KISS ADV prob

spike jackson · 28th March 2007, 17:15

Hi guys
HAd an interesting one last week in the Red Sea - I've been battling with keeping the pO2's down on my KISS despite winding the interstage pressure WAY down (6 Bar in the end!) which is probably a problem in the manual add valve. I haven't got to looking at it yet cause I don't have an imperial allen key the right size. But due to this on a dive to 30m (Thistlegorm, Red Sea) the pO2 was creeping up constantly and I was doing multiple dill flushes to try to keep it down when without warning the ADV failed shut - ie exhaled full breath through nose, tried to draw fresh dil through ADV and nothing doing. On the surface after the dive I tried again but couldn't get the adv to fire either by inhaling or by pushing the button. I opened it up and did not find anything obviously wrong, once reassembled it started freeflowing which I solved by looseing off the screws a tiny bit, it now seems to be working ok though seems a little "tighter" than it did before, this may be my imagination though!
So - any ideas what may have caused this? Is this likely to be a prob again?

Digger · 28th March 2007, 17:24

I have had a similar prob with my MAV recently. I had to wind the IP down to 7.5 bar from the previous 12 bar. All a bit of a pain in the arse.

WHat valve have you got? Has anyone got a photo of the components of the old style barrel metal valve in order? There seems to be nothing to it really, but just want to see what everything should look like.

Spike, I got a CD of stripping and rebuilding the major components of the unit from Dave. I think it is a widely available CD, basically Gordon going through it.

Digs.

silentscuba · 28th March 2007, 17:47

Quote: (Originally Posted by spike jackson)

Hi guys
HAd an interesting one last week in the Red Sea - I've been battling with keeping the pO2's down on my KISS despite winding the interstage pressure WAY down (6 Bar in the end!) which is probably a problem in the manual add valve. I haven't got to looking at it yet cause I don't have an imperial allen key the right size. But due to this on a dive to 30m (Thistlegorm, Red Sea) the pO2 was creeping up constantly and I was doing multiple dill flushes to try to keep it down when without warning the ADV failed shut - ie exhaled full breath through nose, tried to draw fresh dil through ADV and nothing doing. On the surface after the dive I tried again but couldn't get the adv to fire either by inhaling or by pushing the button. I opened it up and did not find anything obviously wrong, once reassembled it started freeflowing which I solved by looseing off the screws a tiny bit, it now seems to be working ok though seems a little "tighter" than it did before, this may be my imagination though!
So - any ideas what may have caused this? Is this likely to be a prob again?

If you have the older stainless 02 add valve, they can start leaking 02 past the o-rings and cause your PPO2 to creep up.

You can fix that problem by changing out the o-rings and lubricating the internal barrel.

What I have found with mine is that the inside of the barrel is a little rough and wears out the o-rings. I have had to rebuild mine several times. The newer plastic O2 add valves do not seem to have that problem.

The constant flow thru the valve should be .7-.8 liters/min and you should measure what yours is doing with a flow meter.

spike jackson · 28th March 2007, 17:49

Thanks for the replies - Dave sent me a copy of the DVD and I'll have a look at that before stripping the O2 valve (it is the stainless one) but tbh the ADV problem seems the bigger concern to me.

cys · 28th March 2007, 17:52

Quote: (Originally Posted by spike jackson)

Hi guys
... without warning the ADV failed shut - ie exhaled full breath through nose, tried to draw fresh dil through ADV and nothing doing. On the surface after the dive I tried again but couldn't get the adv to fire either by inhaling or by pushing the button. I opened it up and did not find anything obviously wrong, once reassembled it started freeflowing which I solved by looseing off the screws a tiny bit, it now seems to be working ok though seems a little "tighter" than it did before, this may be my imagination though!
So - any ideas what may have caused this? Is this likely to be a prob again?

I would check the IP on your diluent 1st stage.

Sutty · 28th March 2007, 17:56

I don't know which version of ADV you have, but could be that the O-ring that seals agaist the stem has become un-glued (see the CD).

Neil

spike jackson · 28th March 2007, 18:21

Quote: (Originally Posted by cys)

I would check the IP on your diluent 1st stage.

