Getting ready for MOD3 in San Diego and I need OFFBOARD plans for the CK

Buck-O-Five · 5th June 2008, 04:46

In about 3 weeks Mel Clark is coming down to San Diego to teach MOD3 for a few of us. I think I have the plans worked out for my offboard O2 and DIL but I would like to see some of your set-ups.

I searched the forums but only found one O2 MOD and one DIL MOD on Rebreather World. Is there anyone else out there who can post their KISS CLASSIC MODS for offboard?

Paul Kim and I are going to start building the offboard setups for the KISS and the rEVO this weekend and I am sure it will all get posted when we are done.

Thanks.

Andy Del · 5th June 2008, 05:36

In keeping things KISS, I use simple AP valves connectors to feed offboard diluent into the manifold. On and off board dil cylinders contain the same gas. Wing feed is off the manifold. (suit inflationis a dedicated suit cylinder) BOV is hard connected to the manifold.

The only reason to have offboard O2 is if the KISS valve line pressuse is going to meet ambient. I think you'll have seen the images ofg how I reg it, ponying a second cylinder into the first. (I also have a second stage on my O2 reg)

Enjoy your mod. 3 course!

cheers

Andy

scubagrunt · 5th June 2008, 06:41

Quote: (Originally Posted by Andy Del)

In keeping things KISS, I use simple AP valves connectors to feed offboard diluent into the manifold.
Andy

I agree KISS!! so i too use to use the AP connectors. attach the male to the KISS or rEvo manifold. then attach the female hose to the Bailout and rich mixes. now you can plug in BO and rich mix if needed. Paul has a great system too. in my opinion better than the AP system. he supplies you a valve that you attach to the rEvo or KISS manifold. now you can attach a standard LP hose to the valve and add mixes. this system is better as it uses standard LP hoses that almost everyone in the team will have. the AP system uses special size hose fittings that cannot be shared except with other AP hoses. So i would check with paul to see if you can get the kit in time!!!
just my 2 cents worth
mel

Andy Del · 5th June 2008, 08:20

Quote: (Originally Posted by scubagrunt)

this system is better as it uses standard LP hoses that almost everyone in the team will have.

Hi Mel

How are the gas flow rates with the smaller fitting?

cheers

Andy

scubagrunt · 5th June 2008, 12:29

Quote: (Originally Posted by Andy Del)

Hi Mel

How are the gas flow rates with the smaller fitting?

cheers

Andy

so far the flow has been fine. remember this is to run the ccr and not an OC reg so the flow does not need to be so high. also at extreme depth one does not want too high of a flow of off-board rich mix. if the off-board BO is plugged in , in the case of an on-board dil failure then the flow will not be the same as some units on-board ADVs will provide for a dil flush, but i guess in this situation something is better than nothing.
mel

jkaterenchuk · 5th June 2008, 17:02

Quote: (Originally Posted by scubagrunt)

so far the flow has been fine. remember this is to run the ccr and not an OC reg so the flow does not need to be so high. also at extreme depth one does not want too high of a flow of off-board rich mix. if the off-board BO is plugged in , in the case of an on-board dil failure then the flow will not be the same as some units on-board ADVs will provide for a dil flush, but i guess in this situation something is better than nothing.
mel

Since he has a Kiss Classic and it appear that this solution screws into the manifold won't he need enough flow to supply the BOV 2nd stage?

John

brinoz · 5th June 2008, 17:30

Quote: (Originally Posted by Buck-O-Five)

In about 3 weeks Mel Clark is coming down to San Diego to teach MOD3 for a few of us. I think I have the plans worked out for my offboard O2 and DIL but I would like to see some of your set-ups.

Hi,

why do you absolutely need offboard dil and O2 for mod3 ?

If you have an inboard dil failure, you just abort the dive and ascent with the dil already in the loop.
If you have a high ppO2 and a dil failure, you bail out, ascent and come back to the loop when the ppO2 has decrease sufficiently by the ascent.
If you have an O2 failure, you go semi close, checking your ppO2, for the deep part, then you bail out.

My position is to stick to the KISS principle. I think that too much "plumbing" add more complexity for few advantages.
I am very interested to hear your comments about it.

Regards
Bruno

Buck-O-Five · 14th June 2008, 03:38

Quote: (Originally Posted by brinoz)

Hi,

why do you absolutely need offboard dil and O2 for mod3 ?

If you have an inboard dil failure, you just abort the dive and ascent with the dil already in the loop.
If you have a high ppO2 and a dil failure, you bail out, ascent and come back to the loop when the ppO2 has decrease sufficiently by the ascent.
If you have an O2 failure, you go semi close, checking your ppO2, for the deep part, then you bail out.

My position is to stick to the KISS principle. I think that too much "plumbing" add more complexity for few advantages.
I am very interested to hear your comments about it.

Regards
Bruno

Bruno,
I have not taken the class yet but I believe having the offboard DIL/O2 allows you to start thinking and working past failures and problems so that you don't have to bailout. Bailing out from 300+ is not a very pleasing remedy. Bailing out of every problem is a MOD 2 remedy.

