you may well stand to save a fortune in production costs. If my rough order of magnitude costs are anything to go by you could toss them away every couple of years.
Thoughts?

HMP · 14th November 2007, 14:01

Frankly I dont care what they are made of, iconel, steel, composite. Something that fits and is roughly the same capacity is what I need. Something that could be tested and filled at a local dive shop is what I'd like.
Your machinist sounds good, I'll wait with interest as to what they reckon in the cold light of day...........!

31st October 2007, 10:24	#21 (permalink)
Jimmer New Member Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 58	Re: Spheres Quote: (Originally Posted by diverrob) I know this is not what the post is about but I thought I would give you a answer to your question. Carleton does not make the MK16 for the Canadian Navy and they are not made in Canada. In fact the Canadian division of Carleton (Fullerton Sherwood) has moved down to the US a few months ago. Canada does get their Rebreather from Carleton but we use the SIVA and SIVA+ (CCDA and CUMA to us). Rob Too bad they moved, I actually spoke to Mr. Sherwood there a while ago about trying to get a co-op job for school with them, but at the time he had no room to take on another engineer. Nice looking products, the Viper-E looks pretty interesting, it's a shame that they don't produce systems for the recreational market.
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31st October 2007, 12:14	#22 (permalink)
koputai Subsea Systems Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Other CCR Other SCR Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other CCR Other SCR Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 310	Re: Spheres Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike) why dont you tell us the source? It's my understanding that the Draeger composite spheres in question are actually made exclusively for Draeger,...........by Carleton. Cheers, Jason.
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31st October 2007, 12:26	#23 (permalink)
diverrob The Evolution of Diving Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Other SCR Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other SCR Join Date: May 2005 Location: Victoria BC Canada Posts: 320	Re: Spheres Quote: (Originally Posted by HMP) I read an article about the Canadian navies SIVA, its semi closed isnt it? But it does use the same spheres. The Royal Navy uses the MK16 currently and there are endless rumors of its replacement. I believe AP, Delta P and Divex all tendered for it. Due to strict rules on decommissioned life support items, all the Mk16's will sadly be destroyed when they are retired. Yes both sets are semi closed sets. CCDA is a NITROX set good to 40m and CUMA is a HEO2 set good to 81m
(Online)

1st November 2007, 10:48	#24 (permalink)
streamway_explorer New Member Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Home Build Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 41	Re: Spheres Quote: (Originally Posted by Jimmer) It said in that article, that Carleton is making Mk16's for other navies. Anyone know which ones? I assume the Canadian navy, since I believe the Mk16's are built here at Carleton's Canadian office. Australian Navy was the first non US Navy to receive mk16. Col Wilcox was only giving me a run down some of the mk16 history for Australian Navy last weekend. But what I found more interesting was why the mk15.5 was made after the mk16 had already been released. The fact that the 15.5 is not as wide so it can fit in the seat of a wet-sub carrying personal. __________________ Michael Collins www.trimixdivers.com
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1st November 2007, 11:02	#25 (permalink)
*caveseeker7* Who loves ya, baby Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Too far from Neverland Posts: 5,325	The RAN's designation is A5800 I believe, the RN also has an iteration of the venerable MK16. Slight diffrences here and there, but all based around the same center section layout. The MK15.5 was originally designated MK16 MOD1 IIRC, the idea behind it was to salvage the USN's stockpile of MK15 CCRs by updating them with the MK16's newer center section to which the USN owned the rights. Never panned out for some reason or other. __________________ Cheers Stefan "It is still a good day if you are on the green side of the grass! Su amigo Roberto!" Sponsor Lou in Race For Life!
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9th November 2007, 09:46	#26 (permalink)
streamway_explorer New Member Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Home Build Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 41	Re: Spheres Quote: (Originally Posted by caveseeker7) The RAN's designation is A5800 I believe, the RN also has an iteration of the venerable MK16. Slight diffrences here and there, but all based around the same center section layout. The MK15.5 was originally designated MK16 MOD1 IIRC, the idea behind it was to salvage the USN's stockpile of MK15 CCRs by updating them with the MK16's newer center section to which the USN owned the rights. Never panned out for some reason or other. Thats true,they didnt panned out, but they did come up with some good uses for the 15.5 for some operations which the mk16 was too expensive to be use for. $60k ver 20k because they could mix and match from mk15 and 16 supplys to keep cost down. 1 is try fitting a mk16 into a small wet sub at the time 80's. "they are too wide" hence the idea of the 15.5 without $$$$ bits and pieces as they where not needed to removed mines,but carry people from a submarine to land without being seen and they fitted into the seat of the mini wet sub. __________________ Michael Collins www.trimixdivers.com
(Offline)

