Cost of training for Kiss Sport

***jradomski*** · 28th June 2007, 19:47

Quote: (Originally Posted by Rhino_Portland_Oregon)

EXACTLY !!!

That is why I created this thread... I understand that this is an expensive hobby, but I had no idea what the "market price" was for instruction. Thank you to all who have PMed me. Looking at all the responses, I would say that the average price for training is $1200.00 USD.

.

There are Many factors that come into play to determine the cost.. You can't just look at the price alone.. A higher prices doesn't guarantee a better class, but many times discounted instruction is done for several reasons, shorter class durations, lack of instructor experience/reputation, competition (especially from those trying to gain experience), and even less overhead costs.. I would say a fair compensation would be a minimum of $300 or so a day for the instructor..

First thing to consider what certification (agency) are you getting a cert from.. Different programs have different durations.. for example ANDI's recommended pricing for our programs is $1595 (thats what I charge)... The price is based on what our MINIMUM requirements are.. on a good student that comes into the program fully prepared the fastest the class can be completed is usually 5 FULL days, other programs can be complete in 4 or fewer days..

Let me give you an example where differences are possible.. ANDI's program requires the instructor to schedule approximately 4 hours of confined watertime.. this allows the instructor to meet the 180 minutes of confined water training ANDI requires.. I know there are other agencies that only require 60 minutes of confined training..

If an instructor has to travel to the student, paying for the instructors expense is common, that why travelling instructors prefer to teach groups so that the cost can be split among several students.... Also most instructor do reduce the price when there is a group to be trained vs private or semi-private instruction.. just think how much it would cost you if you brought your car to a mechanic and he had to spend 40+ hours working on it (also remember the instructors time doesn't stop when he leave the student, there is usually alot of behnind the scenes time preparing for the next day so that everything runs smoothly).. I'll bet it will be much more than what the instructor is asking for the same amount of time..

zbskii · 28th June 2007, 21:56

Don't forget most agencies require advanced nitrox as well, which tacks on another ~$300.

There's several very experienced instructors in the PNW including one that wrote the TDI kiss manual

But the choice of instructor is a personal one, just realize you have options.
-Brett

Quote: (Originally Posted by Rhino_Portland_Oregon)

EXACTLY !!!

That is why I created this thread... I understand that this is an expensive hobby, but I had no idea what the "market price" was for instruction. Thank you to all who have PMed me. Looking at all the responses, I would say that the average price for training is $1200.00 USD.

Based on that I would say that paying $1500 + the travel, lodging, and food expenses of an instructor for a week is not a fair market value. Also to assume that just because an instructor charges more for lessons that he/she is better or more qualified to instruct, is unfair to the instructors that are remaining in the "standard market pricing" structure.

I have been contacted by a couple instructors here in the Pacific Northwest who are both around the $1200 price. Am I to assume that because they are not going to run me upwards of $2600 for a weeks training that I will be any less qualified to operate the unit?

I think not. I have checked out their websites, and contacted some of their students, and all seems great.....

Thanks again for the help here..... This forum is a great thing for a "nube" like me.

decoweenie · 29th June 2007, 15:32

You guys should be happy that there are so many (less expensive) choices to chose now...

Back in the "old days" (circa 1999), I had to pay for 2 round-trip tickets (me + wife) to Hawaii, pay for renting a beach-front accomodations for a week, pay for eating out every night, pay for her shopping while I am taking the class, pay for car rental, etc...

And pay $1,500 for the class, pay for the sorb, pay for the boat trips, etc.

decoweenie · 29th June 2007, 15:33

Quote: (Originally Posted by RichClark)

PS - I would have paid more for both my KISS MOD 1 & 3 if I'd be asked

NOW you tell me...

ForTheFight · 5th July 2007, 12:35

I paid 1289 (1200 for the class and 89 for books). In looking around it seems thats pretty much standard.

callelundin · 15th July 2007, 15:23

Is a newbie like me allowed to ask whats included in the class that you pay 1500$, and how many hours a day is a fullday? and how many days?

