Rebreathers and the Divers Alert Network (DAN)

Richard Vann · 31st October 2006, 14:19

DAN is planning a Technical Diving Conference for January 2008, and rebreathers will play an important role. For both technical and rebreather diving, however, there is a serious lack of empirical data on which analysis and conclusions might be based. This message is a request for rebreather divers to submit data. Here is what's needed.

Digitally recorded dive profiles (with indications of gas mixes and switches) and medical outcomes are essential. We need both no-outcome dives and dives with symptoms. Please report any and all symptoms before, during, and after diving. Naturally, symptoms that might be diving-related are of greatest interest (narcosis, HPNS, O2 toxcity, AGE, DCS, cold, hot, etc.), but it is best to report everything without attempting diagnosis.

Most dives will have been incident-free. Good, we need to have these so we can learn what works. We also would like to know about incidents that did not result in injury. What broke, what went wrong, what did you do to get out of trouble? Digital dive profiles should be part of the indicent descriptions.

Case reports with as much patient description and medical documentation as possible are really important. We are particularly interested in the use of surface oxygen and in-water recompression for DCS/AGE. Does anyone have experience with portable chambers? Please don't limit yourself to DCS and AGE. Tell us about hypothermia or anything else that might be relevant. Don't forget the digital dive profiles so we can investigate the relationships between dive profile, breathing mixes, and outcome.

Technical and rebreather diving are mysterious because there is no systematic reporting process, and tech diving chamber studies are rare, if not non-existent. I guess one reason reporting is rare is that technical and rebreather divers would rather dive than collect data. That's understandable, but the mystery will continue as long as it remains so.

Dick Vann
Research Director
Divers Alert Network

RebreatherNut · 31st October 2006, 14:38

Dick,
Welcome to Rebreatherworld.com

That Tech-Diving Conference in 2008 from DAN sounds very interesting.

Glad to have you on board, and again Welcome

Best,
RBN

Benthic · 31st October 2006, 15:32

Quote: (Originally Posted by Richard Vann)

DAN is planning a Technical Diving Conference for January 2008, and rebreathers will play an important role. For both technical and rebreather diving, however, there is a serious lack of empirical data on which analysis and conclusions might be based. This message is a request for rebreather divers to submit data. Here is what's needed.

Digitally recorded dive profiles (with indications of gas mixes and switches) and medical outcomes are essential. We need both no-outcome dives and dives with symptoms. Please report any and all symptoms before, during, and after diving. Naturally, symptoms that might be diving-related are of greatest interest (narcosis, HPNS, O2 toxcity, AGE, DCS, cold, hot, etc.), but it is best to report everything without attempting diagnosis.

Most dives will have been incident-free. Good, we need to have these so we can learn what works. We also would like to know about incidents that did not result in injury. What broke, what went wrong, what did you do to get out of trouble? Digital dive profiles should be part of the indicent descriptions.

Case reports with as much patient description and medical documentation as possible are really important. We are particularly interested in the use of surface oxygen and in-water recompression for DCS/AGE. Does anyone have experience with portable chambers? Please don't limit yourself to DCS and AGE. Tell us about hypothermia or anything else that might be relevant. Don't forget the digital dive profiles so we can investigate the relationships between dive profile, breathing mixes, and outcome.

Technical and rebreather diving are mysterious because there is no systematic reporting process, and tech diving chamber studies are rare, if not non-existent. I guess one reason reporting is rare is that technical and rebreather divers would rather dive than collect data. That's understandable, but the mystery will continue as long as it remains so.

Dick Vann
Research Director
Divers Alert Network

Dick,

Great to see you here! I for one, am very glad to see DAN's interest in technical and Rebreather dive profiles. Could you provide a bit more information on how you'd like to see dive profiles submitted? Are you thinking of asking us to submit through Project Dive Exploration (PDE), or do you have some other vehicle in mind. Since I made the switch to a rebreather, I've been carrying a Sensus data recorder so I've got all the profile information. I haven't been overly religious about noting gas mixes, but I could start. What other diver parameters would you need? Set points? Set point switches? If you'll let us know, Heather and I would be happy to collect whatever information you want from the dives we do.

Brian

mbelair · 31st October 2006, 15:32

Quote: (Originally Posted by Richard Vann)

Technical and rebreather diving are mysterious because there is no systematic reporting process, and tech diving chamber studies are rare, if not non-existent. I guess one reason reporting is rare is that technical and rebreather divers would rather dive than collect data. That's understandable, but the mystery will continue as long as it remains so.

Dick Vann
Research Director
Divers Alert Network

Hello Dick

Right now as a nonrebreather diver, I am sending my OC data using my Nitek He and the Nitek Logic user friendly interface.

BUT since getting a VR3, I am basically diving the it's VPM algo and tables. The Nitek follows mostly as a data transfer tool (at the price these are being sold today, I don't see any point in giving it away anyways.)

In april I should be getting my Meg and then data transfer wise, I think things will be more complicated. I do not think the the Meg has data transfer capability.