13th November 2007, 10:34	#27 (permalink)
SteveL Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 221	Re: Spheres Quote: (Originally Posted by diverrob) Yes both sets are semi closed sets. CCDA is a NITROX set good to 40m and CUMA is a HEO2 set good to 81m Hi Rob, this is a bit off topic and maybe we should move it but I'd be interested to know how the navy run thse units to 81m What setpoint ? Is there a standard He02 mix? do you carry bailout of some description? Thanks Steve L
(Offline)

14th November 2007, 12:05	#28 (permalink)
SteveL Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 221	Re: Spheres OK guys I just got home from dinner with the guys that runs our manufacturing plant. think state of the art multi chuck cnc mills - i mean serious shit in the metal manufacturing field. computer controlled okuma mills for anyone that knows this stuff. shapes limited by imagination only...... ANYWAY the conversation turns to exotic metals and the like for our field of work. blah blah blah I bring up the inconel sphere thing - can they make them - how much etc etc for materials and machining ........ the chief machinest bagwan swarmi says he can make the half spheres from a solid block of stainless as the cost of inconel is not really worth considering . He says " i wish you would give me something hard to make......." more thinking - hard after about 500litres of wine but ...... I say they have to be precision welded together and hydro tested to 5000psi (number from are) he says no problem !! Cost maybe 1000 bucks each mmmmm thinking ...... just a block of stainless and a day in the machine...... and half a day welding he askes about steel - no it expands when pressureised and the coating (enamel) cracks off so it has to be some stainless material. What do you guys reckon ??? we dont "need" inconel - we just need a round 3 litre non corroding pressure vessels with a valve stem that is capable of withstanding a 3000psi working pressure. Do you guys think it is worth trying a few proto types ?? I dont know the cost at this stage but what about the practicalities / functionality ??? does it matter if they are a few pounds heavier ??? does it matter if say they were 2.8l instead of 2.9l?? does it matter if they are 3.5l ??? As long as they dont corrode, take the pressure and fit in the case do we care?? Please let me know your thoughts and I will see if I can slip a few through the system and see what happens. Regards Steve L
(Offline)

14th November 2007, 12:31	#29 (permalink)
Steve Ladies bring a plate Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Classic Kiss MK 15.X Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Perth - Australia Posts: 1,070	Re: Spheres Quote: (Originally Posted by SteveL) he askes about steel - no it expands when pressureised and the coating (enamel) cracks off so it has to be some stainless material. I'm not really following you on the expansion issues. Sure the wall thickness would need to be a shade thicker than standard but it shouldn't be a biggie and if they were made from less expensive steel, made so the valves screwed in rather than were welded and painted you may well stand to save a fortune in production costs. If my rough order of magnitude costs are anything to go by you could toss them away every couple of years. Thoughts? __________________ WARNING: I contain occasional coarse language, extreme sexual references, nudity, and adult themes, which may offend some people - Usually churchy types.
(Online)

14th November 2007, 14:01	#30 (permalink)
HMP New Member Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Dolphin Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Plymouth, U.K. Posts: 95	Re: Spheres Frankly I dont care what they are made of, iconel, steel, composite. Something that fits and is roughly the same capacity is what I need. Something that could be tested and filled at a local dive shop is what I'd like. Your machinist sounds good, I'll wait with interest as to what they reckon in the cold light of day...........!
(Offline)

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