Why the Sport KISS

Padowan

I'm a YBOD diver, but am reasonably familiar with the Classis KISS, it's a nicely engineered unit, the operational principle is sound, it's got a decent scrubber rating etc etc. So why did they develop the Sport KISS exactly? What market is it aiming at? Is it forseen as a gradual replacement to the Classic?

Just an idle thought, I'm not taking a pop a the unit, I think it looks nice and compact, and with the operational principle being proven all looks well.

If it aint broke, don't fix it? Just wondered what peoples thoughts were on here.

Is it a deep capable unit? Is it supremely lightweight for travelling perhaps? What?

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Chris

Kim and Gordon recommend 45m on the unit.

Quotes from page 4 of the manual

“ Recommended maximum depth is 165feet or 50 meters”

“The Sport Kiss is a closed circuit rebreather designed for recreational sport diving. It is not recommended for diving deeper that 150 feet (45 meters), cave or wreck penetrations

I did my course on it on the weekend it is a lovely unit to dive we just took them to 25m. IMHO It fits in very nicely for anyone after a super light CCR for longer duration recreational diving and travel.
Cheers
Chris

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Sorb and Sensors whilst in Australia www.divetub.com.au
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Andy M

AFAIK there is no real reason why it cant be taken to the limit of the KISS valve config (i.e. 120m). The depth limits are set based on the scrubber design and expected performance/life at depth.

Interesting that there are two different recommended depths in the manual!

Ken

Hi Padowan,

I think it's an evolutionary step in a same, but slightly different direction than the Classic. My Classic is a beautifully machined piece of kit but I would imagine a hugely time consuming product to make. A molded product like the Sport would certainly be an easier piece of kit to get out the door. Additionally, it addresses a egment of the market not addressed sucessfully by the boxy SCR's or the super expensive Evo.

decoweenie

The following was posted elsewhere when a similar question was asked...

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After diving the Classic-KISS almost exclusively for 3 years, I am getting the Sport-KISS for these personal reasons, and they might not be align with your own interests:

- Same basic operating principles as the Classic-KISS.
- Even easier to maintain and operate.
- Supposedly lower WOB (will verify).
- Much thinner profile to get into tight spaces easier.
- Lighter for travel.
- Easier to modify to carry larger off-board tanks, if needed.
- Easier to add electronic control and/or deco system, if needed.

Concerning the scrubber duration, Gordon tends to be very conservative with his estimations.

The original 3-hour for the Classic-KISS is simply based on the YBOD specs since both scrubbers are relatively the same shape plus the Classic-KISS even hold more sorb. Based on poll feed-back on the user list, many users have pushed the duration much longer than 3-hours depending on the water temperature.

The Sport-KISS only hold 1/2-kg less with the standard scrubber, and same amount with the large optional scrubber. However, since the gas flow is supposedly more efficient, the sorb wavefront is less of an issue thus break-thru will happen more quickly toward the end. This was the reason for 2-1/2-hour duration spec from Gordon since he didn't want the scrubber to break-thru accidentally.

However, during the last in-house scrubber test, it held for 5-hours at 17-deg C!

Aesthetically, I agree that it is different from the "normal" looks of CCR - similar case for the Dive-Rite unit. However, I am more excited about it being the thinnest Rebreather unit available as I have had more than my fair share of diving "RB-fridges" in current and tight places.

With the components being completely modular, it would be a cake-walk to modify to suit one's diving need. I already have modified parts waiting for the unit to come...

Concerning the "shallow" specification of the Sport-KISS when compared to the Classic-KISS, it was for a couple of reasons:

- easier/cheaper for CE-testing and rating.
- separate the markets for both units.

If given a choice, Gordon would love to sell *ONLY* to recreational divers -- same for all manufacturers -- since it involves less risks than to a bunch of technical divers taking the units into exploratory caves for days u/w or deep trimix dives.

And the Sport-KISS is really originally intended to compete against the Dolphin, Azimuth-type units for diving in the recreational range on live-aboards, etc. as that is where the real money at.

Having said that, there is no physical limitations to prevent someone (like I plan to do ) to dive it as deep as the Classic-KISS.

Lastly, the price is the last consideration for me personally since I save enough money doing trimix dives every week-end on the units that they pay for themselves within a year or so. IIRC, the last quick calculation I posted on another thread was around $6/dive in the 70-110m range.

However, cost saving is just a very small benefit from diving Rebreather but this is not the right thread to discuss that...

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And this is the dive report that I did after receiving the Sport-KISS and dived it in Sharm for 2 week in January-2005 ...

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Sport-KISS

Just got home late last night from Sharm after diving the Sport-KISS for about 14 days doing trimix dives and assisting a CCR trimix course with it. Here is a brief excerpts from the report I sent the KISS list...

As shown in the pictures, the unit is EXTREMELY compact and light to pack. Everything (including an Oxycheq wing, and FULL scrubber) fits inside my daypack which I carried on the plane.

The unit took just a few minutes to assemble after each scrubber change. Another minute to do the +/- pressure test and I am ready to go. Tanks are mounted quickly with the new quick-connect brackets that Gordon made. Within a few seconds, the entire Rebreather unit could be taken out of the housing to bring home to rinse/change sorb each night.

The average depth of the dives were ~60m (50-75m), with dives to 92m/300ft inside a canyon and a seacave. I was planning to dive to 110m/360ft in the Blue Hole to test (same as the Classic-KISS), but none of the buddies wanted to since decoing in the Blue Hole were "boring" as there was not a lot of things to see. So I didn't get to dive it that deep, but I don't think there would be any problem.

The trim was excellent, but some people were telling me that my ass was too high. But these were the same guys diving in the 45-degree trim, so I don't know...