RonMicjan · 15th July 2007, 16:13

For a Meg course I charge $1500 + expenses, thats a minimum of 5 days, if the student is very prepared, most classes run to 6 or 7. If the student requests that I travel to them, student pays travel (split if there is multiple students) An exception to that is if I teach in Nanaimo, as I stay at a friends place. Additional time beyond 7 days is $200/day.

Class includes
classroom, theory, unit assembly (predive), breakdown, cleaning and maintainence

4 hours of pool time doing drills, boom, bailout, flood, DF/OL, rescue, etc

260 minutes minimum of open water time, perfecting skills, lots of swimming, pop a liftbag, maintain bouyancy and trim etc.

Review, exam and grading.

Students days are 10-12 hours, instructors days are longer : ) Expect to work hard and be pushed beyond your comfort zone.

deepnark · 15th July 2007, 16:41

[If you're happy with your choice of instructor then that's what it costs... simple as that]

i could not agree more with the above statment.training a diver on any qualification takes a lot of time and effort on all involved, and don't forget that here in the UK we have the hse boys to keep happy.

cheers
Ray

**fireman** · 15th July 2007, 16:52

teach yourself...Its free...

RonMicjan · 26th July 2007, 16:54

Quote: (Originally Posted by fireman)

teach yourself...Its free...

and then, your extensive training will be worth every penny that you paid for it!

I bet the city of chicago accepted you as a fireman straightaway when you told them you were self trained too, eh?

28th June 2007, 19:47	#11 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 2,871	Re: Cost of training for Kiss Sport Quote: (Originally Posted by Rhino_Portland_Oregon) EXACTLY !!! That is why I created this thread... I understand that this is an expensive hobby, but I had no idea what the "market price" was for instruction. Thank you to all who have PMed me. Looking at all the responses, I would say that the average price for training is $1200.00 USD. . There are Many factors that come into play to determine the cost.. You can't just look at the price alone.. A higher prices doesn't guarantee a better class, but many times discounted instruction is done for several reasons, shorter class durations, lack of instructor experience/reputation, competition (especially from those trying to gain experience), and even less overhead costs.. I would say a fair compensation would be a minimum of $300 or so a day for the instructor.. First thing to consider what certification (agency) are you getting a cert from.. Different programs have different durations.. for example ANDI's recommended pricing for our programs is $1595 (thats what I charge)... The price is based on what our MINIMUM requirements are.. on a good student that comes into the program fully prepared the fastest the class can be completed is usually 5 FULL days, other programs can be complete in 4 or fewer days.. Let me give you an example where differences are possible.. ANDI's program requires the instructor to schedule approximately 4 hours of confined watertime.. this allows the instructor to meet the 180 minutes of confined water training ANDI requires.. I know there are other agencies that only require 60 minutes of confined training.. If an instructor has to travel to the student, paying for the instructors expense is common, that why travelling instructors prefer to teach groups so that the cost can be split among several students.... Also most instructor do reduce the price when there is a group to be trained vs private or semi-private instruction.. just think how much it would cost you if you brought your car to a mechanic and he had to spend 40+ hours working on it (also remember the instructors time doesn't stop when he leave the student, there is usually alot of behnind the scenes time preparing for the next day so that everything runs smoothly).. I'll bet it will be much more than what the instructor is asking for the same amount of time.. __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated. Last edited by jradomski : 28th June 2007 at 20:42.
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28th June 2007, 21:56	#12 (permalink)
zbskii I have a diving problem. Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 134	Re: Cost of training for Kiss Sport Don't forget most agencies require advanced nitrox as well, which tacks on another ~$300. There's several very experienced instructors in the PNW including one that wrote the TDI kiss manual But the choice of instructor is a personal one, just realize you have options. -Brett Quote: (Originally Posted by Rhino_Portland_Oregon) EXACTLY !!! That is why I created this thread... I understand that this is an expensive hobby, but I had no idea what the "market price" was for instruction. Thank you to all who have PMed me. Looking at all the responses, I would say that the average price for training is $1200.00 USD. Based on that I would say that paying $1500 + the travel, lodging, and food expenses of an instructor for a week is not a fair market value. Also to assume that just because an instructor charges more for lessons that he/she is better or more qualified to instruct, is unfair to the instructors that are remaining in the "standard market pricing" structure. I have been contacted by a couple instructors here in the Pacific Northwest who are both around the $1200 price. Am I to assume that because they are not going to run me upwards of $2600 for a weeks training that I will be any less qualified to operate the unit? I think not. I have checked out their websites, and contacted some of their students, and all seems great..... Thanks again for the help here..... This forum is a great thing for a "nube" like me.
(Offline)

