Expedition-level Mk 15.x MCCR in 90 seconds!

**Dave Sutton** · 2nd July 2007, 18:16

Quote: (Originally Posted by Gill Envy)

Oh, now you've done it Teksimple, the whole house of cards is comming down! Just when i've come round to the "MFO" camp, you have to throw this into the mix...and it turns out that Dave's been playing with this in his little shop of horrors for a while now and not telling us! WTF, it's just never a dull moment around here and it goes to show that just when you think you have it all figured out, THINK AGAIN, AND AGAIN, AND AGAIN.

Can't claim anything, this was a *really good tip* from a smart guy. Teksimple has hit the nail squarely. Now run and buy 'em....

.

Thinking that a Mark-15 with a digital Colkan secondary and a rEvodream display/HUD would pretty much be the rig to shoot for using one of these.

Really, for anything less than 75 M or so, it's a waste of money, but it does work. If cost is an object we're in the wrong sport anyhow.

Dave

**Gill Envy** · 2nd July 2007, 18:37

For me for now, until they are manufactured in mass and the scale of economy brings the price down, yes, it would be a waste of money. but what a cool concept.

Dave, I have to ask, you being a guy who seems to be good at putting things in plane english, what the heck does this really mean:

"A laminar flow element is a constriction consisting of a tube bundle or parallel plates used to measure flows with low Reynolds numbers. The differential pressure across this flowmeter is linear with flow." Thus flow rate with a laminar flow rate is not dependent on ABSOLUTE pressure.

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave Sutton)

Can't claim anything, this was a *really good tip* from a smart guy. Teksimple has hit the nail squarely. Now run and buy 'em....

Really, for anything less than 75 M or so, it's a waste of money, but it does work.

Dave

chunter · 2nd July 2007, 18:50

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave Sutton)

Another secret weapon discovered. We've been playing with one of these for the last six months and it does exactly what you think it does.
All theory held aside, chamber runs to 500 feet verify the results.

This *is* the holy grail of mCCR's for deep diving, and is the deluxe way to go about it. The part is of aerospace quality and is first rate.

Dave

Do you have the receipt from your purchase 6 months ago?

teksimple · 2nd July 2007, 19:00

I figured that my post would stir some controversy. Other than adapting it to my rebreather, I did not invent this thing, nor do I guarantee that it actually works. I am only reporting what I have observed.

Lest the Msense become the "cold fusion of closed circuit diving", I too, would like to see some chamber results.

If anyone can demonstrate that they have the equipment to properly test it, I will send my unit to them, at no charge. No cost to you!

Ben Field · 2nd July 2007, 19:19

Nice... I guess I should claim it was my idea too then

Seriously, I was speculating about this a couple of months back and saying- "Why isn't there a thingumybob that can maintain a output pressure with varying input pressure?" I ended up suggesting a variable rate compensated first stage but this is far better.

So its £800'ish? Thanks to the crappy dollar thats less than 400 of our proper English pounds, about the same as a HUD or a Reg + MAV so not mega bucks, infact if depth is your goal its abit of a bargain.

Maybe someone should suggest they make a stainless, seawater compatible version?

I can see that sitting rather nicely up inside the bottom of a KISS CL housing and loose the MAV....

Mind you I don't need the depth just yet- I have a 12+ bar IP now, thats should be fine for a while!

Doorduijn, Niels · 2nd July 2007, 19:36

Teksimple,

Excuse me for what may be a dumb question: to what end have you made this modification? As I understand it you replaced the electronics and replaced it by a Kiss+ valve. If you dislike the primary electronics, why did you buy the unit in the first place?

Rgs,
Niels

P.s. Now if we could combine the electronics and the kiss+ valve, so there would be redundancy....

teksimple · 2nd July 2007, 19:54

Quote: (Originally Posted by Doorduijn, Niels)

If you dislike the primary electronics, why did you buy the unit in the first place?

I LOVE my Hammerhead electronics and KJ makes a superior product, but since I sit on my butt for a living, I make it a point to dive every weekend. If I sent in my electronics, I do not know when they would be returned (no offense, Kevin...you are busy for a reason). So that left me just a few options: either 1. buy another rebreather, 2. dive open circuit, or 3. make my rebreather work without electronics. The Msense was the result of choosing #3.

Quote: (Originally Posted by Doorduijn, Niels)

P.s. Now if we could combine the electronics and the kiss+ valve, so there would be redundancy....

I feel that MCCR's have such a good safety record because they FORCE you to maintain your set point. Take that forced vigilance out of the equation, and you also remove what I feel is the most important safety factor in the maintenance of a diver's vitality.

ardhill · 2nd July 2007, 20:54

Quote: (Originally Posted by Skipbreather)

Absolutely sweet! Warms the cockles ‘o me heart!
(WTF IS a cockle, anyway?