As for the VR3, for a while there there was a transfer program available that I never managed to get to work and apparently it is not a priority for Delta-P since they removed the link to the program that was on their web page.

I have exchanged a few emails with Lisa Lee on the subject and she was supposed to check with Delta-P and get back to me in case of a positive outcome... No news yet and actually, it is after this that Delta-P removed their link.

So my point is how can DAN make it easier for me to send my data next spring?

I've have sent some details using your DAS program but I am sorry to say that it is a PITA for technical dives. One REALLY needs to be motivated to go through with it.

rossh · 31st October 2006, 17:32

A quick plug for the Shearwater computer and the my associated Divelog program. This has the DAN PDE fully intergrated into the Divelog program (level 3), and will submit a full report to DAN for this study.

Regards
Ross Hemingway
Shearwater Dive log

**RichClark** · 1st November 2006, 07:52

Quote: (Originally Posted by rossh)

A quick plug for the Shearwater computer and the my associated Divelog program. This has the DAN PDE fully intergrated into the Divelog program (level 3), and will submit a full report to DAN for this study.

Regards
Ross Hemingway
Shearwater Dive log

Nice! I was just thinking about that when I read the OP. I haven't had the chance to play around with the divelog program yet, but will certainly do so.

Cheers

Rich

6Gill · 1st November 2006, 11:12

Quote: (Originally Posted by rossh)

A quick plug for the Shearwater computer and the my associated Divelog program. This has the DAN PDE fully intergrated into the Divelog program (level 3), and will submit a full report to DAN for this study.

Regards
Ross Hemingway
Shearwater Dive log

[/shameless plug on]

I can vouch for Ross's program and the Shearwater, works well and with IR transfer no worries about where you left the cable laying about. Now if we all bug Ross to expand his software a bit.....

[/shameless plug off]

31st October 2006, 14:19	#1 (permalink)
Richard Vann New Member Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Other SCR Other Rebreather/s: Other SCR Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Durham, NC Posts: 1	Rebreathers and the Divers Alert Network (DAN) DAN is planning a Technical Diving Conference for January 2008, and rebreathers will play an important role. For both technical and rebreather diving, however, there is a serious lack of empirical data on which analysis and conclusions might be based. This message is a request for rebreather divers to submit data. Here is what's needed. Digitally recorded dive profiles (with indications of gas mixes and switches) and medical outcomes are essential. We need both no-outcome dives and dives with symptoms. Please report any and all symptoms before, during, and after diving. Naturally, symptoms that might be diving-related are of greatest interest (narcosis, HPNS, O2 toxcity, AGE, DCS, cold, hot, etc.), but it is best to report everything without attempting diagnosis. Most dives will have been incident-free. Good, we need to have these so we can learn what works. We also would like to know about incidents that did not result in injury. What broke, what went wrong, what did you do to get out of trouble? Digital dive profiles should be part of the indicent descriptions. Case reports with as much patient description and medical documentation as possible are really important. We are particularly interested in the use of surface oxygen and in-water recompression for DCS/AGE. Does anyone have experience with portable chambers? Please don't limit yourself to DCS and AGE. Tell us about hypothermia or anything else that might be relevant. Don't forget the digital dive profiles so we can investigate the relationships between dive profile, breathing mixes, and outcome. Technical and rebreather diving are mysterious because there is no systematic reporting process, and tech diving chamber studies are rare, if not non-existent. I guess one reason reporting is rare is that technical and rebreather divers would rather dive than collect data. That's understandable, but the mystery will continue as long as it remains so. Dick Vann Research Director Divers Alert Network
(Offline)

31st October 2006, 14:38	#2 (permalink)
RebreatherNut Rebreather World Greeter Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Ray Other Rebreather/s: Ray Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Pacific Northwest Posts: 685	Re: Rebreathers and the Divers Alert Network (DAN) Dick, Welcome to Rebreatherworld.com That Tech-Diving Conference in 2008 from DAN sounds very interesting. Glad to have you on board, and again Welcome Best, RBN __________________ "One minute to go, Luck-meister! Then I'll be down on you like a buzzard on a gut wagon." - ALF
(Offline)

