Another KISS mod

RobPot · 20th June 2005, 20:08

Just thought I'd share with you all the latest stuff I've been playing around with on the KISS.
The work of breathing on a KISS is not as good as other rebreathers, so until recently Natasha and I had been doing the best we could with SpheraSorb and Trimix.
The next step has been replacing the KISS one-way valves with something with a wider bore

:

Here's a picture of the mouthpiece with the quick-release adapters and the standard one-way valve.

Changing the adapter somewhat (a nice man with a lathe) allowed me to fit the Ambient Pressure one-way valve.

And what it looks like without the valve in place.

And a comparison of the two different valves.

Cons:
Increase in dead-space within the mouthpiece

Pros:
Decreased work of breathing,
More difficult to invert the valve seat (seen that happen on the KISS one-way valve),
Easier to get hold of spares (Falmouth rather than British Columbia!).

Tested on a dive to 50m last weekend on the Modavia with no problem (I s'pose I should have tried it shallower first but heigh ho!

).

Only two more things to fix and I'll be happy!

Robert

Andy M · 20th June 2005, 20:23

Quote: (Originally Posted by RobPot)

Just thought I'd share with you all the latest stuff I've been playing around with on the KISS.
The next step has been replacing the KISS one-way valves with something with a wider bore

Interesting mod. Regarding the hose ends - are these standard Classic Kiss hose ends? I dont recognise them. I thought the classic still had the jubilee clip ends?

Where is the gas seal (o ring or otherwise) between the mushroom valve, and the water?

Philippe GERIN · 20th June 2005, 21:18

Quote: (Originally Posted by RobPot)

(Only two more things to fix and I'll be happy!

Robert

Just curious to know what they are?
Best
Philippe

Pierre Farrugia · 20th June 2005, 21:52

Rob,

My valves holder's blue ones in your pic were recalled this year my ADP as the centre hole where the valve was bigger than previous ones and when rinsing with water pipe (pressure) these calves can get dislodged...so please check, I think recall was from unit maunf. June 2004 onwards. Also maybe be a silly question, are you using the O ring that goes between valve and mouth piece as once I forgot to install it and maybe will leak gas into loop other way!

Nice mod, as hoses also from ADP?

RobPot · 21st June 2005, 09:21

Hi Andy,
I hated the jubilee clips that came with the KISS - PITA to strip things down and IMHO looked a bit naff. The mouthpiece has a new threaded adapter, the hose end uses AP swivel stems and locking rings, and a hose clamp from Tech Blue.
O-rings - there is an o-ring on the shoulder of the mushroom valve (can't see it in the photos as it sits inside the mouthpiece adapter) and a facing o-ring which you might just be able to make out in the disconnected hose end.
(Sorry to read about your display hose - what a nightmare!

)

Hi Philippe,
1) Handsets - I still have hope for a new single display handset with some other stuff, that's being worked on. Dave T suggested the Hammerhead secondary display which might also be a nice idea but would take a lot of work on the kidney - beyond me!

2) Add a hose to the manifold for off-board gas connection. I tried the AP version and wasn't convinced it supplied enough gas.

3) Add a shutoff on the hose from KISS valve to cannister head - either a flow-stop or a Swagelok fitting, haven't decided yet.

4) Perhaps, and I'm still thinking about this, T-off the oxgen inlet and add a second gas connector for spare O2 or using the rich deco mix if the poo really hits the fan.
Any thoughts?

And finally Hi Pierre!
Re the o-rings see above, thanks for the tip but I hope the valves are ok as I only got them last month. Hoses are the standard length from Jetsam - we've tried using the shorter length hoses but as they're made from a thinner rubber they didn't seem very secure using the hose clamps.

Robert

Andy M · 21st June 2005, 09:52

Quote: (Originally Posted by RobPot)

2) Add a hose to the manifold for off-board gas connection. I tried the AP version and wasn't convinced it supplied enough gas.

There have been comments on this on the Kiss list (you are on it arnt you?) seems the combination of integrated dsv and GCS will not supply enough gas at depth to make OC bailout sane.

Quote: (Originally Posted by RobPot)

3) Add a shutoff on the hose from KISS valve to cannister head - either a flow-stop or a Swagelok fitting, haven't decided yet.

Whats wrong with just turning off the O2 supply? you only need to turn it on by 1 or 2 revolutions so it can be shut very fast. Why complicate things?

Quote: (Originally Posted by RobPot)

4) Perhaps, and I'm still thinking about this, T-off the oxgen inlet and add a second gas connector for spare O2 or using the rich deco mix if the poo really hits the fan.
Any thoughts?

Personally I'd just rather bail out to OC if necessary rather than complicate the design of the KISS. It is supposed to be KISS after all.

