Diluent Configuration on the Sport KISS

***Louby Lou*** · 24th May 2006, 18:19

Hi All

Ben Field has kindly submitted an article to the Rebreatherworld library Diluent Configuration on the Sport KISS which can be found HERE

Quote: (Originally Posted by Ben Field)

Several people asked for some pictures of my Diluent distribution setup on the SportKISS after I described it in a couple of threads on Rebreather World. I'm not claiming its right, clever or good but this is my configuration.

Read more

As usual, please use this thread for any comments, questions, feedback for Ben and if you would like to leave reputation for Ben please use the feedback on the article

Thanks again to Ben

Cheers

Miss Lou

***caveseeker7*** · 24th May 2006, 19:40

And a good article about an intresting setup it is.

Thanks Ben (and Lou).

RonMicjan · 1st June 2006, 05:01

Im not sure if I am reading this correct, but are you plugging your offboard bailout into and parallel to your onboard through a manifold? If this is so, then it would only take one hose or o ring failure to kill your bailout, wing inflation, diluent, drysuit etc? sounds like all eggs in one rather flimsy basket.

narked@10m · 1st June 2006, 07:26

hi there
i also run with offboard dill plumbed in ,this is done with a small manifold just above 1st stage and conected via quick release gcs.
see pic
also very neat and runs parallel with the hoses
regards pete

Ben Field · 1st June 2006, 14:15

Quote: (Originally Posted by RonMicjan)

Im not sure if I am reading this correct, but are you plugging your offboard bailout into and parallel to your onboard through a manifold? If this is so, then it would only take one hose or o ring failure to kill your bailout, wing inflation, diluent, drysuit etc? sounds like all eggs in one rather flimsy basket.

Yup... scary stuff... if I was knocking out 300ft dives regularly or mega deco then maybe I'd rework the concept but in the context of max 40mtr, very limited deco and considering in 10years diving I (nor anyone I've ever dived with) suffered an o-ring or hose failure during a dive.... not scientific admittedly but compared to all the other "eggs in baskets" like only got rubber breathing hoses, only got one set of mushroom valves, only got one KISS valve only got one O2 source..... it starts to get alittle irrelavent.

That said- you have a good point

BEN

RonMicjan · 1st June 2006, 16:30

Sure, I see where you are coming from, I guess the difference I see is that you have combined what should be a completly seperate bailout OC source with your rebreather, so the problem you could be escaping from by bailing out, could take your bailout with it. Agreed, not likely, but possible.
There are some folks out there who have never had a system failure of any kind on any scuba, but Murphy is always out there, waiting on some poor unsuspecting Numpty to have a loss of attention for just a moment...

Dave (wedivebc) has an exercise he does with students on OC, he has an on-off valve tied to the end of a cut LP hose he hooks into the students rig to simulate a blown hose or o ring, to be able to time how long the student takes to do a valve shutdown and then realize how much gas was lost in that time. I dont remember the exact numbers but it was a lot of gas lost very fast, actually faster by using the LP hose then the HP, because the HP has a small orifice and the HP side is not designed to need any kind of flow, wheras the LP side requires flow to work.

I will chide you on your accident analysis and statistics : )

the day before I had my almost famous caustic cocktail, I opened my mouth and told a friend, "this rig is solid, I have never had a leak" Open mouth, insert foot, I almost was killed the next day with a caustic cocktail.

Just last week, I had a BC inflator literally explode into pieces, defective nylon injection molding, luckily I was not in the water and 15 feet away from the rig. During my Meg training, in the pool, I had an o ring extrude out the side of my oxygen regulator, causing a gas loss there too. Sh*t does happen, it is our job to keep it a minor annoyance by training, proper gear configuration, emergency skills practice and a survival mindset.

I might suggest...Plumbing your offboard bailout gas into your DSV and drysuit, while leaving the onboard gas fed to bc inflator and ADV, this way losing one wont mean losing the other.
With your current setup, if you lose all your diluent, either directly from the leak or blown hose, or by subsequently shutting down the valve, you wont be able to inflate anything, wing, loop, BC, or drysuit, so if you lose this gas on a descent, you will not be able to arrest your descent at the same time you wont be able to get a breath off the rig OR your bailout. (this would be classified as a 'bad thing')

I hope you dont think Im ragging on you for messing with your gear, cause Im the prime bad boy when it comes to that, but if you are going to mess with it, make it better, dont make future problems for yourself. having your eyeballs sucked into your head by a vacum packed loop is a bad time to realise that "hmm, I guess that configuration wont work" : )

good luck, have fun!!

Digger · 1st June 2006, 18:42

Don't let shallow dives fool you.

All the serious attempts rebreathers (and wrecks at times) have had at killing me were in relatively shallow water, less than 30m in all cases.

Putting all my eggs in one basket nearly got me, everything pretty much was running from an offboard tank. Since then I've reconfigured in a big way, seriously I nearly drowned.