)

Old Latin for the heart's ventricles is "cochleae cordis". So my guess is cochleae = cockles to the unlearned at the time it was first used.

mathias · 2nd July 2007, 21:25

i have see my first mass flow controller (swaeglok) on a rebreather in 2001 on the smg intruder Untitled Document

teksimple · 2nd July 2007, 22:55

Quote: (Originally Posted by Ben Field)

Maybe someone should suggest they make a stainless, seawater compatible version?

Actually, everything on the unit is stainless, Viton, or Delrin with the exception of those screws and lock washers. I talked to the guys at Porter and they would consider an OEM product with stainless screws, though they apparently did not have any to provide me at the time. They did not balk at the liability, either, since they are used to it with their medical products.

2nd July 2007, 18:16	#21 (permalink)
Dave Sutton Diveshop of Horrors Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss MK 15.X rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Narragansett, Rhode Island and Hackettstown, New Jersey Posts: 2,672	Re: Expedition-level Mk 15.x MCCR in 90 seconds! Quote: (Originally Posted by Gill Envy) Oh, now you've done it Teksimple, the whole house of cards is comming down! Just when i've come round to the "MFO" camp, you have to throw this into the mix...and it turns out that Dave's been playing with this in his little shop of horrors for a while now and not telling us! WTF, it's just never a dull moment around here and it goes to show that just when you think you have it all figured out, THINK AGAIN, AND AGAIN, AND AGAIN. Can't claim anything, this was a really good tip from a smart guy. Teksimple has hit the nail squarely. Now run and buy 'em.... . Thinking that a Mark-15 with a digital Colkan secondary and a rEvodream display/HUD would pretty much be the rig to shoot for using one of these. Really, for anything less than 75 M or so, it's a waste of money, but it does work. If cost is an object we're in the wrong sport anyhow. Dave __________________ "Changes in Lattitudes, Changes in Attitudes, Nothing remains quite the same".... www.nobubblediving.com Last edited by Dave Sutton : 2nd July 2007 at 18:37.
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2nd July 2007, 18:37	#22 (permalink)
Gill Envy Shearwater Copis Divers Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Evolution Other CCR Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: seattle Posts: 1,314	Re: Expedition-level Mk 15.x MCCR in 90 seconds! For me for now, until they are manufactured in mass and the scale of economy brings the price down, yes, it would be a waste of money. but what a cool concept. Dave, I have to ask, you being a guy who seems to be good at putting things in plane english, what the heck does this really mean: "A laminar flow element is a constriction consisting of a tube bundle or parallel plates used to measure flows with low Reynolds numbers. The differential pressure across this flowmeter is linear with flow." Thus flow rate with a laminar flow rate is not dependent on ABSOLUTE pressure. Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave Sutton) Can't claim anything, this was a really good tip from a smart guy. Teksimple has hit the nail squarely. Now run and buy 'em.... Really, for anything less than 75 M or so, it's a waste of money, but it does work. Dave __________________ Gill Envy ...Because I wasn't born with gills! ><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>><(°>
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2nd July 2007, 18:50	#23 (permalink)
chunter I like diving Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss MK 15.X Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Classic Kiss Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Honolulu Posts: 478	Re: Expedition-level Mk 15.x MCCR in 90 seconds! Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave Sutton) Another secret weapon discovered. We've been playing with one of these for the last six months and it does exactly what you think it does. All theory held aside, chamber runs to 500 feet verify the results. This is the holy grail of mCCR's for deep diving, and is the deluxe way to go about it. The part is of aerospace quality and is first rate. Dave Do you have the receipt from your purchase 6 months ago? __________________ "Foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." - Emerson "Hobgoblin is a cool word." - Charlie
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2nd July 2007, 19:00	#24 (permalink)
teksimple Enlightened Alpinist Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Back in Hawaii Posts: 503	Re: Expedition-level Mk 15.x MCCR in 90 seconds! I figured that my post would stir some controversy. Other than adapting it to my rebreather, I did not invent this thing, nor do I guarantee that it actually works. I am only reporting what I have observed. Lest the Msense become the "cold fusion of closed circuit diving", I too, would like to see some chamber results. If anyone can demonstrate that they have the equipment to properly test it, I will send my unit to them, at no charge. No cost to you! __________________ ---- _____________ "I don't know the percentage of the Internet that's valid, do you? Jesus, it's scary." - Hunter S. Thompson
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2nd July 2007, 19:19	#25 (permalink)