I also have a buddy or two who want to switch to a no mix DIL on ascent, in order to deco faster. But that is another thread and another argument.

sunkmail · 14th June 2008, 04:01

Quote: (Originally Posted by Buck-O-Five)

Since I live in San Diego and basically have the minds of Deep Outdoors as well as Little Joe at Omniswivel on my side I finally built the offboard for the CK.
This setup will be added right into the stock CK manifold on a 90 degree swivel.

Here is what we came up with.
The swagelok O2 injector is compliments of Paul K.

Maybe I'm missing something ...

Why do you have an 02 button?

If the assembly is attached to the Dil manifold, pressing the button won't add any O2 into the loop, only the source for the ADV. You would have to suck a bunch of dil through to get to the oxygen, possibly ending up with a lower PO2. Am I missing something???

(BTW, I'm in the middle of a Mod 2/3 combo with Mel now ... I'll be seeing her again on Sunday & Monday, and finishing up MOD 3 in July - I have an annoying work schedule :P )

For the training, I'm borrowing an AP set-up, Male end on the Dil manifold and female connectors on my Bail-out tanks

Buck-O-Five · 14th June 2008, 05:21

Quote: (Originally Posted by sunkmail)

Maybe I'm missing something ...

Why do you have an 02 button?

Sorry for the confusion. The offboard is connected into the head on the DIL side. Not through the manifold.

5th June 2008, 04:46	#1 (permalink)
Buck-O-Five CK #287 Pursuit & HUD Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: San Diego, California Posts: 271	Getting ready for MOD3 in San Diego and I need OFFBOARD plans for the CK In about 3 weeks Mel Clark is coming down to San Diego to teach MOD3 for a few of us. I think I have the plans worked out for my offboard O2 and DIL but I would like to see some of your set-ups. I searched the forums but only found one O2 MOD and one DIL MOD on Rebreather World. Is there anyone else out there who can post their KISS CLASSIC MODS for offboard? Paul Kim and I are going to start building the offboard setups for the KISS and the rEVO this weekend and I am sure it will all get posted when we are done. Thanks. __________________ "The Brandon" www.sdtechdiving.com
(Online)

5th June 2008, 05:36	#2 (permalink)
Andy Del Classic KISSer Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Australia, Sunny Sydney Posts: 422	Re: Getting ready for MOD3 in San Diego and I need OFFBOARD plans for the CK In keeping things KISS, I use simple AP valves connectors to feed offboard diluent into the manifold. On and off board dil cylinders contain the same gas. Wing feed is off the manifold. (suit inflationis a dedicated suit cylinder) BOV is hard connected to the manifold. The only reason to have offboard O2 is if the KISS valve line pressuse is going to meet ambient. I think you'll have seen the images ofg how I reg it, ponying a second cylinder into the first. (I also have a second stage on my O2 reg) Enjoy your mod. 3 course! cheers Andy __________________ Yellow - the colour of greatness!
(Offline)

5th June 2008, 06:41	#3 (permalink)
scubagrunt CCR Diva Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Megalodon Classic Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Other SCR Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Other SCR Join Date: May 2005 Location: Washington Posts: 430	Re: Getting ready for MOD3 in San Diego and I need OFFBOARD plans for the CK Quote: (Originally Posted by Andy Del) In keeping things KISS, I use simple AP valves connectors to feed offboard diluent into the manifold. Andy I agree KISS!! so i too use to use the AP connectors. attach the male to the KISS or rEvo manifold. then attach the female hose to the Bailout and rich mixes. now you can plug in BO and rich mix if needed. Paul has a great system too. in my opinion better than the AP system. he supplies you a valve that you attach to the rEvo or KISS manifold. now you can attach a standard LP hose to the valve and add mixes. this system is better as it uses standard LP hoses that almost everyone in the team will have. the AP system uses special size hose fittings that cannot be shared except with other AP hoses. So i would check with paul to see if you can get the kit in time!!! just my 2 cents worth mel __________________ "No good deed goes unpunished!" www.silentscuba.com
(Offline)

5th June 2008, 08:20	#4 (permalink)
Andy Del Classic KISSer Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Australia, Sunny Sydney Posts: 422	Re: Getting ready for MOD3 in San Diego and I need OFFBOARD plans for the CK Quote: (Originally Posted by scubagrunt) this system is better as it uses standard LP hoses that almost everyone in the team will have. Hi Mel How are the gas flow rates with the smaller fitting? cheers Andy __________________ Yellow - the colour of greatness!
(Offline)

5th June 2008, 12:29	#5 (permalink)
scubagrunt CCR Diva Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Megalodon Classic Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Other SCR Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Other SCR Join Date: May 2005 Location: Washington Posts: 430	Re: Getting ready for MOD3 in San Diego and I need OFFBOARD plans for the CK Quote: (Originally Posted by Andy Del) Hi Mel How are the gas flow rates with the smaller fitting? cheers Andy so far the flow has been fine. remember this is to run the ccr and not an OC reg so the flow does not need to be so high. also at extreme depth one does not want too high of a flow of off-board rich mix. if the off-board BO is plugged in , in the case of an on-board dil failure then the flow will not be the same as some units on-board ADVs will provide for a dil flush, but i guess in this situation something is better than nothing. mel __________________ "No good deed goes unpunished!" www.silentscuba.com
(Offline)

