Cylinder Orientation

Scubascooby · 22nd December 2005, 11:26

On the KISS Classsic, what are opinions on rigging the cylinders "non-inverted" ie. valve at the top ?

I'm planning on using 3 litre steel (Faber) ponies. With the existing brackets, the valves and regs just touch the floor. I could move all the brackets but I also noticed how fiddly it was to fit the regs to the cylinders. I imagine it would be worse with the unit strapped to the bench of a hard-boat. It's bound to give me a bad back.

So I'm considering de-inverting the cylinders so that all the set-up is then done at the top.

Peter

Andy Del · 22nd December 2005, 11:46

You could just invert the tanks, which would shift your centre of gravity towards your head more.

What are you using to mount the tanks? I have a pair of G-snaps, but haven't put them on, as a cam band allows me much more flexibility in adjusting the height of the tanks, and also the tanks can move a bit when connecting up the regs to valves. there's no problem (less actually) reaching the valves, and even checking the regs are screwed in properly pre-dive...

I did an experiment a while ago mounting 2 5.7L ally tanks with valves up top. There didn't seem to be much point in inverting the valves, apart from having the tank become the base of the unit. And it was way heavy.

Scubascooby · 22nd December 2005, 13:55

I bought the unit with some stainless slide-in brackets on jubilee clips. I think they are Portland Oceaneering ones. I am not a big fan of this sort of attachment, I prefer strong AP type cam-bands.

Because of where the female half has been screwed onto the KISS case the 3 litre cylinders are just a little bit too low. The bands can't really be fitted nearer the valve, they are all ready just a few millimetres from the start of the shoulder. I would have thought that 3 litre dumpies would have longer necks than the long ones I have but I could be wrong.

Putting the boots at the bottom and the valves at the top just seems to eliminate some of the problems of the Navy layout.

mikedive · 22nd December 2005, 19:48

Hey guys,

I dive a lot of fresh water with wet suit in the Mexican cave and I don't need add any weight on my rig (on this case Classic Inspo) that is why my preference for the tanks up right moving the weight to the top off the unit with out add more unnecessary weight to the rig.
I'm looking for a cage/box to remove my rig from the yellow box and place the tanks up right.

Cheers,

Mike - www.protecdiving.com

rusty · 24th December 2005, 05:52

I mounted my tanks (13cf and 19cf) upright on my classic KISS and liked the trim but found it difficult to reach the valves when compared to the inverted position. I also tried mounting my tanks upright on my sport KISS and had the same problem even with my monkey arms. I have no problem reaching the valves on my old twins(doubles OC), are you guys doing something different that allows you to easily reach the tank valve?

Genesis · 24th December 2005, 06:30

That was going to be my question - can you get to the valves?

In the event of a problem that's a critical need.....

decoweenie · 24th December 2005, 06:55

Quote: (Originally Posted by rusty)

are you guys doing something different that allows you to easily reach the tank valve?

On the CK, I have tried a variety of different tank sizes (2-10L/14-80cf) and orientation (inverted, non-). At the end, I chose to use:

2L/14cf tanks inverted on AL case for wetsuit diving. and
5L/40cf tanks inverted on SS case with feet for drysuit divings

However, on the SK, I use 3L Al tanks upright since they fit the height of the case perfectly. And the weight toward the top of the unit helps with the trim.

In order to reach the valve more easily, I rotate the tank valves toward the front by 45-degree (i.e. not parallel across the shoulder like twinset but 45-deg angle from both sides).

In this configuration, I could reach them even easiler than on twinset.

abowie · 24th December 2005, 11:23

Weenmeister did you try 3l steels on the SK?

I currently have a SS backplate with 2x 3lb weights fixed at the top to get my trim right using 17cuft allies.

I have access to a pair of Faber steel 3l tanks and was going to give them a go. I'd like to get rid of the trim weights (and the backplate if possible).

decoweenie · 24th December 2005, 13:57

We have quite a few divers here use 3L steels - the same tanks as the Inspiration uses. They use AL SK case and AL backplate with these tanks. No additional weight for 3mm, just a few extra lbs for 5mm.

I have tried also, but don't like them since I am too overweighted even with 5mm since I have very little "bioprene"...

The rest of the gang uses SS SK case with 2L AL tanks. As far as I remember, neither of them use weight belt.

However, if you are using drysuit, the 3L steel tanks might provide the needed weight to eliminate the weight belt pending how your buoyancy characteristcs are...

abowie · 24th December 2005, 20:50

Mostly I'll be diving a 5/7mm onepiece or drysuit.

I am amply replete with bioprene so I shall give the steels a try.

