CK What is Total Loop Volume

PaulTG2 · 10th May 2008, 15:17

Hello,

Does anyone know what the total loop volume is in the classic KISS NOT including the counter lungs? I'm looking for total volume including hoses, scrubber (with sorb), but NOT including counter lungs volume.

I'm trying to do a mathematical model of the decay rate of the PO2. As I'm waiting for my CK to be delivered I can't measure it myself. I thought I'd see if anyone knew the information.

-paul

Sutty · 10th May 2008, 17:48

Quote: (Originally Posted by PaulTG2)

Hello,

Does anyone know what the total loop volume is in the classic KISS NOT including the counter lungs? I'm looking for total volume including hoses, scrubber (with sorb), but NOT including counter lungs volume.

I'm trying to do a mathematical model of the decay rate of the PO2. As I'm waiting for my CK to be delivered I can't measure it myself. I thought I'd see if anyone knew the information.

-paul

Sorry I don't know the volume, I remember someone asking a similar question of the inspo a few years ago and I suggested calculating it with a dilution technique (start with known FO2, add known amount of O2, mix thoroughly by repeatedly pressing on lungs, then see how FO2 changes).
If you find out the volume from a non-Rebreather World source please post it.
If you are modelling PO2 drop THIS thread may interest you.

Neil

jkaterenchuk · 10th May 2008, 22:48

I do not know for sure but I will take a stab at an engineering approximation if it would help you. 4-5 L without CL.

John

Ben Field · 11th May 2008, 11:04

Quote: (Originally Posted by jkaterenchuk)

I do not know for sure but I will take a stab at an engineering approximation if it would help you. 4-5 L without CL.

John

As an alternative engineers guess I'd say 2.5 ltrs... assuming you mean free gas volume when the can if full of slime.

ReikiMaster · 11th May 2008, 12:30

Quote: (Originally Posted by Ben Field)

As an alternative engineers guess I'd say 2.5 ltrs... assuming you mean free gas volume when the can if full of slime.

as a numpty lets break it down

loop hoses 0.5 lts each just filled one with water to measure it = total 1 lt
space in head looks like about 0.5ish to me
space in water trap and central tube if give that another 0.5 lts

so we are up to 2Lts
air space in scrubber, thats a tricky one, shame i binned my last scrubber full yesterday. not sure i fancy filling that with water but with total volume used we could take a guess at a 20% air space. to give a volume.

so yep id agree with something like 2.5-3 lts

Mike Costanzo · 11th May 2008, 15:29

Don't know for sure.

PaulTG2 · 11th May 2008, 17:12

Hello,

Interesting work folks. Keep it coming.

When mine comes in I'll try to measure it. To figure out the scrubber I'm thinking about using small rocks -- perhaps like those used in fish tanks or gardens -- as a substitute for the sorb. Should give a good approximation.

--paul

Ben Field · 11th May 2008, 17:29

Quote: (Originally Posted by PaulTG2)

I'm trying to do a mathematical model of the decay rate of the PO2. As I'm waiting for my CK to be delivered I can't measure it myself. I thought I'd see if anyone knew the information.

Any chance you can elaborate on how and why?

In my expereince you test it, fiddle the O2 IP to a "best" figure and go diving (for me 12.5bar, stock orifice, gives between 4-8minutes between MAV additions at fixed depth.) its a very fluid situation affected by workload and your bodies changing rate of O2 comsumption

Mike Costanzo · 11th May 2008, 20:12

Paul, I think fresh step cat litter would be the closest consistency to Sofnolime more so than aquarium rocks.

PaulTG2 · 11th May 2008, 21:03

Hello,

Why? It just helps me better understand the dynamics and creates a more accurate model in my brain. The more accurate model helps me weed fact from fiction when I read information about Rebreather diving. Finally, when things don't go well I have a better model from which to troubleshoot.

-paul

Quote: (Originally Posted by Ben Field)

Any chance you can elaborate on how and why?

In my expereince you test it, fiddle the O2 IP to a "best" figure and go diving (for me 12.5bar, stock orifice, gives between 4-8minutes between MAV additions at fixed depth.) its a very fluid situation affected by workload and your bodies changing rate of O2 comsumption