I have suit from argon bottle, ADV and wing from dil, BOV and bailout offboard. Works very well for me, and means a whole lot of stuff would have to go wrong for not to be able to breathe/float.

I like what you've done, all except the eggs and basket situation. It does look pretty neat.

Digs.

Ben Field · 1st June 2006, 20:46

Quote: (Originally Posted by RonMicjan)

I guess the difference I see is that you have combined what should be a completly seperate bailout OC source with your rebreather, so the problem you could be escaping from by bailing out, could take your bailout with it.

Well only if they are plugged together, flowstop and tank valve open

Quote: (Originally Posted by RonMicjan)

I might suggest...Plumbing your offboard bailout gas into your DSV and drysuit, while leaving the onboard gas fed to bc inflator and ADV, this way losing one wont mean losing the other.

I'm was thinking that adding another generic inflate hose off the bailout wouldn't be a stupid idea.... wouldn't add much to the "tangle" I was trying to avoid and goes much of the way to combat the situations you're suggesting.

Quote: (Originally Posted by RonMicjan)

I hope you dont think Im ragging on you for messing with your gear, cause Im the prime bad boy when it comes to that, but if you are going to mess with it, make it better, dont make future problems for yourself. having your eyeballs sucked into your head by a vacum packed loop is a bad time to realise that "hmm, I guess that configuration wont work" : )

Far from it... critcal analysis is great.
I don't think I've made it worse (yet) as previously I had no bailout that I could access other than a stage reg and all incorrectly lengthed hoses, this was worth doing to tidy things up in my mind.

I think the most important thing to have is inflation... Bailing out completely solves the bulk Dil loss issue (assuming the loop is no go) so as long as you have alternate wing/suit inflate lines from another sourse you should be able to go off the rebreather and ascend?

BEN

24th May 2006, 18:19	#1 (permalink)
*Louby Lou* Fingers crossed..... Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Roman Corinium! Posts: 1,030	Diluent Configuration on the Sport KISS Hi All Ben Field has kindly submitted an article to the Rebreatherworld library Diluent Configuration on the Sport KISS which can be found HERE Quote: (Originally Posted by Ben Field) Several people asked for some pictures of my Diluent distribution setup on the SportKISS after I described it in a couple of threads on Rebreather World. I'm not claiming its right, clever or good but this is my configuration. Read more As usual, please use this thread for any comments, questions, feedback for Ben and if you would like to leave reputation for Ben please use the feedback on the article Thanks again to Ben Cheers Miss Lou __________________ Miss Lou x Use of Rebreather World is subject to the Rebreatherworld Terms and Conditions - Please read! Outlaw Divers - Sssh we're diving! You heff vays uff dealink vis zem, oh Miss Rebreather World Admin! - Rob Davie Feb 06
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24th May 2006, 19:40	#2 (permalink)
*caveseeker7* Who loves ya, baby Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Too far from Neverland Posts: 5,419	Re: Diluent Configuration on the Sport KISS And a good article about an intresting setup it is. Thanks Ben (and Lou). __________________ Cheers Stefan "Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.'!"
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1st June 2006, 05:01	#3 (permalink)
RonMicjan Cap Ron scourge of the NW Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Dolphin Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Dolphin Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cape Disapointment, The Graveyard of the Pacific Posts: 1,082	Re: Diluent Configuration on the Sport KISS Im not sure if I am reading this correct, but are you plugging your offboard bailout into and parallel to your onboard through a manifold? If this is so, then it would only take one hose or o ring failure to kill your bailout, wing inflation, diluent, drysuit etc? sounds like all eggs in one rather flimsy basket. __________________ Ron "Life is pain princess, anyone who tells you different, is selling something", The Dread Pirate Wesley. www.tmishop.com Diving bits etc.
(Offline)

1st June 2006, 14:15	#5 (permalink)
Ben Field CK+Shearwater Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: London, England Posts: 1,559	Re: Diluent Configuration on the Sport KISS Quote: (Originally Posted by RonMicjan) Im not sure if I am reading this correct, but are you plugging your offboard bailout into and parallel to your onboard through a manifold? If this is so, then it would only take one hose or o ring failure to kill your bailout, wing inflation, diluent, drysuit etc? sounds like all eggs in one rather flimsy basket. Yup... scary stuff... if I was knocking out 300ft dives regularly or mega deco then maybe I'd rework the concept but in the context of max 40mtr, very limited deco and considering in 10years diving I (nor anyone I've ever dived with) suffered an o-ring or hose failure during a dive.... not scientific admittedly but compared to all the other "eggs in baskets" like only got rubber breathing hoses, only got one set of mushroom valves, only got one KISS valve only got one O2 source..... it starts to get alittle irrelavent. That said- you have a good point BEN __________________ www.hugsac.org.uk Beware Fridge Suck
(Offline)