I did - after the following dive when my paragon reg started to freeflow (I did NOT have a good week diving wise!) - the IP was creeping to 15 bar ie the Hp seat is failing. I can understand this causing the ADV to freeflow but would it cause it to jam shut?

Thanks Sutty - will have a look at the CD for that too.

Digger · 28th March 2007, 18:36

Well a high IP would increase the downwards pressure on the top of the ADV, so it would be harder to tip over using the lever on in the mechanism. So in theory yes, it could stop it. Sounds like this might be the problem.

Digs.

silentscuba · 28th March 2007, 19:08

Quote: (Originally Posted by spike jackson)

Thanks for the replies - Dave sent me a copy of the DVD and I'll have a look at that before stripping the O2 valve (it is the stainless one) but tbh the ADV problem seems the bigger concern to me.

It sounds like you have two problems, the ADV not working properly and an O2 leak in your O2 valve or 1st stage IP to high.

Philippe GERIN · 28th March 2007, 19:24

Quote: (Originally Posted by silentscuba)

It sounds like you have two problems, the ADV not working properly and an O2 leak in your O2 valve or 1st stage IP to high.

I second that. in this case I would have the first stage rebuilt, the O2 MAV as well. It seems that you already fixed the problem with the ADV, but would upgrade to new stem if you have the old one with the o-ring.
Best
Philippe

28th March 2007, 17:15	#1 (permalink)
spike jackson New Member Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 28	KISS ADV prob Hi guys HAd an interesting one last week in the Red Sea - I've been battling with keeping the pO2's down on my KISS despite winding the interstage pressure WAY down (6 Bar in the end!) which is probably a problem in the manual add valve. I haven't got to looking at it yet cause I don't have an imperial allen key the right size. But due to this on a dive to 30m (Thistlegorm, Red Sea) the pO2 was creeping up constantly and I was doing multiple dill flushes to try to keep it down when without warning the ADV failed shut - ie exhaled full breath through nose, tried to draw fresh dil through ADV and nothing doing. On the surface after the dive I tried again but couldn't get the adv to fire either by inhaling or by pushing the button. I opened it up and did not find anything obviously wrong, once reassembled it started freeflowing which I solved by looseing off the screws a tiny bit, it now seems to be working ok though seems a little "tighter" than it did before, this may be my imagination though! So - any ideas what may have caused this? Is this likely to be a prob again?
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28th March 2007, 17:24	#2 (permalink)
Digger Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Classic Kiss Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Midlands UK Posts: 196	Re: KISS ADV prob I have had a similar prob with my MAV recently. I had to wind the IP down to 7.5 bar from the previous 12 bar. All a bit of a pain in the arse. WHat valve have you got? Has anyone got a photo of the components of the old style barrel metal valve in order? There seems to be nothing to it really, but just want to see what everything should look like. Spike, I got a CD of stripping and rebuilding the major components of the unit from Dave. I think it is a widely available CD, basically Gordon going through it. Digs.
(Offline)