20th June 2005, 20:08	#1 (permalink)
RobPot Rebreather World Writer Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2005 Location: Portishead - Gateway to the South West Posts: 178	Another KISS mod Just thought I'd share with you all the latest stuff I've been playing around with on the KISS. The work of breathing on a KISS is not as good as other rebreathers, so until recently Natasha and I had been doing the best we could with SpheraSorb and Trimix. The next step has been replacing the KISS one-way valves with something with a wider bore : Here's a picture of the mouthpiece with the quick-release adapters and the standard one-way valve. Changing the adapter somewhat (a nice man with a lathe) allowed me to fit the Ambient Pressure one-way valve. And what it looks like without the valve in place. And a comparison of the two different valves. Cons: Increase in dead-space within the mouthpiece Pros: Decreased work of breathing, More difficult to invert the valve seat (seen that happen on the KISS one-way valve), Easier to get hold of spares (Falmouth rather than British Columbia!). Tested on a dive to 50m last weekend on the Modavia with no problem (I s'pose I should have tried it shallower first but heigh ho! ). Only two more things to fix and I'll be happy! Robert Last edited by RobPot : 14th November 2005 at 10:14.
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20th June 2005, 20:23	#2 (permalink)
Andy M Dude Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Cambridge, UK Posts: 423	Quote: (Originally Posted by RobPot) Just thought I'd share with you all the latest stuff I've been playing around with on the KISS. The next step has been replacing the KISS one-way valves with something with a wider bore Interesting mod. Regarding the hose ends - are these standard Classic Kiss hose ends? I dont recognise them. I thought the classic still had the jubilee clip ends? Where is the gas seal (o ring or otherwise) between the mushroom valve, and the water? __________________ Know your PO2 at all times
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20th June 2005, 21:18	#3 (permalink)
Philippe GERIN ccr apprentice Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2005 Location: Strasbourg, France Posts: 636	Quote: (Originally Posted by RobPot) (Only two more things to fix and I'll be happy! Robert Just curious to know what they are? Best Philippe
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20th June 2005, 21:52	#4 (permalink)
Pierre Farrugia Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Malta Posts: 636	Rob, My valves holder's blue ones in your pic were recalled this year my ADP as the centre hole where the valve was bigger than previous ones and when rinsing with water pipe (pressure) these calves can get dislodged...so please check, I think recall was from unit maunf. June 2004 onwards. Also maybe be a silly question, are you using the O ring that goes between valve and mouth piece as once I forgot to install it and maybe will leak gas into loop other way! Nice mod, as hoses also from ADP? __________________ Pierre Farrugia My wife told me " If you don't quit diving I'm going to leave you" My reply " God, I'll miss you" www.atlam.org www.divemed.com
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21st June 2005, 09:21	#5 (permalink)
RobPot Rebreather World Writer Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2005 Location: Portishead - Gateway to the South West Posts: 178	questions, questions, questions Hi Andy, I hated the jubilee clips that came with the KISS - PITA to strip things down and IMHO looked a bit naff. The mouthpiece has a new threaded adapter, the hose end uses AP swivel stems and locking rings, and a hose clamp from Tech Blue. O-rings - there is an o-ring on the shoulder of the mushroom valve (can't see it in the photos as it sits inside the mouthpiece adapter) and a facing o-ring which you might just be able to make out in the disconnected hose end. (Sorry to read about your display hose - what a nightmare! ) Hi Philippe, 1) Handsets - I still have hope for a new single display handset with some other stuff, that's being worked on. Dave T suggested the Hammerhead secondary display which might also be a nice idea but would take a lot of work on the kidney - beyond me! 2) Add a hose to the manifold for off-board gas connection. I tried the AP version and wasn't convinced it supplied enough gas. 3) Add a shutoff on the hose from KISS valve to cannister head - either a flow-stop or a Swagelok fitting, haven't decided yet. 4) Perhaps, and I'm still thinking about this, T-off the oxgen inlet and add a second gas connector for spare O2 or using the rich deco mix if the poo really hits the fan. Any thoughts? And finally Hi Pierre! Re the o-rings see above, thanks for the tip but I hope the valves are ok as I only got them last month. Hoses are the standard length from Jetsam - we've tried using the shorter length hoses but as they're made from a thinner rubber they didn't seem very secure using the hose clamps. Robert
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21st June 2005, 09:52	#6 (permalink)
Andy M Dude Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Cambridge, UK Posts: 423	Quote: (Originally Posted by RobPot) 2) Add a hose to the manifold for off-board gas connection. I tried the AP version and wasn't convinced it supplied enough gas. There have been comments on this on the Kiss list (you are on it arnt you?) seems the combination of integrated dsv and GCS will not supply enough gas at depth to make OC bailout sane. Quote: (Originally Posted by RobPot) 3) Add a shutoff on the hose from KISS valve to cannister head - either a flow-stop or a Swagelok fitting, haven't decided yet. Whats wrong with just turning off the O2 supply? you only need to turn it on by 1 or 2 revolutions so it can be shut very fast. Why complicate things? Quote: (Originally Posted by RobPot) 4) Perhaps, and I'm still thinking about this, T-off the oxgen inlet and add a second gas connector for spare O2 or using the rich deco mix if the poo really hits the fan. Any thoughts? Personally I'd just rather bail out to OC if necessary rather than complicate the design of the KISS. It is supposed to be KISS after all. __________________ Know your PO2 at all times
(Offline)

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