22nd December 2005, 11:26	#1 (permalink)
Scubascooby Better Off Out of the EU Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Great Britain Posts: 421	Cylinder Orientation On the KISS Classsic, what are opinions on rigging the cylinders "non-inverted" ie. valve at the top ? I'm planning on using 3 litre steel (Faber) ponies. With the existing brackets, the valves and regs just touch the floor. I could move all the brackets but I also noticed how fiddly it was to fit the regs to the cylinders. I imagine it would be worse with the unit strapped to the bench of a hard-boat. It's bound to give me a bad back. So I'm considering de-inverting the cylinders so that all the set-up is then done at the top. Peter __________________ "dove" is NOT the past tense of "dive" Better off OUT of the EU ! www.hugsac.org.uk
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22nd December 2005, 11:46	#2 (permalink)
Andy Del Classic KISSer Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Australia, Sunny Sydney Posts: 448	Re: Cylinder Orientation You could just invert the tanks, which would shift your centre of gravity towards your head more. What are you using to mount the tanks? I have a pair of G-snaps, but haven't put them on, as a cam band allows me much more flexibility in adjusting the height of the tanks, and also the tanks can move a bit when connecting up the regs to valves. there's no problem (less actually) reaching the valves, and even checking the regs are screwed in properly pre-dive... I did an experiment a while ago mounting 2 5.7L ally tanks with valves up top. There didn't seem to be much point in inverting the valves, apart from having the tank become the base of the unit. And it was way heavy. __________________ Yellow - the colour of greatness!
(Offline)

22nd December 2005, 13:55	#3 (permalink)
Scubascooby Better Off Out of the EU Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Great Britain Posts: 421	Re: Cylinder Orientation I bought the unit with some stainless slide-in brackets on jubilee clips. I think they are Portland Oceaneering ones. I am not a big fan of this sort of attachment, I prefer strong AP type cam-bands. Because of where the female half has been screwed onto the KISS case the 3 litre cylinders are just a little bit too low. The bands can't really be fitted nearer the valve, they are all ready just a few millimetres from the start of the shoulder. I would have thought that 3 litre dumpies would have longer necks than the long ones I have but I could be wrong. Putting the boots at the bottom and the valves at the top just seems to eliminate some of the problems of the Navy layout. __________________ "dove" is NOT the past tense of "dive" Better off OUT of the EU ! www.hugsac.org.uk
(Offline)

22nd December 2005, 19:48	#4 (permalink)
mikedive CCR training in Brazil Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Optima Other CCR RB80 / Clone Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Classic Kiss Ouroboros Other CCR RB80 / Clone Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: South Brazil, Texas and Mexico Posts: 334	Re: Cylinder Orientation Hey guys, I dive a lot of fresh water with wet suit in the Mexican cave and I don't need add any weight on my rig (on this case Classic Inspo) that is why my preference for the tanks up right moving the weight to the top off the unit with out add more unnecessary weight to the rig. I'm looking for a cage/box to remove my rig from the yellow box and place the tanks up right. Cheers, Mike - www.protecdiving.com
(Offline)

24th December 2005, 05:52	#5 (permalink)
rusty RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Sport Kiss Classic Kiss rEvo Other Rebreather/s: Ouroboros rEvo Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: USA,Monterey,CA Posts: 183	Re: Cylinder Orientation I mounted my tanks (13cf and 19cf) upright on my classic KISS and liked the trim but found it difficult to reach the valves when compared to the inverted position. I also tried mounting my tanks upright on my sport KISS and had the same problem even with my monkey arms. I have no problem reaching the valves on my old twins(doubles OC), are you guys doing something different that allows you to easily reach the tank valve?
(Offline)

24th December 2005, 06:30	#6 (permalink)
Genesis Bubbless Box of Death Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Sunny Florida Posts: 1,462	Re: Cylinder Orientation That was going to be my question - can you get to the valves? In the event of a problem that's a critical need.....
(Offline)

24th December 2005, 06:55	#7 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,488	Re: Cylinder Orientation Quote: (Originally Posted by rusty) are you guys doing something different that allows you to easily reach the tank valve? On the CK, I have tried a variety of different tank sizes (2-10L/14-80cf) and orientation (inverted, non-). At the end, I chose to use: 2L/14cf tanks inverted on AL case for wetsuit diving. and 5L/40cf tanks inverted on SS case with feet for drysuit divings However, on the SK, I use 3L Al tanks upright since they fit the height of the case perfectly. And the weight toward the top of the unit helps with the trim. In order to reach the valve more easily, I rotate the tank valves toward the front by 45-degree (i.e. not parallel across the shoulder like twinset but 45-deg angle from both sides). In this configuration, I could reach them even easiler than on twinset. __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
(Offline)

24th December 2005, 11:23	#8 (permalink)
abowie Fighting Girl Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2005 Location: Land of Oz Posts: 574	Re: Cylinder Orientation Weenmeister did you try 3l steels on the SK? I currently have a SS backplate with 2x 3lb weights fixed at the top to get my trim right using 17cuft allies. I have access to a pair of Faber steel 3l tanks and was going to give them a go. I'd like to get rid of the trim weights (and the backplate if possible). __________________ Andrew Bowie Rebreather-friendly Buddy
(Offline)

24th December 2005, 13:57	#9 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,488	Re: Cylinder Orientation We have quite a few divers here use 3L steels - the same tanks as the Inspiration uses. They use AL SK case and AL backplate with these tanks. No additional weight for 3mm, just a few extra lbs for 5mm. I have tried also, but don't like them since I am too overweighted even with 5mm since I have very little "bioprene"... The rest of the gang uses SS SK case with 2L AL tanks. As far as I remember, neither of them use weight belt. However, if you are using drysuit, the 3L steel tanks might provide the needed weight to eliminate the weight belt pending how your buoyancy characteristcs are... __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
(Offline)

24th December 2005, 20:50	#10 (permalink)
abowie Fighting Girl Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2005 Location: Land of Oz Posts: 574	Re: Cylinder Orientation Mostly I'll be diving a 5/7mm onepiece or drysuit. I am amply replete with bioprene so I shall give the steels a try. __________________ Andrew Bowie Rebreather-friendly Buddy
(Offline)

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