28th March 2007, 17:47	#3 (permalink)
silentscuba rEvo CCR Driver Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss rEvo Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic rEvo Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Mill Creek, WA USA Posts: 586	Re: KISS ADV prob Quote: (Originally Posted by spike jackson) Hi guys HAd an interesting one last week in the Red Sea - I've been battling with keeping the pO2's down on my KISS despite winding the interstage pressure WAY down (6 Bar in the end!) which is probably a problem in the manual add valve. I haven't got to looking at it yet cause I don't have an imperial allen key the right size. But due to this on a dive to 30m (Thistlegorm, Red Sea) the pO2 was creeping up constantly and I was doing multiple dill flushes to try to keep it down when without warning the ADV failed shut - ie exhaled full breath through nose, tried to draw fresh dil through ADV and nothing doing. On the surface after the dive I tried again but couldn't get the adv to fire either by inhaling or by pushing the button. I opened it up and did not find anything obviously wrong, once reassembled it started freeflowing which I solved by looseing off the screws a tiny bit, it now seems to be working ok though seems a little "tighter" than it did before, this may be my imagination though! So - any ideas what may have caused this? Is this likely to be a prob again? If you have the older stainless 02 add valve, they can start leaking 02 past the o-rings and cause your PPO2 to creep up. You can fix that problem by changing out the o-rings and lubricating the internal barrel. What I have found with mine is that the inside of the barrel is a little rough and wears out the o-rings. I have had to rebuild mine several times. The newer plastic O2 add valves do not seem to have that problem. The constant flow thru the valve should be .7-.8 liters/min and you should measure what yours is doing with a flow meter. __________________ Curt McNamee rEvo CCR Diver KISS CCR Diver www.silentscuba.com
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28th March 2007, 17:49	#4 (permalink)
spike jackson New Member Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 28	Re: KISS ADV prob Thanks for the replies - Dave sent me a copy of the DVD and I'll have a look at that before stripping the O2 valve (it is the stainless one) but tbh the ADV problem seems the bigger concern to me.
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28th March 2007, 17:52	#5 (permalink)
cys ck #157 Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: S. California Posts: 204	Re: KISS ADV prob Quote: (Originally Posted by spike jackson) Hi guys ... without warning the ADV failed shut - ie exhaled full breath through nose, tried to draw fresh dil through ADV and nothing doing. On the surface after the dive I tried again but couldn't get the adv to fire either by inhaling or by pushing the button. I opened it up and did not find anything obviously wrong, once reassembled it started freeflowing which I solved by looseing off the screws a tiny bit, it now seems to be working ok though seems a little "tighter" than it did before, this may be my imagination though! So - any ideas what may have caused this? Is this likely to be a prob again? I would check the IP on your diluent 1st stage.
(Offline)

28th March 2007, 17:56	#6 (permalink)
Sutty Classic Kiss diver Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Glossop, Derbyshire, UK Posts: 800	Re: KISS ADV prob I don't know which version of ADV you have, but could be that the O-ring that seals agaist the stem has become un-glued (see the CD). Neil __________________ Never forget that life is a finite resource.
(Online)

28th March 2007, 18:21	#7 (permalink)
spike jackson New Member Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 28	Re: KISS ADV prob Quote: (Originally Posted by cys) I would check the IP on your diluent 1st stage. I did - after the following dive when my paragon reg started to freeflow (I did NOT have a good week diving wise!) - the IP was creeping to 15 bar ie the Hp seat is failing. I can understand this causing the ADV to freeflow but would it cause it to jam shut? Thanks Sutty - will have a look at the CD for that too.
(Offline)

28th March 2007, 18:36	#8 (permalink)
Digger Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Inspiration Classic Classic Kiss Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Midlands UK Posts: 196	Re: KISS ADV prob Well a high IP would increase the downwards pressure on the top of the ADV, so it would be harder to tip over using the lever on in the mechanism. So in theory yes, it could stop it. Sounds like this might be the problem. Digs.
(Offline)

28th March 2007, 19:08	#9 (permalink)
silentscuba rEvo CCR Driver Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss rEvo Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic rEvo Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Mill Creek, WA USA Posts: 586	Re: KISS ADV prob Quote: (Originally Posted by spike jackson) Thanks for the replies - Dave sent me a copy of the DVD and I'll have a look at that before stripping the O2 valve (it is the stainless one) but tbh the ADV problem seems the bigger concern to me. It sounds like you have two problems, the ADV not working properly and an O2 leak in your O2 valve or 1st stage IP to high. __________________ Curt McNamee rEvo CCR Diver KISS CCR Diver www.silentscuba.com
(Offline)

28th March 2007, 19:24	#10 (permalink)
Philippe GERIN ccr apprentice Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2005 Location: Strasbourg, France Posts: 636	Re: KISS ADV prob Quote: (Originally Posted by silentscuba) It sounds like you have two problems, the ADV not working properly and an O2 leak in your O2 valve or 1st stage IP to high. I second that. in this case I would have the first stage rebuilt, the O2 MAV as well. It seems that you already fixed the problem with the ADV, but would upgrade to new stem if you have the old one with the o-ring. Best Philippe
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