1st June 2006, 16:30	#6 (permalink)
RonMicjan Cap Ron scourge of the NW Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Dolphin Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Dolphin Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cape Disapointment, The Graveyard of the Pacific Posts: 1,082	Re: Diluent Configuration on the Sport KISS Sure, I see where you are coming from, I guess the difference I see is that you have combined what should be a completly seperate bailout OC source with your rebreather, so the problem you could be escaping from by bailing out, could take your bailout with it. Agreed, not likely, but possible. There are some folks out there who have never had a system failure of any kind on any scuba, but Murphy is always out there, waiting on some poor unsuspecting Numpty to have a loss of attention for just a moment... Dave (wedivebc) has an exercise he does with students on OC, he has an on-off valve tied to the end of a cut LP hose he hooks into the students rig to simulate a blown hose or o ring, to be able to time how long the student takes to do a valve shutdown and then realize how much gas was lost in that time. I dont remember the exact numbers but it was a lot of gas lost very fast, actually faster by using the LP hose then the HP, because the HP has a small orifice and the HP side is not designed to need any kind of flow, wheras the LP side requires flow to work. I will chide you on your accident analysis and statistics : ) the day before I had my almost famous caustic cocktail, I opened my mouth and told a friend, "this rig is solid, I have never had a leak" Open mouth, insert foot, I almost was killed the next day with a caustic cocktail. Just last week, I had a BC inflator literally explode into pieces, defective nylon injection molding, luckily I was not in the water and 15 feet away from the rig. During my Meg training, in the pool, I had an o ring extrude out the side of my oxygen regulator, causing a gas loss there too. Sh*t does happen, it is our job to keep it a minor annoyance by training, proper gear configuration, emergency skills practice and a survival mindset. I might suggest...Plumbing your offboard bailout gas into your DSV and drysuit, while leaving the onboard gas fed to bc inflator and ADV, this way losing one wont mean losing the other. With your current setup, if you lose all your diluent, either directly from the leak or blown hose, or by subsequently shutting down the valve, you wont be able to inflate anything, wing, loop, BC, or drysuit, so if you lose this gas on a descent, you will not be able to arrest your descent at the same time you wont be able to get a breath off the rig OR your bailout. (this would be classified as a 'bad thing') I hope you dont think Im ragging on you for messing with your gear, cause Im the prime bad boy when it comes to that, but if you are going to mess with it, make it better, dont make future problems for yourself. having your eyeballs sucked into your head by a vacum packed loop is a bad time to realise that "hmm, I guess that configuration wont work" : ) good luck, have fun!! __________________ Ron "Life is pain princess, anyone who tells you different, is selling something", The Dread Pirate Wesley. www.tmishop.com Diving bits etc.
(Offline)

1st June 2006, 18:42	#7 (permalink)
Digger Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Classic Kiss Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Midlands UK Posts: 206	Re: Diluent Configuration on the Sport KISS Don't let shallow dives fool you. All the serious attempts rebreathers (and wrecks at times) have had at killing me were in relatively shallow water, less than 30m in all cases. Putting all my eggs in one basket nearly got me, everything pretty much was running from an offboard tank. Since then I've reconfigured in a big way, seriously I nearly drowned. I have suit from argon bottle, ADV and wing from dil, BOV and bailout offboard. Works very well for me, and means a whole lot of stuff would have to go wrong for not to be able to breathe/float. I like what you've done, all except the eggs and basket situation. It does look pretty neat. Digs.
(Offline)

1st June 2006, 20:46	#8 (permalink)
Ben Field CK+Shearwater Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: London, England Posts: 1,559	Re: Diluent Configuration on the Sport KISS Quote: (Originally Posted by RonMicjan) I guess the difference I see is that you have combined what should be a completly seperate bailout OC source with your rebreather, so the problem you could be escaping from by bailing out, could take your bailout with it. Well only if they are plugged together, flowstop and tank valve open Quote: (Originally Posted by RonMicjan) I might suggest...Plumbing your offboard bailout gas into your DSV and drysuit, while leaving the onboard gas fed to bc inflator and ADV, this way losing one wont mean losing the other. I'm was thinking that adding another generic inflate hose off the bailout wouldn't be a stupid idea.... wouldn't add much to the "tangle" I was trying to avoid and goes much of the way to combat the situations you're suggesting. Quote: (Originally Posted by RonMicjan) I hope you dont think Im ragging on you for messing with your gear, cause Im the prime bad boy when it comes to that, but if you are going to mess with it, make it better, dont make future problems for yourself. having your eyeballs sucked into your head by a vacum packed loop is a bad time to realise that "hmm, I guess that configuration wont work" : ) Far from it... critcal analysis is great. I don't think I've made it worse (yet) as previously I had no bailout that I could access other than a stage reg and all incorrectly lengthed hoses, this was worth doing to tidy things up in my mind. I think the most important thing to have is inflation... Bailing out completely solves the bulk Dil loss issue (assuming the loop is no go) so as long as you have alternate wing/suit inflate lines from another sourse you should be able to go off the rebreather and ascend? BEN __________________ www.hugsac.org.uk Beware Fridge Suck
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