IMHO, in general, WOB was much better than the Classic-KISS. ADV was a lot more responsive and quiet which was difficult for me at first to re-learn from diving the Classic-KISS for the last 3 years almost exclusively.

In short, the Sport-KISS is perfect as a travel unit as it is totally compact, light-weight and modular which could be dissamble completely to pieces within minutes, yet a reliable unit to dive.

Sharm

It might be old news to most, but it was my first trip to Sharm so I was totally relying on helps with the different dive operators and logistic information. So here is what I found out just to share in case others want to come to Sharm for the first time...

We used 2 different dive operators: Red Sea Diving College with Guy Haywood and Emperor Divers with Aaron Bruce. I am not aware if any other operators are offering technical diving services.

Both would be excellent choices for recreational diving. However, IMHO, Emperor Divers is my preferred choice for technical diving - especially rebreather diving. Cost-wise, both are similar but the people at Emperor who are guiding/responsible for technical diving are all accomplished and competent technical rebreathers divers versus people at Red Sea College were new to Rebreather (except for Guy) or just getting into the tech scene thru the PADI TecRec program.

In addition, the Emperor people are constantly looking for new deep, technical dive sites to expand their offerings. So they could take divers to different deep sites the entire time you are in Sharm.

Lastly, Aaron Bruce and Mickael Hueze at Emperor Divers are very personable people and recognized the requirements of a proper technical/rebreather diving center, and are doing everything to offer such. They are planning to have different Rebreather units available at the dive center for rental (i.e. Sport-KISS) in the future.

Both centers have spare Inspirations tanks to lend to Rebreather divers using their centers. Both capable of pumping trimix (0.07 Euro/L) and O2 (free) to pressure. Both have stages and sorb (expensive to import into Egypt, 10 Euro/kg). Both have multiple boats.

Red Sea Diving College is located along the promenade in Naama Bay which you could walk to, but can't drive to any more since the area is now blocked off. Emperor Divers is located along the main road which a little further to walk to depend where you stay, but has a parking lot to park your car. Emperor will pick divers up from their hotel in the morning as well as using different ports to save time on the boat ride to dive sites (i.e. Ras Mohammed).

Boats are very comfortable and similar to the same standard from all centers. Lots of space for wet and dry areas, as well as protected indoor for lunch on windy days. Ladders look to be all X-mas tree type so easy to climb with fins on. On-board loos are available. Divers almost never had to carry anything even the Rebreather units/tanks, unless they insist.

We were spoiled rotten to the core diving in such comfort, so going back to the ritual of hauling our own gear onto tiny boats will be a shock...

Making sure to stay in one of the hotels in Naama Bay so you save from having to haggle with taxi drivers, just walk to dive centers, restaurants and bars along the promenade. There are hotels for all budget, from Ritz to hostels. Same for restaurants and bars (alcohol is expensive, Muslim country).

Naama Bay in Sharm is very touristy which means very comfortable with everything available from groceries stores to ATM to dive shops, etc.

If you need more info about Sharm, contact me off-list so we won't bore those who been there before.

In short, the trip was fantastic. I had some of the best dives I have ever done and can't wait to come back soon...

nl_carey

Having just completed my course with Chris in Byron Bay (25m diving with 25m vis in Byron is amazing!) I have my own thoughts.
I have been planning an Rebreather purchase for a while. Inspo and other OTS lungs were out, personal preference of mine. That pretty much left me with the KISS modifying a Dolphin. Having seen the Sport KISS I waited until it came out, and was happy with the changes except for 'untested' scrubber. I decided that enough testing had been done by Jetsam, and I was overjoyed at how simple the unit was overall, so I bit the bullet.
Honestly the unit is seriously nice to dive. I have trim issues on this particular one, but that's due to non-standard tanks, an ally case mated to a steel backplate, changing bailout tank configs and me. The stainless case with transpac-type harness is absolutely awesome to dive - it's like a single tank config, but lighter and 4x the duration.
Having seen the classic KISS assembly and troubleshooting CD, I'm happy with the reduced complexity of the unit (seem ludicrous when you consider the classic compared with others, but there you go) and replacement items should be even easier to get than the previously, which I don't think anyone had problems with.
Overall, I'm not planning to go to 120m, and if I do it will be with another unit I imagine (we'll see in a few years time) and in the meantime the Sport KISS is a great entry-level offering, where the only customisations I plan to make are cosmetic. I wanted an Rebreather to do trimix diving at 35m+, and the Sport KISS allows me to do that.

Andy M

I havnt seen any info on the large optional scrubber. I've heard about it, but its not in the jetsam price list. Assume it is just taller and protrudes from the case a bit more?

Modified parts eeh - Like what?

decoweenie

I don't think Gordon got around to molding it yet, but it should be a synch to make.
Too many ideas to list here , but I could tell you the next Sport-KISS project is the one I mentioned last month -- dual-Sport-KISS -- using one as primary and one as back-up, both piggy-back on each other.

Code name "Rebreather-69"

Before people start to send me page 69 of their Kama-Sutra, I know it is not "technically" correct, but sounds better than "Doggie-Breath" (short for Doggie-Breather)

ROB DAVIE

Phi,

Thanks for the great report, both on the unit, and on the diving centres! That's the kind of diver participation that will make this the best re-breather "NEST" ever!!! Thanks again!

We are really looking forward to your Rebreather-69 project!

Cheers!

Rob Davie

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"CC Rebreathers will become a viable part of tech diving WHEN PIGS FLY!!"--GI3

caveseeker7

When I spoke with Gordon at DEMA hes said the larger scrubber would be 2 inches (about 5cm) higher than the stock scrubber.

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Cheers
Stefan



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