5th June 2008, 17:02	#6 (permalink)
jkaterenchuk . Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Megalodon Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2006 Location: Lititz, PA Posts: 827	Re: Getting ready for MOD3 in San Diego and I need OFFBOARD plans for the CK Quote: (Originally Posted by scubagrunt) so far the flow has been fine. remember this is to run the ccr and not an OC reg so the flow does not need to be so high. also at extreme depth one does not want too high of a flow of off-board rich mix. if the off-board BO is plugged in , in the case of an on-board dil failure then the flow will not be the same as some units on-board ADVs will provide for a dil flush, but i guess in this situation something is better than nothing. mel Since he has a Kiss Classic and it appear that this solution screws into the manifold won't he need enough flow to supply the BOV 2nd stage? John
(Offline)

5th June 2008, 17:30	#7 (permalink)
brinoz New Member Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Belgium Posts: 52	Re: Getting ready for MOD3 in San Diego and I need OFFBOARD plans for the CK Quote: (Originally Posted by Buck-O-Five) In about 3 weeks Mel Clark is coming down to San Diego to teach MOD3 for a few of us. I think I have the plans worked out for my offboard O2 and DIL but I would like to see some of your set-ups. Hi, why do you absolutely need offboard dil and O2 for mod3 ? If you have an inboard dil failure, you just abort the dive and ascent with the dil already in the loop. If you have a high ppO2 and a dil failure, you bail out, ascent and come back to the loop when the ppO2 has decrease sufficiently by the ascent. If you have an O2 failure, you go semi close, checking your ppO2, for the deep part, then you bail out. My position is to stick to the KISS principle. I think that too much "plumbing" add more complexity for few advantages. I am very interested to hear your comments about it. Regards Bruno
(Offline)

14th June 2008, 03:38	#8 (permalink)
Buck-O-Five CK #287 Pursuit & HUD Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: San Diego, California Posts: 271	Re: Getting ready for MOD3 in San Diego and I need OFFBOARD plans for the CK Quote: (Originally Posted by brinoz) Hi, why do you absolutely need offboard dil and O2 for mod3 ? If you have an inboard dil failure, you just abort the dive and ascent with the dil already in the loop. If you have a high ppO2 and a dil failure, you bail out, ascent and come back to the loop when the ppO2 has decrease sufficiently by the ascent. If you have an O2 failure, you go semi close, checking your ppO2, for the deep part, then you bail out. My position is to stick to the KISS principle. I think that too much "plumbing" add more complexity for few advantages. I am very interested to hear your comments about it. Regards Bruno Bruno, I have not taken the class yet but I believe having the offboard DIL/O2 allows you to start thinking and working past failures and problems so that you don't have to bailout. Bailing out from 300+ is not a very pleasing remedy. Bailing out of every problem is a MOD 2 remedy. I also have a buddy or two who want to switch to a no mix DIL on ascent, in order to deco faster. But that is another thread and another argument. __________________ "The Brandon" www.sdtechdiving.com
(Online)

14th June 2008, 04:01	#9 (permalink)
sunkmail New Member Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: North Vancouver, BC, Canada Posts: 39	Re: Getting ready for MOD3 in San Diego and I need OFFBOARD plans for the CK Quote: (Originally Posted by Buck-O-Five) Since I live in San Diego and basically have the minds of Deep Outdoors as well as Little Joe at Omniswivel on my side I finally built the offboard for the CK. This setup will be added right into the stock CK manifold on a 90 degree swivel. Here is what we came up with. The swagelok O2 injector is compliments of Paul K. Maybe I'm missing something ... Why do you have an 02 button? If the assembly is attached to the Dil manifold, pressing the button won't add any O2 into the loop, only the source for the ADV. You would have to suck a bunch of dil through to get to the oxygen, possibly ending up with a lower PO2. Am I missing something??? (BTW, I'm in the middle of a Mod 2/3 combo with Mel now ... I'll be seeing her again on Sunday & Monday, and finishing up MOD 3 in July - I have an annoying work schedule :P ) For the training, I'm borrowing an AP set-up, Male end on the Dil manifold and female connectors on my Bail-out tanks
(Online)

14th June 2008, 05:21	#10 (permalink)
Buck-O-Five CK #287 Pursuit & HUD Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: San Diego, California Posts: 271	Re: Getting ready for MOD3 in San Diego and I need OFFBOARD plans for the CK Quote: (Originally Posted by sunkmail) Maybe I'm missing something ... Why do you have an 02 button? Sorry for the confusion. The offboard is connected into the head on the DIL side. Not through the manifold. __________________ "The Brandon" www.sdtechdiving.com
(Online)

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