31st October 2006, 15:32	#3 (permalink)
Benthic MEGalomaniac Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Pensacola, FL USA Posts: 222	Re: Rebreathers and the Divers Alert Network (DAN) Quote: (Originally Posted by Richard Vann) DAN is planning a Technical Diving Conference for January 2008, and rebreathers will play an important role. For both technical and rebreather diving, however, there is a serious lack of empirical data on which analysis and conclusions might be based. This message is a request for rebreather divers to submit data. Here is what's needed. Digitally recorded dive profiles (with indications of gas mixes and switches) and medical outcomes are essential. We need both no-outcome dives and dives with symptoms. Please report any and all symptoms before, during, and after diving. Naturally, symptoms that might be diving-related are of greatest interest (narcosis, HPNS, O2 toxcity, AGE, DCS, cold, hot, etc.), but it is best to report everything without attempting diagnosis. Most dives will have been incident-free. Good, we need to have these so we can learn what works. We also would like to know about incidents that did not result in injury. What broke, what went wrong, what did you do to get out of trouble? Digital dive profiles should be part of the indicent descriptions. Case reports with as much patient description and medical documentation as possible are really important. We are particularly interested in the use of surface oxygen and in-water recompression for DCS/AGE. Does anyone have experience with portable chambers? Please don't limit yourself to DCS and AGE. Tell us about hypothermia or anything else that might be relevant. Don't forget the digital dive profiles so we can investigate the relationships between dive profile, breathing mixes, and outcome. Technical and rebreather diving are mysterious because there is no systematic reporting process, and tech diving chamber studies are rare, if not non-existent. I guess one reason reporting is rare is that technical and rebreather divers would rather dive than collect data. That's understandable, but the mystery will continue as long as it remains so. Dick Vann Research Director Divers Alert Network Dick, Great to see you here! I for one, am very glad to see DAN's interest in technical and Rebreather dive profiles. Could you provide a bit more information on how you'd like to see dive profiles submitted? Are you thinking of asking us to submit through Project Dive Exploration (PDE), or do you have some other vehicle in mind. Since I made the switch to a rebreather, I've been carrying a Sensus data recorder so I've got all the profile information. I haven't been overly religious about noting gas mixes, but I could start. What other diver parameters would you need? Set points? Set point switches? If you'll let us know, Heather and I would be happy to collect whatever information you want from the dives we do. Brian __________________ Well lit rooms will not repel determined beer ninjas.
(Offline)

31st October 2006, 15:32	#4 (permalink)
mbelair New Member Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Montreal Posts: 81	Re: Rebreathers and the Divers Alert Network (DAN) Quote: (Originally Posted by Richard Vann) Technical and rebreather diving are mysterious because there is no systematic reporting process, and tech diving chamber studies are rare, if not non-existent. I guess one reason reporting is rare is that technical and rebreather divers would rather dive than collect data. That's understandable, but the mystery will continue as long as it remains so. Dick Vann Research Director Divers Alert Network Hello Dick Right now as a nonrebreather diver, I am sending my OC data using my Nitek He and the Nitek Logic user friendly interface. BUT since getting a VR3, I am basically diving the it's VPM algo and tables. The Nitek follows mostly as a data transfer tool (at the price these are being sold today, I don't see any point in giving it away anyways.) In april I should be getting my Meg and then data transfer wise, I think things will be more complicated. I do not think the the Meg has data transfer capability. As for the VR3, for a while there there was a transfer program available that I never managed to get to work and apparently it is not a priority for Delta-P since they removed the link to the program that was on their web page. I have exchanged a few emails with Lisa Lee on the subject and she was supposed to check with Delta-P and get back to me in case of a positive outcome... No news yet and actually, it is after this that Delta-P removed their link. So my point is how can DAN make it easier for me to send my data next spring? I've have sent some details using your DAS program but I am sorry to say that it is a PITA for technical dives. One REALLY needs to be motivated to go through with it. __________________ Marc
(Offline)

31st October 2006, 17:32	#5 (permalink)
rossh Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Canada Posts: 106	Re: Rebreathers and the Divers Alert Network (DAN) A quick plug for the Shearwater computer and the my associated Divelog program. This has the DAN PDE fully intergrated into the Divelog program (level 3), and will submit a full report to DAN for this study. Regards Ross Hemingway Shearwater Dive log
(Offline)

1st November 2006, 07:52	#6 (permalink)
RichClark Classic KISS No. 226 Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Hove, UK Posts: 771	Re: Rebreathers and the Divers Alert Network (DAN) Quote: (Originally Posted by rossh) A quick plug for the Shearwater computer and the my associated Divelog program. This has the DAN PDE fully intergrated into the Divelog program (level 3), and will submit a full report to DAN for this study. Regards Ross Hemingway Shearwater Dive log Nice! I was just thinking about that when I read the OP. I haven't had the chance to play around with the divelog program yet, but will certainly do so. Cheers Rich __________________ The more I learn about women, the more I want to go diving... just don't tell my wife I said that To taste something a little different, try http://www.thechillikitchen.co.uk
(Offline)

1st November 2006, 11:12	#7 (permalink)
6Gill Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 116	Re: Rebreathers and the Divers Alert Network (DAN) Quote: (Originally Posted by rossh) A quick plug for the Shearwater computer and the my associated Divelog program. This has the DAN PDE fully intergrated into the Divelog program (level 3), and will submit a full report to DAN for this study. Regards Ross Hemingway Shearwater Dive log [/shameless plug on] I can vouch for Ross's program and the Shearwater, works well and with IR transfer no worries about where you left the cable laying about. Now if we all bug Ross to expand his software a bit..... [/shameless plug off] __________________ "It's a shame ignorance isn't painful!"
(Offline)

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