10th May 2008, 15:17	#1 (permalink)
PaulTG2 Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Virginia, USA Posts: 425	CK What is Total Loop Volume Hello, Does anyone know what the total loop volume is in the classic KISS NOT including the counter lungs? I'm looking for total volume including hoses, scrubber (with sorb), but NOT including counter lungs volume. I'm trying to do a mathematical model of the decay rate of the PO2. As I'm waiting for my CK to be delivered I can't measure it myself. I thought I'd see if anyone knew the information. -paul
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10th May 2008, 17:48	#2 (permalink)
Sutty Classic Kiss diver Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Glossop, Derbyshire, UK Posts: 800	Re: CK What is Total Loop Volume Quote: (Originally Posted by PaulTG2) Hello, Does anyone know what the total loop volume is in the classic KISS NOT including the counter lungs? I'm looking for total volume including hoses, scrubber (with sorb), but NOT including counter lungs volume. I'm trying to do a mathematical model of the decay rate of the PO2. As I'm waiting for my CK to be delivered I can't measure it myself. I thought I'd see if anyone knew the information. -paul Sorry I don't know the volume, I remember someone asking a similar question of the inspo a few years ago and I suggested calculating it with a dilution technique (start with known FO2, add known amount of O2, mix thoroughly by repeatedly pressing on lungs, then see how FO2 changes). If you find out the volume from a non-Rebreather World source please post it. If you are modelling PO2 drop THIS thread may interest you. Neil __________________ Never forget that life is a finite resource.
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10th May 2008, 22:48	#3 (permalink)
jkaterenchuk . Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Megalodon Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2006 Location: Lititz, PA Posts: 827	Re: CK What is Total Loop Volume I do not know for sure but I will take a stab at an engineering approximation if it would help you. 4-5 L without CL. John
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11th May 2008, 11:04	#4 (permalink)
Ben Field CK+Shearwater Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: London, England Posts: 1,621	Re: CK What is Total Loop Volume Quote: (Originally Posted by jkaterenchuk) I do not know for sure but I will take a stab at an engineering approximation if it would help you. 4-5 L without CL. John As an alternative engineers guess I'd say 2.5 ltrs... assuming you mean free gas volume when the can if full of slime. __________________ Know your PPO2, Pre-breath, Use checklists, Validate cells at 6mtrs, Use pure O2 at or near surface, Use a BOV, Don't dive Solo, Change Slime and Cells as recommended by Manufacturer and RTFM! Beware Fridge Suck! www.hugsac.org.uk
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11th May 2008, 12:30	#5 (permalink)
ReikiMaster CK #21 Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Reading Berkshire Posts: 168	Re: CK What is Total Loop Volume Quote: (Originally Posted by Ben Field) As an alternative engineers guess I'd say 2.5 ltrs... assuming you mean free gas volume when the can if full of slime. as a numpty lets break it down loop hoses 0.5 lts each just filled one with water to measure it = total 1 lt space in head looks like about 0.5ish to me space in water trap and central tube if give that another 0.5 lts so we are up to 2Lts air space in scrubber, thats a tricky one, shame i binned my last scrubber full yesterday. not sure i fancy filling that with water but with total volume used we could take a guess at a 20% air space. to give a volume. so yep id agree with something like 2.5-3 lts Last edited by ReikiMaster : 11th May 2008 at 15:32. Reason: cant type for toffee
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11th May 2008, 15:29	#6 (permalink)
Mike Costanzo Never E nuff Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Maryland & Florida Posts: 133	Re: CK What is Total Loop Volume Don't know for sure. __________________ Mike
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11th May 2008, 17:12	#7 (permalink)
PaulTG2 Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Virginia, USA Posts: 425	Re: CK What is Total Loop Volume Hello, Interesting work folks. Keep it coming. When mine comes in I'll try to measure it. To figure out the scrubber I'm thinking about using small rocks -- perhaps like those used in fish tanks or gardens -- as a substitute for the sorb. Should give a good approximation. --paul
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11th May 2008, 17:29	#8 (permalink)
Ben Field CK+Shearwater Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: London, England Posts: 1,621	Re: CK What is Total Loop Volume Quote: (Originally Posted by PaulTG2) I'm trying to do a mathematical model of the decay rate of the PO2. As I'm waiting for my CK to be delivered I can't measure it myself. I thought I'd see if anyone knew the information. Any chance you can elaborate on how and why? In my expereince you test it, fiddle the O2 IP to a "best" figure and go diving (for me 12.5bar, stock orifice, gives between 4-8minutes between MAV additions at fixed depth.) its a very fluid situation affected by workload and your bodies changing rate of O2 comsumption __________________ Know your PPO2, Pre-breath, Use checklists, Validate cells at 6mtrs, Use pure O2 at or near surface, Use a BOV, Don't dive Solo, Change Slime and Cells as recommended by Manufacturer and RTFM! Beware Fridge Suck! www.hugsac.org.uk
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11th May 2008, 20:12	#9 (permalink)
Mike Costanzo Never E nuff Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Maryland & Florida Posts: 133	Re: CK What is Total Loop Volume Paul, I think fresh step cat litter would be the closest consistency to Sofnolime more so than aquarium rocks. __________________ Mike
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11th May 2008, 21:03	#10 (permalink)
PaulTG2 Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Virginia, USA Posts: 425	Re: CK What is Total Loop Volume Hello, Why? It just helps me better understand the dynamics and creates a more accurate model in my brain. The more accurate model helps me weed fact from fiction when I read information about Rebreather diving. Finally, when things don't go well I have a better model from which to troubleshoot. -paul Quote: (Originally Posted by Ben Field) Any chance you can elaborate on how and why? In my expereince you test it, fiddle the O2 IP to a "best" figure and go diving (for me 12.5bar, stock orifice, gives between 4-8minutes between MAV additions at fixed depth.) its a very fluid situation affected by workload and your bodies changing rate of O2 comsumption
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