29th June 2007, 15:32	#13 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,510	Re: Cost of training for Kiss Sport You guys should be happy that there are so many (less expensive) choices to chose now... Back in the "old days" (circa 1999), I had to pay for 2 round-trip tickets (me + wife) to Hawaii, pay for renting a beach-front accomodations for a week, pay for eating out every night, pay for her shopping while I am taking the class, pay for car rental, etc... And pay $1,500 for the class, pay for the sorb, pay for the boat trips, etc. __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
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29th June 2007, 15:33	#14 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,510	Re: Cost of training for Kiss Sport Quote: (Originally Posted by RichClark) PS - I would have paid more for both my KISS MOD 1 & 3 if I'd be asked NOW you tell me... __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
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5th July 2007, 12:35	#15 (permalink)
ForTheFight What's a custom title? Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Dolphin Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Virginia Posts: 209	Re: Cost of training for Kiss Sport I paid 1289 (1200 for the class and 89 for books). In looking around it seems thats pretty much standard. __________________ This post may be up to 80% accurate...
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15th July 2007, 15:23	#16 (permalink)
callelundin New Member Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Simrishamn Posts: 8	Re: Cost of training for Kiss Sport Is a newbie like me allowed to ask whats included in the class that you pay 1500$, and how many hours a day is a fullday? and how many days?
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15th July 2007, 16:13	#17 (permalink)
RonMicjan Cap Ron scourge of the NW Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Dolphin Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Dolphin Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cape Disapointment, The Graveyard of the Pacific Posts: 1,082	Re: Cost of training for Kiss Sport For a Meg course I charge $1500 + expenses, thats a minimum of 5 days, if the student is very prepared, most classes run to 6 or 7. If the student requests that I travel to them, student pays travel (split if there is multiple students) An exception to that is if I teach in Nanaimo, as I stay at a friends place. Additional time beyond 7 days is $200/day. Class includes classroom, theory, unit assembly (predive), breakdown, cleaning and maintainence 4 hours of pool time doing drills, boom, bailout, flood, DF/OL, rescue, etc 260 minutes minimum of open water time, perfecting skills, lots of swimming, pop a liftbag, maintain bouyancy and trim etc. Review, exam and grading. Students days are 10-12 hours, instructors days are longer : ) Expect to work hard and be pushed beyond your comfort zone. __________________ Ron "Life is pain princess, anyone who tells you different, is selling something", The Dread Pirate Wesley. www.tmishop.com Diving bits etc.
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15th July 2007, 16:41	#18 (permalink)
deepnark Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: norfolk uk Posts: 177	Re: Cost of training for Kiss Sport [If you're happy with your choice of instructor then that's what it costs... simple as that] i could not agree more with the above statment.training a diver on any qualification takes a lot of time and effort on all involved, and don't forget that here in the UK we have the hse boys to keep happy. cheers Ray __________________ *KISS CCR INSTRUCTOR* Today is a gd day to dive http://www.kissccr.org.uk
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15th July 2007, 16:52	#19 (permalink)
fireman rEvo combat swimmer Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: chicago Posts: 493	Re: Cost of training for Kiss Sport teach yourself...Its free... __________________ Heres to you Capt. Bill Never Forget, and stay safe everyone.
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26th July 2007, 16:54	#20 (permalink)
RonMicjan Cap Ron scourge of the NW Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Dolphin Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Dolphin Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cape Disapointment, The Graveyard of the Pacific Posts: 1,082	Re: Cost of training for Kiss Sport Quote: (Originally Posted by fireman) teach yourself...Its free... and then, your extensive training will be worth every penny that you paid for it! I bet the city of chicago accepted you as a fireman straightaway when you told them you were self trained too, eh? __________________ Ron "Life is pain princess, anyone who tells you different, is selling something", The Dread Pirate Wesley. www.tmishop.com Diving bits etc.
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