Diluent Configuration on the Sport KISS

Louby Lou

Hi All

Ben Field has kindly submitted an article to the Rebreatherworld library Diluent Configuration on the Sport KISS which can be found HERE

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As usual, please use this thread for any comments, questions, feedback for Ben and if you would like to leave reputation for Ben please use the feedback on the article

Thanks again to Ben

Cheers

Miss Lou

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caveseeker7

And a good article about an intresting setup it is.
Thanks Ben (and Lou).

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RonMicjan

Im not sure if I am reading this correct, but are you plugging your offboard bailout into and parallel to your onboard through a manifold? If this is so, then it would only take one hose or o ring failure to kill your bailout, wing inflation, diluent, drysuit etc? sounds like all eggs in one rather flimsy basket.

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narked@10m

hi there
i also run with offboard dill plumbed in ,this is done with a small manifold just above 1st stage and conected via quick release gcs.
see pic
also very neat and runs parallel with the hoses
regards pete

Attached Images

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Ben Field

Yup... scary stuff... if I was knocking out 300ft dives regularly or mega deco then maybe I'd rework the concept but in the context of max 40mtr, very limited deco and considering in 10years diving I (nor anyone I've ever dived with) suffered an o-ring or hose failure during a dive.... not scientific admittedly but compared to all the other "eggs in baskets" like only got rubber breathing hoses, only got one set of mushroom valves, only got one KISS valve only got one O2 source..... it starts to get alittle irrelavent.

That said- you have a good point

BEN

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RonMicjan

Sure, I see where you are coming from, I guess the difference I see is that you have combined what should be a completly seperate bailout OC source with your rebreather, so the problem you could be escaping from by bailing out, could take your bailout with it. Agreed, not likely, but possible.
There are some folks out there who have never had a system failure of any kind on any scuba, but Murphy is always out there, waiting on some poor unsuspecting Numpty to have a loss of attention for just a moment...

Dave (wedivebc) has an exercise he does with students on OC, he has an on-off valve tied to the end of a cut LP hose he hooks into the students rig to simulate a blown hose or o ring, to be able to time how long the student takes to do a valve shutdown and then realize how much gas was lost in that time. I dont remember the exact numbers but it was a lot of gas lost very fast, actually faster by using the LP hose then the HP, because the HP has a small orifice and the HP side is not designed to need any kind of flow, wheras the LP side requires flow to work.

I will chide you on your accident analysis and statistics : )

the day before I had my almost famous caustic cocktail, I opened my mouth and told a friend, "this rig is solid, I have never had a leak" Open mouth, insert foot, I almost was killed the next day with a caustic cocktail.

Just last week, I had a BC inflator literally explode into pieces, defective nylon injection molding, luckily I was not in the water and 15 feet away from the rig. During my Meg training, in the pool, I had an o ring extrude out the side of my oxygen regulator, causing a gas loss there too. Sh*t does happen, it is our job to keep it a minor annoyance by training, proper gear configuration, emergency skills practice and a survival mindset.

I might suggest...Plumbing your offboard bailout gas into your DSV and drysuit, while leaving the onboard gas fed to bc inflator and ADV, this way losing one wont mean losing the other.
With your current setup, if you lose all your diluent, either directly from the leak or blown hose, or by subsequently shutting down the valve, you wont be able to inflate anything, wing, loop, BC, or drysuit, so if you lose this gas on a descent, you will not be able to arrest your descent at the same time you wont be able to get a breath off the rig OR your bailout. (this would be classified as a 'bad thing')

I hope you dont think Im ragging on you for messing with your gear, cause Im the prime bad boy when it comes to that, but if you are going to mess with it, make it better, dont make future problems for yourself. having your eyeballs sucked into your head by a vacum packed loop is a bad time to realise that "hmm, I guess that configuration wont work" : )

good luck, have fun!!

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Digger

Don't let shallow dives fool you.

All the serious attempts rebreathers (and wrecks at times) have had at killing me were in relatively shallow water, less than 30m in all cases.

Putting all my eggs in one basket nearly got me, everything pretty much was running from an offboard tank. Since then I've reconfigured in a big way, seriously I nearly drowned.

I have suit from argon bottle, ADV and wing from dil, BOV and bailout offboard. Works very well for me, and means a whole lot of stuff would have to go wrong for not to be able to breathe/float.

I like what you've done, all except the eggs and basket situation. It does look pretty neat.

Digs.

Ben Field

Well only if they are plugged together, flowstop and tank valve open

I'm was thinking that adding another generic inflate hose off the bailout wouldn't be a stupid idea.... wouldn't add much to the "tangle" I was trying to avoid and goes much of the way to combat the situations you're suggesting.

Far from it... critcal analysis is great.
I don't think I've made it worse (yet) as previously I had no bailout that I could access other than a stage reg and all incorrectly lengthed hoses, this was worth doing to tidy things up in my mind.

I think the most important thing to have is inflation... Bailing out completely solves the bulk Dil loss issue (assuming the loop is no go) so as long as you have alternate wing/suit inflate lines from another sourse you should be able to go off the rebreather and ascend?

BEN

__________________
Know your PPO2, Pre-breath, Use checklists, Validate cells at 6mtrs, Use pure O2 at or near surface, Use a BOV, Don't dive Solo, Change Slime and Cells as recommended by Manufacturer and RTFM!





www.hugsac.org.uk