Ben Field CK+Shearwater Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: London, England Posts: 1,621	Re: Expedition-level Mk 15.x MCCR in 90 seconds! Nice... I guess I should claim it was my idea too then Seriously, I was speculating about this a couple of months back and saying- "Why isn't there a thingumybob that can maintain a output pressure with varying input pressure?" I ended up suggesting a variable rate compensated first stage but this is far better. So its £800'ish? Thanks to the crappy dollar thats less than 400 of our proper English pounds, about the same as a HUD or a Reg + MAV so not mega bucks, infact if depth is your goal its abit of a bargain. Maybe someone should suggest they make a stainless, seawater compatible version? I can see that sitting rather nicely up inside the bottom of a KISS CL housing and loose the MAV.... Mind you I don't need the depth just yet- I have a 12+ bar IP now, thats should be fine for a while! __________________ Know your PPO2, Pre-breath, Use checklists, Validate cells at 6mtrs, Use pure O2 at or near surface, Use a BOV, Don't dive Solo, Change Slime and Cells as recommended by Manufacturer and RTFM! Beware Fridge Suck! www.hugsac.org.uk
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2nd July 2007, 19:36	#26 (permalink)
Doorduijn, Niels Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic MK 15.X Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Dolphin Join Date: May 2005 Location: Netherlands Posts: 53	Re: Expedition-level Mk 15.x MCCR in 90 seconds! Teksimple, Excuse me for what may be a dumb question: to what end have you made this modification? As I understand it you replaced the electronics and replaced it by a Kiss+ valve. If you dislike the primary electronics, why did you buy the unit in the first place? Rgs, Niels P.s. Now if we could combine the electronics and the kiss+ valve, so there would be redundancy....
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2nd July 2007, 19:54	#27 (permalink)
teksimple Enlightened Alpinist Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Back in Hawaii Posts: 503	Re: Expedition-level Mk 15.x MCCR in 90 seconds! Quote: (Originally Posted by Doorduijn, Niels) If you dislike the primary electronics, why did you buy the unit in the first place? I LOVE my Hammerhead electronics and KJ makes a superior product, but since I sit on my butt for a living, I make it a point to dive every weekend. If I sent in my electronics, I do not know when they would be returned (no offense, Kevin...you are busy for a reason). So that left me just a few options: either 1. buy another rebreather, 2. dive open circuit, or 3. make my rebreather work without electronics. The Msense was the result of choosing #3. Quote: (Originally Posted by Doorduijn, Niels) P.s. Now if we could combine the electronics and the kiss+ valve, so there would be redundancy.... I feel that MCCR's have such a good safety record because they FORCE you to maintain your set point. Take that forced vigilance out of the equation, and you also remove what I feel is the most important safety factor in the maintenance of a diver's vitality. __________________ ---- _____________ "I don't know the percentage of the Internet that's valid, do you? Jesus, it's scary." - Hunter S. Thompson
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2nd July 2007, 20:54	#28 (permalink)
ardhill New Member Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland Posts: 46	Re: Expedition-level Mk 15.x MCCR in 90 seconds! Quote: (Originally Posted by Skipbreather) Absolutely sweet! Warms the cockles ‘o me heart! (WTF IS a cockle, anyway? ) Old Latin for the heart's ventricles is "cochleae cordis". So my guess is cochleae = cockles to the unlearned at the time it was first used. __________________ Paul (Note: I currently don't dive a Rebreather, but dive OC. So if anything I say about breathers sounds suspect - it probably is)
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2nd July 2007, 21:25	#29 (permalink)
mathias Ouroboros #31 Current Rebreather/s: Ouroboros Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic MK 15.X Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Switzerland - Murten Posts: 184	Re: Expedition-level Mk 15.x MCCR in 90 seconds! i have see my first mass flow controller (swaeglok) on a rebreather in 2001 on the smg intruder Untitled Document __________________ Our dreams are other people's nightmares ;-) Plus près du fond, plus loin des cons !
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2nd July 2007, 22:55	#30 (permalink)
teksimple Enlightened Alpinist Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Back in Hawaii Posts: 503	Re: Expedition-level Mk 15.x MCCR in 90 seconds! Quote: (Originally Posted by Ben Field) Maybe someone should suggest they make a stainless, seawater compatible version? Actually, everything on the unit is stainless, Viton, or Delrin with the exception of those screws and lock washers. I talked to the guys at Porter and they would consider an OEM product with stainless screws, though they apparently did not have any to provide me at the time. They did not balk at the liability, either, since they are used to it with their medical products. __________________ ---- _____________ "I don't know the percentage of the Internet that's valid, do you? Jesus, it's scary." - Hunter S. Thompson
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